I like sauce but I hate soggy pizza! Suggestions please!

[pizzamagic]

I like to use a fair amount of sauce on my pizza. If I do this without first prebaking the dough for 2 mins( in a 500 degree preheated oven and fibrament stone), the crust gets soggy. If I pre bake the crust for 2 minutes, the crust is crispy but gets a little charred on the bottom. The total cooking time turns out to be about 9 minutes- 2 pre bake, 5 bake with toppings, turn and cook for 2 minutes. How can I use a fair amount of sauce without the 2 minute pre bake of the crust? I am using KAAP flour and hydration percentages of 55 and 60%. I strain the excess water from whatever sauce I use be it blended and spiced plum tomatoes or a bottle mix.

[Pete-zza]

pizzamagic,

If you aren't already doing so, a simple first step would be to brush the surface of the dough with oil before adding the sauce. The oil will serve as a barrier between the sauce and the crust and reduce the likelihood of the sauce migrating into the dough and creating a gum line (a doughy, dark-colored area just below the surface of the sauce). If you are using sugar in your dough, a second simple step is to reduce or eliminate the sugar. The sugar may cause the crust to brown quicker--before the rest of the pizza is baked--when baked on a hearth-like surface, like your Fibrament stone.

Another possible solution involves establishing a proper balance between the oven rack positioning of your stone, the oven bake temperature and duration, and the possible use of the broiler element. For example, in addition to implementing the "easy" steps mentioned above, you might want to place your stone in the middle rack position, lower the oven temperature by about 25-50 degrees F and lengthen the bake time (so that the crust bakes slowly and longer and crisps up better), and, if needed, move the pizza under the broiler for an additional minute or so of final top baking. (For a 6-7 minute bake time, I usually turn on the broiler element about 3 minutes or so into the total bake cycle.)

You might also find that using the stone on the lowest oven rack position (or possibly the middle rack position) and your normal oven temperature (500 degrees F), combined with the use of the broiler, may also solve your problem. Each oven behaves differently, so you may have to play around with yours to strike the right balance between the various possibilities mentioned above.

Another possibility is to dress your pizza on a pizza screen and put the screen directly on the stone. The metal of the screen keeps the pizza off of the stone and allows the pizza to bake without browning as fast. If you'd like, you can slide the pizza off of the screen onto the stone to allow for some bottom crust browning once the top looks like it has baked sufficiently. If you use this approach, you can also keep the sugar in the dough if you are using sugar. Again, you may have to play around with stone postioning and oven bake temperatures and times, as well as the possible use of the broiler element.

Good luck. Let us know if you solve the problem and what solution worked best for you.

Peter

[pizzamagic]

Thanks Peter. I have already eliminated sugar from my mix. I also tried the olive oil painted on the dough and it didn't seem to help. I have a 2nd generic pizza stone on the top oven rack to keep the heat more uniform in the oven. What's your feeling about the second stone? I will try moving the stone up a little in the oven and see what happens.
Regards,
Scott

[Pete-zza]

Scott,

I have also used the two stone method, along with the broiler. I bake the pizza on the lower stone for most of the bake time and then move the pizza to the top stone just under the broiler element for about another minute or two. I don't sense that there is a big difference between using the two stones versus just one stone. The broiler element seems to work pretty much the same under both scenarios. If you haven't tried the broiler approach you might want to give it a try and see what happens. I have found that the broiler under either scenario does a good job browning the top crust as well as providing top heat to the cheese and other toppings. If the cheese starts to brown too much, then you can always move the pizza back onto the lower stone.

Peter

[pizzamagic]

Thanks Peter. My oven's broiler is on the bottom and far to small for a pie.

[varasano]

If you follow my instructions on straining the water out of your sauce you can really get total control of hte water level in it without loosing any tomato solids. Click over to my site and check it out.  You can literally drain out 60% of the weight of a can of tomatoes and not loose a drop of tomato - it will all come out as nearly clear water.  You probably don't want to lose more than 30% though, even if you want to pile on the sauce.

