Author Topic: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"  (Read 13828 times)

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Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2011, 11:11:43 PM »
BSO,  do you use rice flour?   Ohh,  and you just have to eat less!  Keep baking. -marc


Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2011, 11:16:15 PM »
BSO,  do you use rice flour?   Ohh,  and you just have to eat less!  Keep baking. -marc

No just the same flour used to make the bread. I can't eat less it's impossible.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2011, 11:23:51 PM »
Congrats on the weight lost David.  I honestly need to cut back myself.  I keep saying pizza once a week, but somehow it turns into twice a week.

Offline Ronzo

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2011, 11:26:32 PM »
I've already lost 20lbs.
You're doing good. Congratulations. I lost almost 50 a few years ago. Lots of work. I have gained it all back, unfortunately. 10 pounds per month is really healthy way to lose it.
Fuggheddabowdit!

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http://newtexianbrew.com - http://pinterest.com/NewTexianBrew

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2011, 08:03:59 AM »
Mike - No I'm not Italian.  I'm pretty sure of that.  :D

Gene - The skills I may have in dough, I lack elsewhere.  I'm sure there are many many things you could kick my @ss at.  I suck at BBQ and building things...

TRR - I thought you were asking me for the the volumetric measurements earlier.  Sorry I misunderstood your question.   The amounts I used for the pictured loaf is as such...

HG flour 328gm
Water 263gm
IDY 1.6gm or ~1/2 tsp
Salt 6.6gm rounded up to 7gm for simplicity sake

TheWalt - I have heard of this method before.  Next time you make a loaf, can you take a picture of the bread and a crumb shot for me? I'd like to see what type of bread is made with this technique. 

Thanks,
Chau

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2011, 09:25:01 AM »


TRR - I thought you were asking me for the the volumetric measurements earlier.  Sorry I misunderstood your question.   The amounts I used for the pictured loaf is as such...

HG flour 328gm
Water 263gm
IDY 1.6gm or ~1/2 tsp
Salt 6.6gm rounded up to 7gm for simplicity sake


So I just pulled the bread out of the fridge and gave it the morning set of turns, then back in the fridge.  It doesn't pass the windowpane test, but it has firmed up nicely and the dough is pretty smooth and elastic.  Chau, I used bread flour which I got at Smart  Final (I think it's called Baker's Choice).  

Here's a photo:
« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 10:34:30 AM by tinroofrusted »

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2011, 12:01:29 AM »
OK, here are a couple of shots of my "Lazy Man's Bread". I just took it out of the oven, so I will wait a while to cut it. It was truly easy to make, and it seems to have come out pretty well based on the oven spring and color etc.  Thanks Chau, for inspiring me and many others here.

By the way, I proofed it in a wicker basket which is why I got those kind of unusual marks on the bread.  

Edit: Here are also is a shot of the cut bread. How does it look to you?  To me it looks really good.  And the flavor is really good too. Of course, how bad can a warm loaf of bread taste? 

TinRoof
« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 12:32:12 AM by tinroofrusted »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2011, 01:09:30 AM »
TRR, thanks for posting pictures of your lazy man's bread.   You did a fabulous job and your loaf looks great.   I can't tell but it does look like you have some bread baking experience from the looks of the shaping.

A friend sent me links tonight to videos of Lahey's No knead bread and Mark Bittman's no knead bread.  Though I hadn't seen their techniques before, they are both very similar to mine.

I'm glad you gave the technique a try and you liked the bread as well.

Chau

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2011, 10:41:56 AM »
TRR, thanks for posting pictures of your lazy man's bread.   You did a fabulous job and your loaf looks great.   I can't tell but it does look like you have some bread baking experience from the looks of the shaping.
A friend sent me links tonight to videos of Lahey's No knead bread and Mark Bittman's no knead bread.  Though I hadn't seen their techniques before, they are both very similar to mine.
I'm glad you gave the technique a try and you liked the bread as well.

Chau
Thanks Chau.  I have made a few loaves, it's true. But I had kind of been in a slump, and your recipe got me out of it. Sometimes you need a bit of inspiration.  I actually have Jim Lahey's book on my side table right now and will be reading it this weekend.  I guess his bakery in NYC make really great bread and he has a pizzeria too (Co.), which is supposed to be really good. 

I'm looking forward to seeing how your pizzas come out in your new WFO.  I've been thinking about one for a while and maybe will put one in one of these  days. 

