Author Topic: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"  (Read 7551 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online tinroofrusted

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1281
  • Location: OC, CA
  • Experimenting....
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2011, 01:22:51 PM »
OK, here are a couple of photos of my second "Lazy Man's Loaf" which will go with me to Easter at the in-laws.  I will be proud to show up with this bread.  Can't show you the crumb yet because I want to deliver it in all it's glory. 

Chau, I think I did a little better on the slashing this time.  I did four slashes in a square on the top, and I got a bit of a "hanging cliff" look which I am pleased with.  Still there's room for improvement on my slashing technique. I think the somewhat less hydrated dough may have contributed to the improved slashing, and I did leave this loaf to develop a bit longer.  As you will see I didn't get around to buying a cane banneton, so I used my wicker basket again.  You can see a bit of the outline of the pattern of the basket from the semolina that I dusted it with. 

Happy Easter to all. 

Tin Roof


Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6988
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2011, 01:26:07 PM »
So here are my loaves for Easter lunch.

The boule is ~36% starter and the loaf is about 10% starter plus 0.2% IDY.   Both breads had maybe a 5min rest after initial mixing, then went into the fridge.  They were reballed about 10 hours later, and then cold fermented for another 9 hours.  Proofed at room temps of 75F for 3 hours prior to baking.   I shaped them after coming out of the fridge for about 45m or so.  
 
Pic 1 proofed dough.  The boule is also slightly more wet than the loaf.  Note how much further it is fermented and the bigger oven spring despite the same fermentation time & protocol.

Pic 2 the starter boule baked covered with a round metal mixing bowl.  I like the pimples on the skin.  

Pic 3 the loaf baked in a romertopf baker.   I was trying a new slash pattern and the bread didn't expand nearly as well as i usually get.  I'm going to blame the seemingly poor rise to the new scoring pattern and baking in the Romertopf.  I'm not sure that I get as good of a seal between the lid and bottom as I do when I use the metal mixing bowls so steam may be escaping. 
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 10:47:27 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6988
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2011, 01:31:54 PM »
Tin Roof, your bread looks fabulous.  I'm sure it looks just as great on the inside as well.   I agree with you that the lower hydration dough will tend to allow for a deep score and thus a better ear.   For me everything is a balance.    It looks like you got a better spring as well.  This is probably also due to having more slash marks on the loaf and better gluten development.  You can see the rise from the increase openess of the score marks.   I hope you enjoy the bread and the rest of your Easter Sunday as well.

Cheers,
Chau
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 10:48:18 PM by Jackie Tran »

Online tinroofrusted

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1281
  • Location: OC, CA
  • Experimenting....
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #43 on: April 24, 2011, 01:38:17 PM »
Tin Roof, your bread looks fabulous.  I'm sure it looks just as great on the inside as well.   I agree with you that the lower hydration dough will tend to allow for a deep score and thus a better ear.   For me everything is a balance.    It looks like you got a better spring as well.  This is probably also due to having more slash marks on the loaf and better gluten development.  You can see the rise from the increase openess of the score marks.   I hope you enjoy the bread and the rest of yoru Easter Sunday as well.

Cheers,
Chau

You've got two beautiful loaves to take with you to Easter.  Well done and thanks for sharing the pics. 

You are absolutely right about the spring on this loaf. I hadn't thought about the slashes contributing to that. 

We can both go to Easter feeling good about our bread. 

Best regards,

Tin Roof

PaulsPizza

  • Guest
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #44 on: April 24, 2011, 09:44:13 PM »
Chau, that bread is truly amazing! I used to make it for a living and you my man put me to shame! You and a few others here are whole heartedly worthy of the accolades you get...

home pizza maker.... yeah ok........
:-)


Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6988
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2011, 12:17:15 PM »
 :-D  haha Paul.  Thanks man!   Mostly just messing around. 

So the 2 loaves I made for Easter turned out great.   First b/c of the starter use and the extended cold fermentation time, flavor and texture was quite good.

No crumb shots, but the boule had an more open and light crumb.  Both breads had a spongy quality to them and the taste was good.  Got a lot of compliments for the bread.   People love the SD texture without the the SD taste.  It was on the very mild side.   I definitely needed to bake the boule out longer to get that really dark color and crunch since that dough was a bit wetter than 80%. 

I'll have to confess, it really irks me the way people handle my loaves.  They don't know how to cut bread.  They squeeze the loaf and squash the crumb.  Luckily it was spongy and bounced back up.   Also cutting bread at someone else's house, I had to use their dull bread knife which was a dull experience. 

