Author Topic: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices  (Read 6015 times)

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Offline chickenparm

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18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« on: April 23, 2011, 10:38:58 PM »
Hey Folks,

Many of you may have already seen these when I sent them to you in emails.I believe many of you are right,I should post my results here on the forum for others to see.

I was hoping to get the photo problems Ive been having,squared away first,but not yet,so hope you don't mind another link to click to see the pics.

I made these almost 2 weeks ago,using KABF.I also made 3 more pies exactly the same way that week,and they came out great and the same.I then had some cheese burning issues I posted about and that sort of put a halt on my experiments before I tried the Bouncer flour in the other thread.

Here is the recipe I used.

17 inch pizza dough.(stretched out for the 18 inch screen)

KABF,60% hydro.IDY

Flour (100%):    386.94 g  |  13.65 oz | 0.85 lbs
Water (60%):    232.17 g  |  8.19 oz | 0.51 lbs
IDY (0.3%):    1.16 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.39 tsp | 0.13 tbsp
Salt (2.0%):    7.74 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.61 tsp | 0.54 tbsp
Oil (2.0%):    7.74 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.72 tsp | 0.57 tbsp
Sugar (2.0%):    7.74 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.94 tsp | 0.65 tbsp
Total (166.3%):   643.49 g | 22.7 oz | 1.42 lbs | TF = 0.1


http://s1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff479/BillsPizza86/18%20inch%20NY%20Pizza/

I know many of you have already seen this,so I'm not expecting ya to post or reply here,unless you want to again.No biggie.Just wanted to show the work to others that haven't seen it yet.

Thanks for reading!!
 :)


EDIT***
I got a few loaded here now..the others are on the link.They are still too large for me to load here just yet,but finally got some of the pictures to post.

« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 04:45:10 PM by chickenparm »
-Bill


Offline chickenparm

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2011, 10:43:45 PM »
I wanted to add a little more.

I have a 15 inch stone.I'm not able to make larger pies than 16 inches with that,unless I use a round pizza pan first or something.While I was shopping around for a stone or steel plate that will allow me to make 18 inch pies,(the largest my oven will allow) I decided to try a screen first.It was cheap too,like 4 bucks or so.

I place the screen with pizza on top of the preheated oven/heated 15 inch stone and it still works very well.The crust is a little softer but still very good to eat.The stone sort of balances the large screen and keeps it steady on the metal rack.
 :)



« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 06:22:21 PM by chickenparm »
-Bill

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2011, 10:48:04 PM »
Bill,

I think you did a terrific job of capturing the look and feel of the NY street style. I especially liked the photos of the slices on paper plates, especially the photo showing the nine slices lined up on paper plates. They remind me of the photos I find on flickr and Google image search when I am researching the NY street style pizza.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2011, 11:48:48 PM »
Bill,

I agree, those pictures really do look like NY street style slices.

Great job!  :)

Norma

Offline chickenparm

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2011, 11:49:50 PM »
Thanks for your nice words Peter!

They turned out better than I expected and the family is asking me to make more all the time.

My old oven I cook with,the whirlpool super capacity 465,is still working very well.Its about 13 years old give or take.I need to replace it,but at the same time,I'm almost afraid to.

Its cosmetically ugly and wearing out,but still has plenty of room and still gets hot enough for my pizzas.I just bought us a new Maytag H/E washer and Dryer set,and now a new fridge and oven is next!It happens in 3's doesnt it?
 :-D

That is more $$ spent and me  :'(

I guess my wife is kinda wondering why I wont just go pick out a new oven with her yet...I tell her I'm comfortable with my pizzas from that oven,and she looks at me like,"Is that all that matters to you?" I'm like, "Yeah,why do you even ask?"
 :P
Sorry,went off the topic some.Thought it was funny to share it.
 :D




-Bill

Offline chickenparm

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2011, 11:51:47 PM »
Thank you Norma! I look forward to your new pies as always!
 :)
-Bill

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2011, 09:40:51 AM »
Bill,

Very cool. I agree with Pete, you have really hit the nail on the head with that effort.

