Author Topic: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven  (Read 8461 times)

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buceriasdon

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Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« on: April 19, 2011, 07:51:07 PM »
So I was at the nursery this morning picking out some replacement plants for the hotel when I spied this pot and thought, that could work for the grill we have at the hotel. So I cut an opening with my angle grinder and a diamond blade, set it on my trusty 3/16"x12"x12" steel plate on the grill and fired it up. After twenty minutes I got 536F. at the inside walls but 756 on the plate. Hmm, this may not work with burnt bottoms but I'll make up some dough tonight and see what happens in the afternoon. May have go with cut down unglazed tile for the hearth, perhaps not a bad thing as I can then extend the hearth out farther. I have ten bucks in it so far the tile will run another dollar. Here is a link to the oven.    http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2008/01/japanese-stovetop-pizza-oven.html
Don
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 08:41:28 PM by buceriasdon »


Offline Frankie G

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2011, 07:52:29 PM »
i am intrigued.

pictures please.....

Online Tscarborough

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2011, 08:16:25 PM »
Put the tile on top of the iron plate.

buceriasdon

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2011, 08:31:10 PM »
That's my thinking also. It won't take but a few minutes to cut the tile down. I think if used on a stove top that would be the way to go. We shall see.
Don

Put the tile on top of the iron plate.

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2011, 09:25:44 PM »
Don,
Love the idea! Hope it works well for your pies!
Keep us posted as always!
 :)
-Bill

Offline Ronzo

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2011, 09:57:56 PM »
Don, that's a great idea! Looking forward to seeing your exploits with it. :)
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2011, 10:22:41 PM »
Looks good Don.  Not trying to be a nosey Nancy, but maybe offset the dome and plate where more of the direct heat can hit the dome?

My .02
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buceriasdon

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2011, 05:40:47 AM »
Gene, Maybe not clear in my photo but the bottom plate is smaller than the dome allowing for heat into the dome. Much like the original:
http://inventorspot.com/articles/stovetop_ceramic_pizza_oven_bake_9872
However on a stove top burner, not a larger grill, heat in the dome would mostly have to come from the bottom tile/burner. That's where the steel plate would be needed, supporting the weight of the dome and supplying heat to the dome. It may be necessary to drill holes in the base to allow the heat into the dome on the stove top.
Don


Looks good Don.  Not trying to be a nosey Nancy, but maybe offset the dome and plate where more of the direct heat can hit the dome?

My .02
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 05:49:51 AM by buceriasdon »

scott123

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2011, 07:35:03 AM »
Don, clay molecules are flat hexagonal discs:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Clay_magnified.jpg

These discs, when squished against each other, overlap and provide flexural strength, much like steel plates on a suit of armor.  In slip cast earthenware, such as the pot you're working with, the clay molecules are suspended in water, and, when the water evaporates, the molecules are pointing in every direction imaginable. It's molecules akimbo and produces the weakest possible ceramics.

Flexural strength is directly related to thermal shock resistance. This is why cast materials, such as fibrament, require a metal deflector in a grill setting. It's also why pressed/extruded materials, such as cordierite, can handle direct flame.

Earthenware is especially susceptible to thermal shock because of it's propensity to contain air pockets- air pockets with a different rate of thermal expansion than the clay surrounding them. As your setup stands now, you've got parts of the pot that are exposed to direct flame, while other parts are blocked by the plate. It's not a question of if the pot will crack, but when. You could block the entire pot from below by using a larger plate, but that would only exacerbate the top to bottom heat issue.

I think this is a worthwhile idea, but I would suggest finding another material for the dome and steering clear of earthenware in high heat settings.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2011, 08:26:07 AM »
Can the inside of the dome be lined with a layer of refractory cement?


buceriasdon

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2011, 05:55:10 PM »
As predicted, the steel plate burnt the bottom before the top baked. I'm off to pick up some tiles.
Don

buceriasdon

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2011, 07:12:20 PM »
I'm just did a test heat and the dome and hearth are within 40 degrees, with the hearth lagging after 18 minutes. Dome sides are 640, hearth is 600. I need to come up with an idea for a faux chimney for the drain hole in dome. Maybe a soup can and a bolt through the top :D Pizza first light Thursday.
Don
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 07:16:30 PM by buceriasdon »

scott123

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2011, 07:24:09 PM »
Don, if you feel compelled to continue to work with the pot, go with a deflector.  That's how the Japanese stove top oven is doing it.  A less conductive stone will help, but I think you'll really want a layer of air in the equation.