Jeff

[Lars]

I make a slightly thicker crust pizza than most people here (I think), but I put a layer of cheese on the dough first and let it melt in the oven for a minute or two before I add other toppings.  Typically, I used sliced Provolone for this, but some people I know actually use Parmesan.  This probably would not work for a very thin crust, however.

[lilbuddypizza]

Hmmm...
A pizza stone alone should solve your problem. I put my oven on broil and heat the stone for a good hour at least. I LOVE sauce, and the only thing that limits how much I can put on is the transfer from pizza peel to stone. It's hard to put in if the sauce is sloshing around.(PS- don't put cornmeal or flour on the stone until 2-3 minutes prior to placing the pizza in.)

[pizzamagic]

I found that by increasing the hydration of my dough to 65%, the pizza dough no longer chars using my 2 minute prebake of the crust method.
Dough:
100% AP Flour (I'll try KASL next in 50/50 mix)
65% H20
1% Yeast
2% Salt
3% Extra Virgin Olive Oil
Dough made in Electrolux DX2000
Leave in refrigerator 2-3 days. Knock down and reform ball once each day in refrigerator.
1. Preheat oven/stone at 500 degrees for 1 hour.
2. Bake formed dough only for 2 minutes.
3. Dress pizza:sauce(strained of any excess water)/cheese/toppings
4. Bake 5 minutes undisturbed.
5. Turn pizza 180 degrees and bake an add'l 2 minutes.
Perfect crust every time.

[Arthur]

If you follow my instructions on straining the water out of your sauce you can really get total control of hte water level in it without loosing any tomato solids. Click over to my site and check it out.  You can literally drain out 60% of the weight of a can of tomatoes and not loose a drop of tomato - it will all come out as nearly clear water.  You probably don't want to lose more than 30% though, even if you want to pile on the sauce.

Jeff

I actually tried this method last weekend on my sauce - using Vantia.  Typically I add bonta to thicken it, but this method is better since you are getting the best of the sauce.  I actually used a flour sifter I had (with a small crank) and that worked great.

Thanks for the tip!   I typically put on very little sauce (BTW) and find that less is sometimes more.  Many of the "great" pizza places in NY do this as well.

[Andrew]

You could try a simple but effective solution we use at our shot for the pizza's with more moister. We sprinkle bread crumbs on the sauce which helps soak up excess moister but dose not effect the taste.

[quidoPizza]

the trick in getting a crispy crust. not soggy. is to cook your regular pie. just a few minutes short. remove from oven . let cool about 15 minutes.stick it baqck into the oven for about 2-4 minutes. remove just before charring. at stand about 3 minutes and eat.  since i don't have a pizza shop no longer. at home i use a sicilian tray or cookie sheet. with about a 1lb-1 1/3 lb of dough. i let the dough rise on a plate  till it's ready . then streach it into a olive oil doused tray about 4 oz.s then flip the dough over.  form it to tray. let sit for 2-4 more hours. till the dough has sucked up all the oil and is lite as air. add a ladle or so of gravy cook at 450f. for about 10-15 min till light brown. remove cool , add more sauce toppings cook 10-15 more till dark brown. let cool about 5 mins. my last pie i used the whole 28 oz. can of tomatoes mixed with sausage and mushrooms  it comes out so crunchy. you can here your friend's teeth cracking from the other side of the table. lol   it''s taken me @30 year too pretty much perfect this method. and it can be done with pretty much with any dough.  if you make your own dough try just a little more yeast. it will lighten up your dough.  if you really want crunchy crust . the sicilain tray method is the way . very thin.   john

[Ian]

I remove excess water from my home made (sauteed onion, garlic and carrot, canned tomatoes, thyme) sauce by "roasting" it in a 325 degree oven. I pour the nearly finished sauce into a wide teflon coated roasting pan and place uncovered in the oven and wait for the sauce to "dry up". I then add a little tomato juice (the kind you drink) and a little wine and roast until it starts to dry up again. I continue this cycle 3 or four times. The sauce develops a very rich flavour and is thick almost like a tomato paste.