Thank you for posting.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2011, 09:51:48 AM »
CP, your slices take me back to a NY pizza tour I took a few years ago. 
Quote
I tell her I'm comfortable with my pizzas from that oven,and she looks at me like,"Is that all that matters to you?" I'm like, "Yeah,why do you even ask?"
LOL.  My oven's 16 years old and I feel the same.  Don't look forward to the learning curve when it finally bites the dust.

Offline hammettjr

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2011, 02:43:31 PM »
Outstanding Bill! Picture perfect!


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2011, 06:06:06 PM »
Great job Bill!  Your slices look outstanding!

Chau

Offline chickenparm

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2011, 06:18:02 PM »
Thanks TX,Hog,Matt and Chau and to all of you good folks for the nice words and encouragement to try harder,AND also get some pics posted as well.
 ;D

Its hard to build a better mousetrap sometimes...I still have a lot to do and learn from all of you.

Thanks for all the support.
 :)
-Bill
-Bill

scott123

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2011, 08:06:25 PM »
I need to replace it,but at the same time,I'm almost afraid to.

I'm working with a 27 year old oven and, although the burners keep shorting out and require replacement almost 3 times a year, I have no intentions of purchasing something new.  Every new oven that I've had the 'pleasure' of using has been a disappointment.  I've used $2000 ovens that were stunningly beautiful and that had features up the wazoo, but when it comes to peak temp, the reading would say 550, but it never felt like 550 to me, plus, the time it takes to reach 550, forgetaboutit.  It seems to me that they make ovens these days for people that want something pretty and with lots of bells and whistles, but not something that they'd actually use to bake much. Everything's energy saving and thoroughly emasculated.

Maybe there's a brand out there with some cajones that isn't an arm and a leg, but I'm hoping that I can squeeze at least 10 years out of my GE before I have to go looking.

The one thing that I really miss is convection.  I'll gladly forgo convection, though, for an oven with watts.

Offline chickenparm

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2011, 08:44:51 PM »
Scott,
I agree with your post.This oven I have heats up very fast and gets over 620 degrees on its own,just using the bottom burner.I don't use the broiler burner on the ceiling because I just never had the need to.

It does not have a cleaning cycle,but it does have a small exhaust relief in the back,that lets heat out through a burner on the back.I have not blocked this off,But I believe I can get the stove hotter if I do so.

I'm not out to make hotter pies yet,but the stove has been very reliable.Its has never needed any repairs and cranks out the heat quickly.So far my pies have cooked nicely in there.Even the bad ones.

Does you,or anyone know,if I blocked off half the oven,say the middle rack with foil,would it allow the bottom to get hotter where I bake on top the stone?Its a large oven inside and I feel like theres alot of wasted heat lost at times that can be used a bit better.

Thanks.
 :)



-Bill

scott123

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2011, 09:11:08 PM »
Bill, on longer bakes one can forgo the broiler and use the heat radiating off the oven ceiling walls to brown the top of the pizza, but as you increase the heat from below and have direct contact with a conductive stone, you need to use the broiler or the bottom will brown too fast.

You can isolate the bottom of the oven with foil, but... as I said, getting the right top/bottom heat ratio is very difficult on faster bakes without the broiler in effect. Now, if someone doesn't have a broiler, then they have no choice but to have to play around with isolation, false ceilings and less conductive hearths, but since you've got a broiler, I'd go the far simpler route and just use it (when you've got the right stone).

The other aspect of a foil ceiling is that, in my experience, foil tends to bounce radiation in very harsh uneven ways.  Instead of covering the entire shelf with foil, one might consider using quarry tiles and then filling in the gaps with foil. But, like I said, that's more for the broiler-less folks.

Offline chickenparm

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2011, 09:17:45 PM »
Good info for me to think about Scott.So far the heat and methods I use are fine for my NY style pies.Would like to see what else I can do with it sometime down the road.
 :)

-Bill

scott123

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2011, 09:20:22 PM »
Sounds good, Bill.