Best regards,

TinRoof


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2011, 10:57:53 AM »
TRR, thanks for telling me the bread gave you inspiration and got you out of your slump.   ;D  I get into slumps all the time myself. 

Making up 2 loaves of LMB this morning.  I was looking through my notebook (of secrets...) and saw that I had made a loaf of bread not long ago with a similar technique to no knead bread.  I mixed it up and it went into the fridge right away, but I did do folds after 9 hours or so of CF and it turned out great. 

So for today's loaves, I'm revising this method a bit.  I am shortening the AL from 30m-1h to 5m or less.  So the whole process should take under 30m to get your ingredients, weigh, and mix.   

I still did the 30 or so mini folds and ball before going to sleep in the fridge.  I'm making 2 loaves, 1 with 30% active starter and the 2nd one with 10% plus 0.2% IDY.  I didn't have enough starter so, I'm substituting.    These loaves will be baked up tomorrow for a brunch.  Will post pics later. 

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2011, 11:31:29 AM »
We must think alike.  I started another loaf last night for Easter brunch at my inlaws. I left it out for about a half an hour, did a series of folds over the next two hours, then put it in the fridge for overnight fermentation.  This morning I took it out and give it a few more folds and back in the fridge.  I'm going to give it a few more folds today from time to time and then get up early tomorrow to bake it.  I think I'm going to buy a wicker banneton today to proof it in.  Not sure if I should get round or oblong. Any opinions there? I guess it's just personal preference.  

BTW, what does AL stand for. I get most of the abbreviations but that one stumped me.  

I will try to post some pics of the finished product, and hopefully you can do the same.  

One thing I could use some advice on is slashing.  I don't seem to get the dramatic look that your loaves get. Should I slash deeper? I've heard you should try to hold the blade kind of sideways so you get under the loaf skin as much as possible. But your loaf looked like a straight line right down the middle, and it came out beautifully. 

Regards,  

Tin Roof
« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 11:34:18 AM by tinroofrusted »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2011, 12:41:49 PM »
From your description, your loaves tomorrow will have an even more open crumb structure once baked up. 

I use the abbreviation AL to represent Autolyse.  A classic autolyse is just flour and water.  I use a modified autolyse to include salt, starter, and sometimes sugar and oil along with the water and flour. 

Ahh, the topic of slashing and how much the loaves bloom can depend on several factors.  I'm no expert, but from what I can tell, the angle at which you slash and how deep you slash is only part of it.

The other part of it is hydration level.  The wetter the dough, the less pronounced the ear or edges of the slash, but the more the loaf can open especially if the gluten is developed sufficient.   This is why no knead methods don't work as well with really high hydration doughs and/or really weak flours.  The less gluten is develope, the flatter the bread and the denser the crumb.

How much the loaf opens also depends partly on the strength of the dough, how far along the dough is fermented, how much surface tension is developed when forming the loaves, and the effects of steaming.

Chau


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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2011, 02:03:29 PM »
From your description, your loaves tomorrow will have an even more open crumb structure once baked up. 

I use the abbreviation AL to represent Autolyse.  A classic autolyse is just flour and water.  I use a modified autolyse to include salt, starter, and sometimes sugar and oil along with the water and flour. 

Ahh, the topic of slashing and how much the loaves bloom can depend on several factors.  I'm no expert, but from what I can tell, the angle at which you slash and how deep you slash is only part of it.

The other part of it is hydration level.  The wetter the dough, the less pronounced the ear or edges of the slash, but the more the loaf can open especially if the gluten is developed sufficient.   This is why no knead methods don't work as well with really high hydration doughs and/or really weak flours.  The less gluten is develope, the flatter the bread and the denser the crumb.

How much the loaf opens also depends partly on the strength of the dough, how far along the dough is fermented, how much surface tension is developed when forming the loaves, and the effects of steaming.

Chau



Thanks Chau. That gives me lots to think about. I did actually lower the hydration slightly (from 400 grams to 395) just to see if it would make any difference.  So maybe that will result in a slightly better slash this time. Here's hoping. 

Regards,

TinRoof

Offline forzaroma

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2011, 02:19:25 PM »
I tried a batch if this today at 80 percent hydration and did like 40 folds and it's still super wet and just flops down and doesn't stay in a ball. It us super rainyhere today and very humid. Oh I used bread flour I don't know isvwhat makes a difference. I balled it up as best as I can and threw it in fridge andbill try a few more folds through the day.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2011, 03:17:09 PM »
I tried a batch if this today at 80 percent hydration and did like 40 folds and it's still super wet and just flops down and doesn't stay in a ball. It us super rainyhere today and very humid. Oh I used bread flour I don't know isvwhat makes a difference. I balled it up as best as I can and threw it in fridge andbill try a few more folds through the day.

