Author Topic: First Stone Pie!  (Read 806 times)

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Offline PiedPiper

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First Stone Pie!
« on: April 15, 2011, 12:18:01 PM »
   So I spend a lot of time lurking in the boardwalk pizza thread, which is my idea of a perfect pie since I grew up 10 minutes away from ocean city.  Since then I have moved a few times and only get back to NJ about once a year and Macks is always among one of my first stops.  Lately tho, I have fallen into the rut of making my same ole dough with the same ole pan pizza taste (its actually pretty good so i keep making it the same way  :-D) and  have forgotten about trying to make a boardwalk style pizza... Until yesterday when I saw pics of pete-zza's Macks clone!
   His dough recipie called for a 91 hour ferment but I couldnt wait so I split the dough in half for a second pizza on sat/sunday!  I have also been a bit hesitant to use my 12" stone cause of the transfer but knew it most likely wouldn't come out the same if cooked it in a pan, so I put on my big boy pants and decided to try the parchment transfer method.  Well the transfer went beautiful, and after about 5 minutes i was easy able to pull the parchment paper out!  I had a little trouble with the dismount, but next time ill know not to put my stone so far back in the oven...............  Anyway sure glad this attempt didnt turn out like my 1st attempt (pizza turnover!)


Offline norma427

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Re: First Stone Pie!
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2011, 05:15:04 PM »
PiedPiper,

Your first stone pie looks good!  :) Since you posted you used Peter’s formula, do you remember which one it was?  If it was on the boardwalk thread, I would think the dough would be easy to handle.  Good to hear you put on your “big boy pants” and used the parchment paper transfer to your pizza stone and it worked well.

Nice job!

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline PiedPiper

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Re: First Stone Pie!
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2011, 06:12:43 PM »
PiedPiper,

Your first stone pie looks good!  :) Since you posted you used Peter’s formula, do you remember which one it was?  If it was on the boardwalk thread, I would think the dough would be easy to handle.  Good to hear you put on your “big boy pants” and used the parchment paper transfer to your pizza stone and it worked well.

Nice job!

Norma


Thanks! The recipe was his latest attempt at a M&M dough found here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg99472.html#msg99472  the dough handled great for me and with the exception of one tear (my fault for stretching it to far and too fast) forming my skin went smooth as pie! (pun intended).  It was a bit more chewy than a M&M crust from what I can remember, but im thinking that was either from me over cooking my pizza, or from forgetting to add the VWG to my flour mix and instead having to knead it into the dough.  Im actually fighting the urge to make another pie tonight to see if it was cause I over cooked it! All-in-All a great dough!!!! and i will be replacing it for my standard dough  :chef:

Online Pete-zza

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Re: First Stone Pie!
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2011, 06:48:44 PM »
PiedPiper,

Your pizzas will only get better with practice. In due course, you might get a larger stone so that you don't have to try to mount a 12" pizza onto a 12" stone without going over the edge. Actually, if you used half of the amount of dough that I used in the post you mentioned, at Reply 307 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg99472.html#msg99472, the corresponding pizza size to maintain the same crust characteristics as the 18" size is equal to 2 times the square root of (21.11/2)/(3.14159 x 0.08252), or 12.8" (a bit over 12 3/4"). Anything smaller than that will have a thicker crust. To get around this, I would use the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to come up with the amounts of ingredients to use to make one or more 12" pizzas. That should get you a bit closer to a Mack's clone. While you are at it, I think I would use Norma's latest baker's percents since they seemed to work out quite well. If you need help with the changes, let me know what size and number of dough balls you would like to make. A point to keep in mind is that a small pizza bakes up somewhat differently than a much larger pizza, so some adjustment of bake time and temperature may be needed to get comparable results when you go to the smaller size. I tried avoiding doing this by sticking with the 18" size, even with my home oven. Of course, I had to use a stone and screen to do this and I had to take measures to keep the cheddar cheese from oiling off too much.