Also, I just took a look at your undercrust and it appears that your stone is actually insulating part of the crust and shielding it from the heat.  Since you seem to have a nice hot bottom burner and a shelf that's relatively close to said burner, you might try it without the stone and just the screen.

The most important aspect, as I'm sure you're aware is that the pizza goes in when the bottom burner is red hot AND the the burner stays on for the whole time. This means pre-heating the oven to a lower temp and then cranking it right before the pizza goes in.

I spent a lot of time using this technique with aluminum baking sheets, and, although I couldn't break the 8 minute bake barrier, I think you're element pumps out more heat than mine. I'm also guessing that the open holes in the screen allow more radiating heat to the contact the undercrust than may solid aluminum pan.

parallei

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2011, 09:56:25 PM »
I've never been to NY City, but those sure look like the photo's I've seen.....looking god Bill :chef:


Offline chickenparm

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2011, 10:47:25 PM »
Thank You Parallei.
 :)

Scott,
I think the crust will maybe burn if I remove the stone.That said,the stone keeps the screen steady,since the oven rack is higher and lower on opposing ends,and the large screen will tilt without it.A cut off tool can fix this,and I might try that soon.Cut the rack so its even on both ends.

I was going to try a pie without the stone,but I ran into the cheese burning last week or so and did not get around to it.Then I took a "break".
 :-D

I will for sure,try an experiment anyway.I did have a pie I made,I cooked it longer,never took pics,and the outer rim where the stone did not shield the screen,was almost BLACK.Thats what made me decide the screen alone might either need to be moved higher or temps lower without a stone under it.I really wont know til I try.

In the early 90's in NY,I had a Favorite pizza shop I would visit like 3 times a week.Not just for pizza but for subs or Wedges,chicken/pepperoni rolls,calzones or etc.One day I noticed my friend/owner/and Pizzaiola, Lou,was using screens on his pies going into the deck oven.He never did that before.

He had deck ovens and always had fantastic pies.His new pies were a little softer,easier to fold,and not as charred on the bottom.I asked him whassup with the screens,and he said that a lot of folks were complaining the past year,the crust bottom was too cooked,too well done.They had never complained before.

Thats how they came out for years.Never burnt,but perfect is the way I would describe it.I still thought it tasted good with the screens,but his style of pies I was used to was gone.Of course he would cook me any pie without a screen,I just had to ask.

I found out all these new places that were opening up,some were chains,were using screens,conveyor ovens,and I guess the majority of customers seemed to like the sweeter,softer crusts that were coming out of there,and he tried to adjust to that market some.He was,after all,a businessman and trying to keep his customers happy and coming back.

Thats at least what I gathered from him he was trying to do.My own experiments confirm it somewhat with the screens.I do prefer,a NY style crust cooked straight on the stone over a screen in the long run.
Yet for now,this allows me to make those monstrous pies.
 :)




-Bill

Offline jever4321

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2011, 11:03:19 PM »
Mmmmmmmmmmmm pizza. Great pictures Bill. This is your best looking pie IMO. Well done!
-Jay

Offline chickenparm

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2011, 11:38:06 PM »
Thanks for the nice words Jay! I have alot more pics from other pies,may post them someday,now that I got the picture sizing problem I had fixed.
 :)


-Bill

Offline Darth Pizza

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2011, 02:43:05 PM »
Awesome! thats the exact crust i want to perfect. and thickness of topping.
can you tell me the best tool to convert your mesurements to cups and tsp TBS mesurements?
thankxz

edit: i just did some conversions...
3.05 bread flour - Cup US
1 cup US
is that correct?
and ony using less than 1/2 teaspoon of IDY?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 03:18:14 PM by Darth Pizza »
May the crust be with you...