...and drop the height on the ceiling about 2 more inches. Just like the Japanese oven, you want the tightest vertical space possible. A 640ish deg. ceiling about 5" away isn't going to have much impact.  3" is where you want to be.

Offline Ronzo

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2011, 07:45:08 PM »
Don, looks like you're working it out well. Side note: your new oven looks like a new Pokemon creation. :) A fire breathing pizza eater, perhaps?
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

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buceriasdon

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2011, 09:05:40 PM »
Scott, Thanks for your interest. I feel compelled to work with I have to work with because that is what I have to work with here. My philosophy of life here in Mexico is "I'd rather have a second rate something than a first rate nothing". Such as:  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6910.0.html
I used that funky oven I built for years and only let it go because of space considerations after a divorce. My stone in my LBE, it's the same clay tile that the dome and the hearth for the JSTPO and I have a high pressure burner five inches away from it and no diffuser. It works. I won't stop making pizza because all the flour I have to work with is poor quality Mexican AP. Where is the fun in that? Where is the challenge? Do I compare my crusts to those who have access to better flours North of me? No, I never have, but I make the best damn pizza in Banderas Bay, Mexico. :D
Don


Don, if you feel compelled to continue to work with the pot, go with a deflector.  That's how the Japanese stove top oven is doing it.  A less conductive stone will help, but I think you'll really want a layer of air in the equation.

...and drop the height on the ceiling about 2 more inches. Just like the Japanese oven, you want the tightest vertical space possible. A 640ish deg. ceiling about 5" away isn't going to have much impact.  3" is where you want to be.

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2011, 11:43:45 PM »
Don, you are doing better with not much, than those with alot.

Would there be anyway to add fan forced air to the coals just after launch?  The bottom surface should not increase temperature as much as the top should, in such a short time.  Computer fan, personal fan, hair dryer, bellows, something?  As you have already posted, that top air needs to be super hot.

I'm sure you make kickass pizza's in Banderas Bay.
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2011, 08:43:36 AM »
I feel compelled to work with I have to work with because that is what I have to work with here. My philosophy of life here in Mexico is "I'd rather have a second rate something than a first rate nothing".  I won't stop making pizza because all the flour I have to work with is poor quality Mexican AP. Where is the fun in that? Where is the challenge? Do I compare my crusts to those who have access to better flours North of me? No, I never have, but I make the best damn pizza in Banderas Bay, Mexico. :D
Don



Very well said Don.  I love your take on using what is available to you.  I also have no doubt that you make the best pies in Banderas Bay. 

Regards,
Chau

buceriasdon

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2011, 09:47:41 AM »
Ok, so I need to make my "door" a bit higher, I had problems getting under the pie to turn it. I also need to build a metal turning peel, the little wood one just won't get it. However for my second attempt I've very pleased with the results. Both sides done and nice browning.  I do need to scale the ball size down as the skin is a bit thick. Some easy to fix little problems.
Don

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2011, 10:50:06 AM »
Don, those look great!
Fuggheddabowdit!

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buceriasdon

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Re: Take off on the Japanese stove top oven
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2011, 02:45:51 PM »
I corrected the opening height, much easier to turn the pizza now, and no I don't use chopsticks to turn the pie. :) This pizza took just over three and a half minutes at 650 hearth to bake. Next year during high season, here at the hotel we plan on having a pizza making night a couple times a month and this unit will work great for that purpose. I'll make the dough balls the night before and then folks can form, top and bake their own personal pizzas. I'll be sure and make some extra dough balls :-D It should be fun. The grill is large enough for two so I plan on another one. Total cost was eleven US dolllars.
Don
« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 02:50:01 PM by buceriasdon »


 

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