I couldn't remember using a 91 hour fermentation period as you mentioned in your first post above. I believe that the clone dough formulation at Reply 307 referenced above was like an earlier one with a bit over 72 hours of fermentation. For Norma's last effort, we increased the amount of yeast so as to shorten the fermentation time, yet still being able to go out to a few days of cold fermentation if desired.

Peter


Offline PiedPiper

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Re: First Stone Pie!
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2011, 09:42:37 AM »
PiedPiper,

Your pizzas will only get better with practice. In due course, you might get a larger stone so that you don't have to try to mount a 12" pizza onto a 12" stone without going over the edge. Actually, if you used half of the amount of dough that I used in the post you mentioned, at Reply 307 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg99472.html#msg99472, the corresponding pizza size to maintain the same crust characteristics as the 18" size is equal to 2 times the square root of (21.11/2)/(3.14159 x 0.08252), or 12.8" (a bit over 12 3/4"). Anything smaller than that will have a thicker crust. To get around this, I would use the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to come up with the amounts of ingredients to use to make one or more 12" pizzas. That should get you a bit closer to a Mack's clone. While you are at it, I think I would use Norma's latest baker's percents since they seemed to work out quite well. If you need help with the changes, let me know what size and number of dough balls you would like to make. A point to keep in mind is that a small pizza bakes up somewhat differently than a much larger pizza, so some adjustment of bake time and temperature may be needed to get comparable results when you go to the smaller size. I tried avoiding doing this by sticking with the 18" size, even with my home oven. Of course, I had to use a stone and screen to do this and I had to take measures to keep the cheddar cheese from oiling off too much.

I couldn't remember using a 91 hour fermentation period as you mentioned in your first post above. I believe that the clone dough formulation at Reply 307 referenced above was like an earlier one with a bit over 72 hours of fermentation. For Norma's last effort, we increased the amount of yeast so as to shorten the fermentation time, yet still being able to go out to a few days of cold fermentation if desired.

Peter




I think the biggest stone my oven could hold is a 14" and even that will be questionable!  We will be moving next May tho so once we get where we are going a bigger stone will be the first thing on my list!  If you can help with the conversions to convert this recipie:

KABF/VWG Blend* (100%):
Water (55%):
IDY (0.20%):
Salt (2%):
Olive Oil (5%):
Sugar (1.5%):
Total (163.7%):
   367.32 g  |  12.96 oz | 0.81 lbs
202.03 g  |  7.13 oz | 0.45 lbs
0.73 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.24 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
7.35 g | 0.26 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.32 tsp | 0.44 tbsp
18.37 g | 0.65 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.08 tsp | 1.36 tbsp
5.51 g | 0.19 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.38 tsp | 0.46 tbsp
601.3 g | 21.21 oz | 1.33 lbs | TF = N/A
* The KABF/VWG Blend comprises 356.71 grams (12.58 ounces) of King Arthur Bread flour and 10.61 grams (0.37 ounces) of Hodgson Mill vital wheat gluten (a bit more than 3 ˝ t.), based on a total protein content of 14.2% and using the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/
Note: Dough is for a single 18” inch pizza; the corresponding nominal thickness factor = 0.08252; bowl residue compensation = 1%


into (2) 12" pizzas it would be greatly appreciated (im assuming for 1 dough ball id just cut the recipe in half correct?).  Also here is your 91 hour ferment quote from post 307, could this have been a typeo?

The photos below show the results of my latest effort to make a Mack’s clone pizza. The major differences from the last effort were the following: 1) the dough ball weight was increased to 21 ounces, 2) the hydration was lowered to 55%, 3) the oil (I used olive oil this time) was increased to 5%, 4) the dough was used after 91 hours of cold fermentation (I extended this period by using ice cold water in making the dough), and 5) I used about 12 ounces of cheese and about 7 ounces of sauce.