Offline chickenparm

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2011, 09:15:28 PM »
Awesome! thats the exact crust i want to perfect. and thickness of topping.
can you tell me the best tool to convert your mesurements to cups and tsp TBS mesurements?
thankxz

edit: i just did some conversions...
3.05 bread flour - Cup US
1 cup US
is that correct?
and ony using less than 1/2 teaspoon of IDY?

Lord Vader,

I'm not sure about the conversions to cups size.You may be right/close enough on target.

Also,keep in mind,while I made an 18 inch pizza,The recipe is for an 17 inch doughball with a TF of .10

I do this because its very easy for my dough to open up to 18-20 inch in size if I want it to.I could probably make the 18 inch using a 18 inch dough recipe and use a lower TF factor but I just never bothered trying to do it that way much.

Im just comfortable making pizza this way,its a balance for me I found. When I stretch the dough,the center gets thinner but never tears anymore nor gets super thin spots where sauce will leak out through the dough.

The reason I am using less yeast,when my bread machine is done kneading,it has a 1 hour rise rest time.It has a heating element inside that starts to warm the dough up.The dough begins to grow and smooth out.I leave it in for maybe 20-30 minutes,and take it out,lightly ball and oil,and put into the fridge for a 2-3 day cold rise.I never leave the dough to rise past 30 minutes.It will get too big and I would have to use it the same day.

I like to cold ferment the dough since it develops much more flavor that way.

In the past,when I used more yeast,after it was done rising in the warm machine,I got some bad bubbles or over fermenting the next day in the fridge.If you are going to mix the dough,and put it away when done kneading,you can use more yeast or what a recipe may call for.

I had to cut back due to how the machine speeds up the process a little bit.It works well for me.

I did try force lightning once but I ended up destroying the midi chlorians,I mean the yeast in the dough.
 >:D


-Bill

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2011, 09:33:54 PM »
can you tell me the best tool to convert your mesurements to cups and tsp TBS mesurements?

edit: i just did some conversions...
3.05 bread flour - Cup US
1 cup US
is that correct?
and ony using less than 1/2 teaspoon of IDY?

Darth Pizza,

You can use the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.toastguard.com/ to convert the weight of flour used in Bill's recipe to a volume quantity. I suggest that you use the Textbook flour Measurement Method as described in the calculator, along with the KABF in the pull-down menu. You can also use the same tool to convert the weight of water to a volume measurement. For the rest of the ingredients, you can use the volume quantities given in Bill's recipe.

Peter

Offline Darth Pizza

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2011, 10:44:39 PM »
chickenparm, thanks. im learning more every day. actually, i just found out that 1 lb = 4 cups of SIFTED flour.
the density of the flour matters. im just gonna get a scale. trying to perfect a pizza with volumectric mesurements just doesnt seem to fly.

Pete-zza thats an awesome tool! but like i said, im grabbing a scale from Amazon. this tool page is very good as well:
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/flour_volume_weight.html
May the crust be with you...

Offline chickenparm

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Re: 18 Inch NY Street Style Pie/Slices
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2011, 11:22:45 PM »
Darth,

I bought a digital scale from Walmart.I basically use it to measure the exact oz for how much water and the exact grams for how much flour.That is the most important to me.

I then,use the measuring spoons,the tsp/tbs etc for other ingredients.It has worked well.I don't weigh all the other dry ingredients or worry about exact measurements on the spoons.I get as close as I can by eye or what I feel looks right on the measuring spoons.My real concern is the flour/water amounts and the scale provides that for me.

To make it simple,I may be repeating myself,for example,if a recipe shows .57 tbs of salt,I just use 1/2 a tbs.

I don't get too anal about those.I wasted too much time in the beginning trying to get it all down to the exact gram or oz for the other ingredients,and it did not make a difference I could tell in the end.

I am not telling you to NOT measure anything else,I'm just saying after all the experiments I did,I found no real differences from the exact amount to the nearest tsp or tbs to matter that much.It took me some time to get comfortable with how my doughs are turning out to do so.You may need to do the same if its all new to you.
 :)


-Bill


 

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