The food was good and the girls had fun collecting eggs.  My 1.5 year old, pickeup up real eggs and put them back down.  She was only interested in the plastic eggs that rattled b/c she knew they contained chocolates and candy.   :-D

Online tinroofrusted

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1281
  • Location: OC, CA
  • Experimenting....
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2011, 12:57:45 PM »
I'll have to confess, it really irks me the way people handle my loaves.  They don't know how to cut bread.  They squeeze the loaf and squash the crumb.  Luckily it was spongy and bounced back up.   Also cutting bread at someone else's house, I had to use their dull bread knife which was a dull experience. 

I had the exact same problem.  I had put the bread back in the oven to crisp it up a bit and my brother-in-law was totally mangling it when I intervened and took over the slicing. I usually do bring my own bread knife (as well as a chef's knife for other foods) when we go to the in-laws. Once we got the bread sliced properly everyone really loved it.  I was super pleased with how it came out, and just as you predicted the crumb was even better than my last loaf. 

Offline forzaroma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 384
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2011, 11:41:18 AM »
I made this bread on Sunday I havent posted because I have had a damn virus. Well the bread came out really good but i did use 73% HR as 80% was too much fo me to handle on a wet muggy day. The crumb and crust and flavor probaby the best I have ever had. The camera made the color look yellow but it was bread flour.

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6988
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2011, 12:06:06 PM »
Mike, thanks for trying the technique again and posting your results.  That's a nice looking crumb shot.  I'm glad it worked out well for you.   The recipe is a very typical bread recipe.  It's very similar to the Tartine country bread when made with starter and 10% ww flour.  The only difference is in the way the gluten is developed.  This recipe and bread that I posted isn't really that special.  What is special about it is what you can learn about gluten development and how it balances with the strength of flour, hydration, fermentation, and bake.   You can definitely play around with these variables to see what you get and how these variables singularly and together affect the process and end product.   Once you learn this, you can adjust them to get the type of crumb and texture you want.  You can also lengthen the cold fermentation for flavor and texture or use a starter for that as well.  This whole process can also be modified for a same day fermentation (that would be a combination of 5 min method and Chad's routine).
This really frees us up from the rigidity of some methods and allows more room for creativity.   This is what Chad recommends in his bread book.

Anyways, I'm currently working with a technique very similar to this for pizza making.

Last night I made an experimental loaf using an 84% hydration with 1% oil.  It was really wet and I knew it would be.  I did this so that I could apply Richard Bertinet's kneading method to the bread to see what would happen.  I kneaded the dough about 5min, balled and then into the fridged.  Reballed in the morning, back in fridge, proofed 3 hours and baked later in the evening.   The bread was good but not as good as my previous effort.  I think I like a more moderate hydration dough when it comes to bread. 

Chau

Offline forzaroma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 384
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2011, 12:08:42 PM »
Only difference is I didnt cover the loaf as I had nothing to cover it with so I just steamed my oven using Reinharts hearth homee baking method. 


Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6988
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2011, 12:15:52 PM »
Mike I have done it both ways and I like the look of bread that has been covered the first 1/2 of the bake.  I have a friend who prefers flat ciabatta like loaves that are not covered.  She often tells me my loaves are too high and have too much crumb.    ;D  The 2 techniques definitely gives a different look to the bread.

Chau

Offline forzaroma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 384
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2011, 12:16:59 PM »
So by covering the loaf it gives you height? When you shape your loaf do u try to get a good amount of tension? Im afraid to play with the loaf too much I dont wantto degass it.

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6988
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2011, 12:36:01 PM »
So by covering the loaf it gives you height? When you shape your loaf do u try to get a good amount of tension? Im afraid to play with the loaf too much I dont wantto degass it.

Covering can give you a bit of extra height as oppose to steaming the whole oven.   It concentrates the steam in there keeping the skin softer allowing for the loaf to expand a bit more.   I would say that the height (oven spring) comes from many things.   It is a fairly hydrated dough with the appropriate amount of gluten development to tent up the air bubbles balanced with the right amount of fermentation.  Sufficient heat is also needed as well as other factors such as skin tension, and scoring technique play a role as well, but to what extent I'm not sure.     

When I shape my loaves, I have found that skin tension is not as important as I once thought.  You need some but not that much.  I usually shape the loaf so that after it relaxes before baking, it is about 1/2 the size of my desired end loaf.   You can look at the scored loaf in reply #1.  I scored it and then immediately load it into the oven.  You can see from that loaf, that there isn't that much tension in that loaf.   But yes, you don't what to degass the loaf before baking.