 


I also couldnt wait and wound up cooking up the second dough, even at only a 24 hour ferment I was really impressed at the flavor it produced in that short time.  The dough was slightly harder to work with (but im assuming that was from not letting it warm enough) so out came the rolling pin, which did make for a nice flat bread pizza!

« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 09:50:44 AM by PiedPiper »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: First Stone Pie!
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2011, 05:48:06 PM »
PiedPiper,

I used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html and the Mixed Mass Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ to come up with the following dough formulation as you requested:

KABF/VWG Blend* (100%):
Water (55%):
IDY (0.20%):
Salt (2%):
Olive Oil (5%):
Sugar (1.5%):
Total (163.7%):
Single Ball:
326.49 g  |  11.52 oz | 0.72 lbs
179.57 g  |  6.33 oz | 0.4 lbs
0.65 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.22 tsp | 0.07 tbsp
6.53 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.17 tsp | 0.39 tbsp
16.32 g | 0.58 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.63 tsp | 1.21 tbsp
4.9 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.23 tsp | 0.41 tbsp
534.46 g | 18.85 oz | 1.18 lbs | TF = 0.0833452
267.23 g | 9.43 oz | 0.59 lbs
* The KABF/VWG Blend comprises 317.40 grams (11.20 ounces) of King Arthur bread flour (KABF) and 9.09 grams (0.32 ounces) of Hodgson Mill vital wheat gluten (3 t.), based on a total protein content of 14.2% and using the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/
Note: Dough is for two 12” inch pizzas; the corresponding nominal thickness factor = 0.08252; bowl residue compensation = 1%

You are correct that the total dough ball (18.85 ounces) should be divided in half to make two 12" pizzas.

If at some time you would like to try Norma's latest version of the Mack's clone, but using the KABF/Hodgson Mill VWG blend, here is the dough formulation, also for two 12" pizzas:

KABF/VWG Blend* (100%):
Water (53%):
IDY (0.30%):
Salt (2.3%):
Canola Oil (5%):
Sugar (1.5%):
Total (162.1%):
Single Ball:
331.34 g  |  11.69 oz | 0.73 lbs
175.61 g  |  6.19 oz | 0.39 lbs
0.99 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.33 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
7.62 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.37 tsp | 0.46 tbsp
16.57 g | 0.58 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.65 tsp | 1.22 tbsp
4.97 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.25 tsp | 0.42 tbsp
537.11 g | 18.95 oz | 1.18 lbs | TF = 0.0837578
268.55 g | 9.47 oz | 0.59 lbs
* The KABF/VWG Blend comprises 322.12 grams (11.69 ounces) of King Arthur bread flour (KABF) and 9.22 grams (0.37 ounces) of Hodgson Mill vital wheat gluten (about 3 1/8 t.), based on a total protein content of 14.2% and using the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/
Note: Dough is for two 12” inch pizzas; the corresponding nominal thickness factor = 0.08252; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

Norma has indicated that she plans to try soybean oil in lieu of the canola oil at some point but you can use just about any of the oils (olive oil, canola oil or soybean oil). Volumetrically, the amounts are almost indistinguishable.

You are indeed correct about the 91 hour fermentation period. I had used a small amount of yeast, along with cold water, in order to extend the fermentation window. I subsequently suggested to Norma that the amount of yeast be increased in order to shorten the fermentation window. We really don't know at this point how long Mack's uses as a fermentation window. However, I like the flexibility of the long fermentation window for a home application.

Peter




Offline PiedPiper

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Re: First Stone Pie!
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2011, 06:43:12 PM »
You are the man as usual Pete-zza thank you!!  im gonna make me a dough tonight for monday/tuesday.   :chef:


update:  each dough ball came out only 2 grams off, i think thats pretty good for someone whos scale only weighs to the closest gram!  MAN, I CANT WAIT!
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 10:51:34 PM by PiedPiper »


 

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