Mike this is why I tell folks to adjust their hydration ratio accordingly to the strength of the flour and your climate.  I am using a HG flour (stronger, more protein than BF) and I live in a very dry climate where my flour is likely more dry than yours and will drink up quite a bit more water.

Depending on how long your dough has been sitting in the fridge already there are a few things you can do to fix this problem.  If the dough hasn't risen very much, I would take it out and knead in a bit more flour to lower your hydration to 75%.  You can do the math to figure out how much flour or make the dough to match the consistency of what I have pictured.  

If there is rise in the dough, then just leave it be.  Instead of doing only 1 more set of folds at 9 hours, it may take another 3-4 sets every few hours.  This is IF you want a light and open crumb.  If you want a more dense and flat crumb, then just do one more set of folds in 8 hours or so.   But even with the one, fold it up until it balls up then seal the ball.  It will flatten out again later, and you will still need to form the loaves before baking.  The forming and shaping of the loaves will again build more strength into the bread.  

You guys may not realize it, but the exercise you are doing here will teach you more about making bread and pizza than following any recipe.   There is no replacement for learning how to handle dough.   If you don't understand some basic ideas to dough and gluten development, it will take you 10 years to learn how to make decent bread/pizza.  If you learn these things now, you can save yourself upto 9 years. ;)

Again, adjust your hydrations accordingly or try to copy what the dough looks like whether it's Tartine bread or Di Fara pizza.

Chau

« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 03:22:57 PM by Jackie Tran »

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2011, 01:22:51 PM »
OK, here are a couple of photos of my second "Lazy Man's Loaf" which will go with me to Easter at the in-laws.  I will be proud to show up with this bread.  Can't show you the crumb yet because I want to deliver it in all it's glory. 

Chau, I think I did a little better on the slashing this time.  I did four slashes in a square on the top, and I got a bit of a "hanging cliff" look which I am pleased with.  Still there's room for improvement on my slashing technique. I think the somewhat less hydrated dough may have contributed to the improved slashing, and I did leave this loaf to develop a bit longer.  As you will see I didn't get around to buying a cane banneton, so I used my wicker basket again.  You can see a bit of the outline of the pattern of the basket from the semolina that I dusted it with. 

Happy Easter to all. 

Tin Roof

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2011, 01:26:07 PM »
So here are my loaves for Easter lunch.

The boule is ~36% starter and the loaf is about 10% starter plus 0.2% IDY.   Both breads had maybe a 5min rest after initial mixing, then went into the fridge.  They were reballed about 10 hours later, and then cold fermented for another 9 hours.  Proofed at room temps of 75F for 3 hours prior to baking.   I shaped them after coming out of the fridge for about 45m or so.  
 
Pic 1 proofed dough.  The boule is also slightly more wet than the loaf.  Note how much further it is fermented and the bigger oven spring despite the same fermentation time & protocol.

Pic 2 the starter boule baked covered with a round metal mixing bowl.  I like the pimples on the skin.  

Pic 3 the loaf baked in a romertopf baker.   I was trying a new slash pattern and the bread didn't expand nearly as well as i usually get.  I'm going to blame the seemingly poor rise to the new scoring pattern and baking in the Romertopf.  I'm not sure that I get as good of a seal between the lid and bottom as I do when I use the metal mixing bowls so steam may be escaping. 
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 10:47:27 PM by Jackie Tran »


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2011, 01:31:54 PM »
Tin Roof, your bread looks fabulous.  I'm sure it looks just as great on the inside as well.   I agree with you that the lower hydration dough will tend to allow for a deep score and thus a better ear.   For me everything is a balance.    It looks like you got a better spring as well.  This is probably also due to having more slash marks on the loaf and better gluten development.  You can see the rise from the increase openess of the score marks.   I hope you enjoy the bread and the rest of your Easter Sunday as well.

Cheers,
Chau
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 10:48:18 PM by Jackie Tran »

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #43 on: April 24, 2011, 01:38:17 PM »
Tin Roof, your bread looks fabulous.  I'm sure it looks just as great on the inside as well.   I agree with you that the lower hydration dough will tend to allow for a deep score and thus a better ear.   For me everything is a balance.    It looks like you got a better spring as well.  This is probably also due to having more slash marks on the loaf and better gluten development.  You can see the rise from the increase openess of the score marks.   I hope you enjoy the bread and the rest of yoru Easter Sunday as well.

