Author Topic: Brian Spangler's (Apizza Scholls) formula attempt  (Read 5455 times)

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Offline PizzaHog

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Brian Spangler's (Apizza Scholls) formula attempt
« on: April 25, 2011, 09:57:08 AM »
Thanks to life's little twists, I haven't baked a pie since Dec and am now just getting back to the forum too.  I was pretty geeked when I read the "How to get rid of the water" thread in which Brian Spangler generously shared this formula and Pete-zza generously worked out the numbers http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11994.0.html.  Never having experienced a coal oven, Hew Haven, or Apizza Scholls pie, and having just enough time to pull it off, I gave it a whirl using whatever I had on hand.  So this is not about the pie but about Brian's dough and crust.
Well, I made a few calculation errors and one boo boo, but the short story is two floured thumbs up.  Taste's vary of course as witnessed in prior threads about Apizza Scholls char level and bake but I found this crust to be more flavorful than any other I have made with commercial yeast and at least I liked it in its cloned form.
Wife:  I think this is overcooked.
Me:  Chew, crunch, chew, crunch.
Wife:  I like it softer.
Me:  Chew, crunch (now on second slice).
So of course, I baked up the second one same as the first.  I think I am a closet char head.
Great oven spring and crumb too.  The timing, which I also miscalculated, is also pretty convenient.  Whip up a polish the night before and have pizza for dinner the next day.  The char level should be adjustable for taste and I plan to experiment with that with the two balls I stuffed in the fridge yesterday.  So I decided to post about this in a separate thread for those that might have missed the original.  The only mods I made intentionally was cake yeast instead of IDY and 60% hydration.
Sorry for the poor photos, grabbed the wifeís camera since it was handy but obviously made a miscalculation there too.
Hog


Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Brian Spangler's (Apizza Scholls) formula attempt
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2011, 10:01:11 AM »
Hog - Sensational looking pizza. Would you mind letting me know what your oven setup is and at what temp you baked the pie? I have been itching to try Brian's dough for quite some time now, but I have had very little luck in a home oven setting.

John

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Brian Spangler's (Apizza Scholls) formula attempt
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2011, 10:06:33 AM »
Excellent Hog!  Details please.  Type of flour, mix times, bake times, etc.

Awesome crumb!  

Your pizza has made me forget all my manners.  Welcome back Hog.   ;D

Chau
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 10:25:29 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Brian Spangler's (Apizza Scholls) formula attempt
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2011, 10:10:58 AM »
Hog,

I agree with John and Chau. In addition to the questions they posed, can you tell us which specific recipe you used and the size of the Spangler clone you made? You might also post a link at the other thread so that others can more easily find this one.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Brian Spangler's (Apizza Scholls) formula attempt
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2011, 10:42:46 AM »
Hog,

Welcome back!  I agree with the other members, delicious looking pie!  ;D

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: Brian Spangler's (Apizza Scholls) formula attempt
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2011, 10:54:43 AM »
John
I am having the most success using the "oven in an oven", or pan trick along with the temp probe ice sleeve in my gas 550 degree f oven.  For me, it goes like this.
Adjust oven temp calibration according to manufacturerís instructions in the manual.  This adds a potential 35 degrees f.  Donít forget to set it back to factory or your wifeís cookies will burn, been there, done that.
Preheat stone on lowest oven rack at max temp for an hour.
Place two cookie sheet pans on the rack above the stone (forming a new oven ceiling if you will).  In my case this new ceiling is 4.5 inches above the rack with the stone on it and about 3 .75 inches above the stone itself.
Continue the preheat.  For me, the burner then runs an additional 6 minutes, every time, like clockwork, and I find this to be quite consistent.
As soon as the burner shuts off, launch pie and slide on ice sleeve.  By the time I close the oven door the burner is back on and stays on for the entire bake.
My cookie pans are black steel, not sure if that is significant.  They do not even completely cover the rack so I leave the gap between them in the middle, again not sure if this matters.
Also not sure what temp I am getting as I never tried to measure this variation, but will try and get some readings on the next bake.  What I am lacking is any type of air temp instant read thermo which would be handy to hang above the pie as this method puts way more heat on the top of the pie than my wimpy 12Ē broiler ever did.  Iím sure temp could be increased even more using the ice sleeve but this method for me allows consistent repeatable bakes so I am happy with it for now.  I did dry runs with various pan set ups way back and was able to read 630f with the gun thermo then.  This method with the additional preheat and ice sleeve is definitely hotter but we will see what I can measure next time.  Oven still set up from last night so here is photo inc ice sleeve.

Hog

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Brian Spangler's (Apizza Scholls) formula attempt
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2011, 11:05:11 AM »
Thanks so much for the detailed info. I will give it a try. What was the bake time on this pie?

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: Brian Spangler's (Apizza Scholls) formula attempt
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2011, 11:44:27 AM »
Thanks all!  Still not out of woods but great to have some time back, get back to some baking, and confab with you all.

