OO flour

[TdeV]

I made an "emergency" pie yesterday with someone's recipe from this list which included the bread machine. It was a complete disaster and if I could find where I visited yesterday, I could put my remarks on the original entry. It's possible some of my measurements were off because I used my large kitchen scale for even the tiniest measurements except yeast (I had opened the mini-measure by then). The recipe used grams, OO flour and a bread machine. I also used 1 gm water = 1 ml. The dough was more like soup, so I started the dough cycle all over again and sprinkled in some OO flour and some semolina flour until it got more dry--quite a lot more flour. The original recipe called for 7-8 minutes baking on a stone but I left it in the oven for 11 minutes. I wish I had had sense enough to look at the underside of the pie because I would have left it in the oven for several more minutes (+ time for opening the door) -- maybe an extra 6-8 minutes. The pie was edible but could have been cooked much more in the middle. The crust was not cracker like - which I prefer. I did not put too much moz. cheese on it (tired of using the self-cleaning cycle), just dribbles of moz. cheese on top of thin slices of tomato, thin salami, and shaves of aged asiago. Not my best, by a long shot.

I have a couple of recipes for a bread machine, KA bread flour and a several-day-long rise in the fridge which I am using with good results, but some time ago I purchased some OO flour from KA and I thought it was about time I figured out what difference it made.

Could someone point me to a recipe using OO flour and a bread machine? Long rise is fine.

Thanks.

[Pete-zza]

TdeV,

The only "emergency" dough recipe that I am aware of that uses Caputo 00 flour and a bread machine (a Zojirushi) is the recipe given at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9876.msg85776.html#msg85776. Is that the recipe you used? If so, the dough would be fairly well hydrated (the rated absorption value for the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour is 55-57%) but not to the point where it would be like "soup". Is your bread machine also a Zojirushi"

Peter

[TdeV]

The only "emergency" dough recipe that I am aware of that uses Caputo 00 flour and a bread machine (a Zojirushi) is the recipe given at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9876.msg85776.html#msg85776. Is that the recipe you used?

Yes.

Is your bread machine also a Zojirushi"

No, it is a Mister Loaf. (Amusingly I wrote to the company in Japan to ask if it was possible to replace the ball bearings--my machine resides on the floor because it walks--and the nice Japanese gentleman who wrote back told me that my machine was last sold in the Americas in the early 1990s and I should take very good care of it because the parts weren't replaceable   ). Coincidentally, it's my second bread machine; I wore the first one out! 

The second time I took the dough out of the machine, it was quite warm.

Any ideas? (Not about what went wrong, there are too many variables for that). What I'd like is a suggestion of where to read about comparisons between KA bread flour and KA OO flour, so I can figure out how to change one of my other recipes.

And since I have your attention, Peter, I'd like to ask a question about yeast. Previously you have translated my pizza recipe(s) into one(s) which provide ingredients by % flour and also would accept a long rise in the fridge. Which I've appreciated enormously, but last time I asked my yeast question, no one answered, so I'll try again:

What would happen if I used a recipe with 3+ tsp instant yeast, but also left it for a long time in the fridge? I understand that a long rise needs less yeast, but not what effect the yeast has on the dough. I.e. what happens when one uses too much yeast?

Thanks for your insights,
Theresa

[Pete-zza]

Theresa,

Any ideas? (Not about what went wrong, there are too many variables for that). What I'd like is a suggestion of where to read about comparisons between KA bread flour and KA OO flour, so I can figure out how to change one of my other recipes.

You didn't ask for help on what went wrong but if you used the King Arthur 00 flour, that perhaps explains why you got such poor results. The KA 00 flour is a domestic clone of the Italian 00 flours, and, in my opinion, a poor version at that. The KA 00 flour has a protein content of about 7.5% as compared with around 11.5-12.5% for the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour (see Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2951.msg25328/topicseen.html#msg25328). That will affect the hydration characteristics of the two flours. Unfortunately, it is not a simple matter of just swapping out the KA 00 flour for the KA bread flour (KABF) or vice versa. Before doing that, you perhaps would want to analyze the two types of flours in some detail to see if the two flours are interchangeable in a given dough recipe. The last time I did that sort of thing was a comparison between the KA Select Artisan flour (basically an all-purpose flour) and the Caputo 00 flour, at Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1462.msg13311/topicseen.html#msg13311. I am sure that you are chomping at the bit to do a similar analysis between the KA 00 flour and the KABF, but, alas, there are no specs given by King Arthur for their KA00 flour. King Arthur only posts the specs for their flours as sold to professionals. You can read the specs for the King Arthur "Special" flour, which is the same as the retail KABF but sold to professionals, but apparently King Arthur does not view professionals as a market for their KA00 flour. I am not aware of any professional who will admit to using the KA00. You can see the Kiing Arthur specs for the Special/KABF at http://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/specifications-conventional-bakery-flour.html.

And since I have your attention, Peter, I'd like to ask a question about yeast. Previously you have translated my pizza recipe(s) into one(s) which provide ingredients by % flour and also would accept a long rise in the fridge. Which I've appreciated enormously, but last time I asked my yeast question, no one answered, so I'll try again:

What would happen if I used a recipe with 3+ tsp instant yeast, but also left it for a long time in the fridge? I understand that a long rise needs less yeast, but not what effect the yeast has on the dough. I.e. what happens when one uses too much yeast?

You didn't indicate the amount of flour in your recipe but I will assume that the amount of yeast is far more than one would want to use under normal circumstances. If the yeast is excessive, the dough may rise too fast (even while in the refrigerator if the amount of yeast is excessive) and can have a poor gluten structure that is incapable of capturing and retaining the gases of fermentation in optimal fashion. If the excessive rise is permitted to exist for too long, the dough can even collapse back on itself at some point and it might even overferment to the point of being unusable. There is a nice discussion of the need to achieve the proper balance between gas production and gas retention at http://www.theartisan.net/The_Artisan_Yeast_Treatise_Section_Two.htm under the section entitled "Fermentation Control".

Peter

[TdeV]

Thanks, Peter. I'll take up your reading suggestions about yeast.

What do I do with the KA OO flour? Donate it to a food kitchen?

Theresa

[TdeV]

Wow! I have printed out both Section I and Section II: 37 pages!

Now, I'm off to study.

Thanks.

[Pete-zza]

What do I do with the KA OO flour? Donate it to a food kitchen?

Theresa,

My recollection is that I started mixing the KA00 flour with high-gluten flour to try to clone the DiFara's dough. I think that the KA00 flour should blend pretty well with bread flour also. You might also look at the KA pizza dough recipe at http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/the-fastest-homemade-pizza-ever-recipe or other recipes that call for using the KA00 flour to make something else.

Peter