Cheers,
Chau

You've got two beautiful loaves to take with you to Easter.  Well done and thanks for sharing the pics. 

You are absolutely right about the spring on this loaf. I hadn't thought about the slashes contributing to that. 

We can both go to Easter feeling good about our bread. 

Best regards,

Tin Roof

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #44 on: April 24, 2011, 09:44:13 PM »
Chau, that bread is truly amazing! I used to make it for a living and you my man put me to shame! You and a few others here are whole heartedly worthy of the accolades you get...

home pizza maker.... yeah ok........
:-)


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2011, 12:17:15 PM »
 :-D  haha Paul.  Thanks man!   Mostly just messing around. 

So the 2 loaves I made for Easter turned out great.   First b/c of the starter use and the extended cold fermentation time, flavor and texture was quite good.

No crumb shots, but the boule had an more open and light crumb.  Both breads had a spongy quality to them and the taste was good.  Got a lot of compliments for the bread.   People love the SD texture without the the SD taste.  It was on the very mild side.   I definitely needed to bake the boule out longer to get that really dark color and crunch since that dough was a bit wetter than 80%. 

I'll have to confess, it really irks me the way people handle my loaves.  They don't know how to cut bread.  They squeeze the loaf and squash the crumb.  Luckily it was spongy and bounced back up.   Also cutting bread at someone else's house, I had to use their dull bread knife which was a dull experience. 

The food was good and the girls had fun collecting eggs.  My 1.5 year old, pickeup up real eggs and put them back down.  She was only interested in the plastic eggs that rattled b/c she knew they contained chocolates and candy.   :-D

Online tinroofrusted

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2011, 12:57:45 PM »
I'll have to confess, it really irks me the way people handle my loaves.  They don't know how to cut bread.  They squeeze the loaf and squash the crumb.  Luckily it was spongy and bounced back up.   Also cutting bread at someone else's house, I had to use their dull bread knife which was a dull experience. 

I had the exact same problem.  I had put the bread back in the oven to crisp it up a bit and my brother-in-law was totally mangling it when I intervened and took over the slicing. I usually do bring my own bread knife (as well as a chef's knife for other foods) when we go to the in-laws. Once we got the bread sliced properly everyone really loved it.  I was super pleased with how it came out, and just as you predicted the crumb was even better than my last loaf. 

Offline forzaroma

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2011, 11:41:18 AM »
I made this bread on Sunday I havent posted because I have had a damn virus. Well the bread came out really good but i did use 73% HR as 80% was too much fo me to handle on a wet muggy day. The crumb and crust and flavor probaby the best I have ever had. The camera made the color look yellow but it was bread flour.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2011, 12:06:06 PM »
Mike, thanks for trying the technique again and posting your results.  That's a nice looking crumb shot.  I'm glad it worked out well for you.   The recipe is a very typical bread recipe.  It's very similar to the Tartine country bread when made with starter and 10% ww flour.  The only difference is in the way the gluten is developed.  This recipe and bread that I posted isn't really that special.  What is special about it is what you can learn about gluten development and how it balances with the strength of flour, hydration, fermentation, and bake.   You can definitely play around with these variables to see what you get and how these variables singularly and together affect the process and end product.   Once you learn this, you can adjust them to get the type of crumb and texture you want.  You can also lengthen the cold fermentation for flavor and texture or use a starter for that as well.  This whole process can also be modified for a same day fermentation (that would be a combination of 5 min method and Chad's routine).
This really frees us up from the rigidity of some methods and allows more room for creativity.   This is what Chad recommends in his bread book.

Anyways, I'm currently working with a technique very similar to this for pizza making.

Last night I made an experimental loaf using an 84% hydration with 1% oil.  It was really wet and I knew it would be.  I did this so that I could apply Richard Bertinet's kneading method to the bread to see what would happen.  I kneaded the dough about 5min, balled and then into the fridged.  Reballed in the morning, back in fridge, proofed 3 hours and baked later in the evening.   The bread was good but not as good as my previous effort.  I think I like a more moderate hydration dough when it comes to bread. 

Chau

Offline forzaroma

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Re: How to make "Lazy Man's Bread"
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2011, 12:08:42 PM »
Only difference is I didnt cover the loaf as I had nothing to cover it with so I just steamed my oven using Reinharts hearth homee baking method. 


 

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