On the flip side, if I am proofing a loaf out really well, sometimes I do see large airbubbles near the surface of the loaf.  In this instance, I will use a bamboo skewer to deflate any giant airbubbles prior to baking.  So I do selective degassing of air pockets.  :-D

Chau

Online tinroofrusted

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1281
  • Location: OC, CA
  • Experimenting....
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2011, 09:22:05 AM »
I was so happy with the results from my Lazy Man's Bread that I baked for Easter, I made another loaf.  Here's the ingredients:

450 grams bread flour
50 grams white whole wheat flour (from Trader Joe's)
390 grams water
1/4 tsp IDY
1 TB sourdough starter
1.75 tsp salt

Mixed it all up using Chau's LMB technique discussed earlier in this thread.  Left it overnight in the fridge, gave it a few turns, back in the fridge for another 24 hours.  Total of about 48 hours of resting in the fridge. I took it out from time to time and gave it a few turns. Probably 6-8 times total once it was refrigerated.

Took it out of the fridge about 3.5 hours before baking. Made a round loaf and proofed it in a wicker basket dusted with semolina flour.  Heated the oven to 550. Put the proofed bread right on the baking stone, reduced the oven heat to 475, and covered with a stainless steel pan that was heated before hand.  20 minutes covered, 20 minutes uncovered. (I turned the heat down from 475 to 425 after I took the cover off.)

The results actually surpassed my Easter bread.  I got that "custard" interior that is kind of shiny and translucent.  Flavor is excellent.  Very subtle tang from the sourdough, nicely developed flavor.  Probably the best loaf of bread I've made to date.  It's such fun to make a good loaf of bread.  Here's some pictures:

Regards, 

TinRoof


Offline Ronzo

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1408
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Leander, TX
  • Beer, Whiskey, Freedom n' Pizza...
    • New Texian Brewery
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2011, 09:51:13 AM »
TinRoof: AMAZING!!!
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

Former NY'er living in Texas
http://newtexianbrew.com - http://pinterest.com/NewTexianBrew

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6988
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2011, 09:57:25 AM »
TR.  Stellar performance!  Very happy to see you switching it up.

Chau

Offline dellavecchia

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2628
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #56 on: April 28, 2011, 10:03:21 AM »
tinroofrusted - Picture perfect! I am itching to try Chau's method with starter as well.

John

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22451
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2011, 12:24:40 PM »
tinroofrusted,

Your bread looks excellent!  :)

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6988
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2011, 08:28:31 PM »
Made another LMB loaf but used 93% KABF and 7% semolina.   I have tried using KABF twice before and the bread wasn't very good, so I concluded that it was my technique and not the flour.  I tried again this time using this technique and got better results than before, but it took a bit more effort to get there.  

Here's the recipe I used

Flour 310gm (22gm of that in semolina flour)
Water 240gm (79% with starter added in)
Starter 31gm
IDY 0.2% or ~1/6tsp
Salt 2.2% or ~ 7gm

Dissolve salt in water, then mixed in starter and IDY.  
Measured out flours, then added to water mixture, stirred and then squeezed with hands to even sticky mixture.
Rested 30min, then did 20 or so mini folds from edge to center rotating bowl.
Rested another 30m, then did more folds to reball the dough.  
Cold fermented till next morning (~7 hours) and then reballed the dough.
Continued CFing until after work (~9 hours) and reballed again.
CF until next morning (14 hours) and reballed again.
CF another 10hours, did a few folds for strength, then proofed 2 hours till bake.

all in all, this dough received about 40hours of cold ferment and 3 hours at room temps.  

The bread looked and felt really nice but not my best loaf by my standards.  Don't get me wrong, it was delicious.  I thought the crumb was ever so slightly overfermented and a bit overly chewy.   I'm not sure if this is from the KABF or the extended cold fermentation, or that I reballed it one too many times.

My analysis of KABF is that it can make a light and delicious product but requires some understanding of how to build gluten into the dough.   It does take more work to achieve a good product compared to my Sam's club HG bromated flour (loaf in reply #1 of this thread).   Do I feel that KABF is a better flour than other typical flours?  No.   Is the higher price warranted? No.   BUT I have been told that it can be bought at Walmart for around under $4 for the 5lb bag, making it more comparable in price.  

I'm sure if I continue to practice with it I can make some really good bread and pizza with it.   Sam's club HG bromated flour is $16 and change for a 50lb bag.   For me, it is much easier to work with and yields a superior product in terms of texture and lightness.   Can you make a light and perhaps a superlight product using non bromated flours?  I would say yes, but it does require a bit more know how and effort.  

disclaimer:  this post is not a slant against KABF or non bromated flours.  Just expressing my opinions from my limited experience.    :angel:

Okay here's the loaf...
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 08:24:40 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6988
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2011, 08:29:48 PM »
Here's breakfast and a few more upclose crumb shots.


 

pizzapan