Formulas:

Total
Flour (100%):    861.53 g  |  30.39 oz | 1.9 lbs
Water (60%):    516.92 g  |  18.23 oz | 1.14 lbs
CY :                 1.438 g | 
Salt (2%)   17.23 g | 0.61 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.09 tsp | 1.03 tbsp
Olive Oil (1.5%):    12.92 g | 0.46 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.87 tsp | 0.96 tbsp
Total (164.94%):   1421 g | 50.12 oz | 3.13 lbs | TF = N/A
Single Ball:   355.25 g | 12.53 oz | 0.78 lbs

Polish
Flour 173.77g
CY 0.29g
Water 173.77g

Whatever you call the balance left & mixed with the polish
Flour    695g
Water    347.54g
CY   1.148g
Salt (2%):   17.38 g | 0.61 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.11 tsp | 1.04 tbsp
Olive Oil (1.5%):   13.03 g | 0.46 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.9 tsp | 0.97 tbsp
Total (163.548%):   1421 g | 50.12 oz | 3.13 lbs | TF = N/A
Single Ball:   355.25 g | 12.53 oz | 0.78 lbs

Although I attempted to duplicate Brianís formula with CY I did not quite calculate this correctly and you will find my percentages above are not quite right but the weights are what I used.
From here things take some further departures.
Polish went for 13 hours at about 64 degrees, 10 degrees lower than Brian reported but same time as his.
I mixed by hand minimally, then did 3 way stretch and folds about every 45 minutes for the next 4 hours, 5 times, then balled them up.  They ended up about 345g each.  But at this stage the dough was not there yet.  It improved with each stretch and fold but was not as developed as it should be.  So I ended up testing and reballing I think 3 times over the next 2 hours.  At this point it was better but still not there and time forced me to let it go.  2 hours later I stretched them out to 14Ē and baked for 5 minutes vs the 7 minutes per Brian.  The flour was Better for Bread which I had sitting in the pantry and had never tried.  Good fortune for me as this is what Brian uses.
So lots to change on the next attempt and considering how well this turned out, I canít wait to try it again.
Hog
PS  Peter, I will post a link as you suggest.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 12:55:23 PM by PizzaHog »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Brian Spangler's (Apizza Scholls) formula attempt
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2011, 12:11:30 PM »
I think I am a closet char head.
I am too.

Great looking pie. I love the crumb. That's just what I like to see in mine.

CL
Pizza is not bread.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Brian Spangler's (Apizza Scholls) formula attempt
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2011, 12:18:05 PM »
Hog - Thanks again for the detailed info. If you triple Brian's IDY percentage to use CY, it should be 0.14349% for the total formula.

John
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 12:19:52 PM by dellavecchia »


Offline PizzaHog

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Re: Brian Spangler's (Apizza Scholls) formula attempt
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2011, 12:36:25 PM »
Hog - Thanks again for the detailed info. If you triple Brian's IDY percentage to use CY, it should be 0.14349% for the total formula.

John

Another mistake while cutting and pasting.  Thanks for catching that!  Edited and corrected.

Offline scott r

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Re: Brian Spangler's (Apizza Scholls) formula attempt
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2011, 02:52:03 PM »
Beautiful pie!    I have to say, this spangler recipe is a big winner at my house as well.   I just love it, and although the flavor isn't quite as good, im not missing starters at all right now and the texture is just amazing.   Do yourself a favor and go ahead and try brians higher hydration next time.  I think it will please both you and your wife (char yet not overcooked in the middle).    For me the sweet spot is right at about 68-70% with this flour/recipe.   With this wetter dough you will definitely need to do some more mixing up front.   

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Brian Spangler's (Apizza Scholls) formula attempt
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2011, 03:13:57 PM »
Those looks so damn good.I love the char and the well done look to it.Nice work!
 :pizza:
-Bill

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: Brian Spangler's (Apizza Scholls) formula attempt
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2011, 09:18:25 AM »
Thanks CP, TX, & Scott, but all the credit here goes to Mr Spangler for this most excellent formula.
Baked up the last 2 balls after about 25 hrs in the fridge.  Dough was more developed and handled much better.  Even more oven spring if thats possible, same great crumb and texture, and less charring as might be expected with the additional proofing time but still had the crisp factor working.  Not sure which bake I liked better, they were both just excellent IMHO, and I'm already thinking about other possibilites with this adaptable formula.  I will definately be trying higher hydration, thanks Scott r for that suggestion.
John, I forgot to get temps during the bake!  Sorry about that.  It finally dawned on me at the end but all I could get then was a few shots with the gun as I pulled the last pie out.  At that point, the oven floor was 780 and the wall at the level of the pie was 685.  Not really meaningful but at least shows things are getting hot in there.     
Hog

Offline jever4321

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Re: Brian Spangler's (Apizza Scholls) formula attempt
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2011, 11:03:54 AM »
Your pies look awesome. Well done!
-Jay

Offline sfspanky

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Re: Brian Spangler's (Apizza Scholls) formula attempt
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2012, 01:27:47 AM »
This thread makes me happy. Awesome results Hog!



Brian Spangler
Apizza Scholls

Offline SteveVit

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Re: Brian Spangler's (Apizza Scholls) formula attempt
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2012, 11:34:40 AM »
I tried your recipe, not bad.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 11:36:46 AM by SteveVit »
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