Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?

[Matthew]

Matt,

What do you think is the difference from the strutto you use and the manteca I used?  Can you tell me what you think strutto adds to your doughs you use strutto for.  Do you mind telling me where you purchase the strutto?

Thanks,

Norma

Norma,
I imagine that it would be quite similar to strutto.  I prefer it because I think it adds a rustic quality to the finished product.  I buy it at a specialty supermarket close to me.

[norma427]

Peter,

I think it would be a good idea to see if I can find the sanitized versions to compare against the manteca I used.  Thanks for providing links to the brands of lard that are sold in stores around where you live.  I might have to go into Lancaster to one the Hispanic small stores to see if they sell the versions like you have access to. 

I would like to use the manteca all the time in the preferment Lehmann dough but the size container I bought was 5.00.  That is too expensive to put into my preferment Lehmann dough all the time.

I would like to run another test with the manteca though.  I wonder what would happen if I use it in a Reinhart dough that also has a good amount of oil added in combination with honey.  I had talked to Steve about that yesterday.  I wonder if the honey in combination with  amounts of manteca would make the crust burn too fast.  I also wonder how a higher hydration dough would do with manteca and also being mixed in the UBM.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma,
I imagine that it would be quite similar to strutto.  I prefer it because I think it adds a rustic quality to the finished product.  I buy it at a specialty supermarket close to me.

Matt,

Thanks for telling me you imagine that the manteca is similar to strutto.  I have only one Italian small store near me and I don’t think they sell strutto, but will have to check.  It is interesting that you think strutto adds a rustic quality.  Do you think it also adds to the taste of the crust?

Norma

[Matthew]

Matt,

Do you think it also adds to the taste of the crust?

Norma

Absolutely.

[norma427]

Absolutely.

Thanks Matt.  You are always way far ahead of most of us pizzamakers!    You usually try other things out before the rest of us.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I would like to run another test with the manteca though.  I wonder what would happen if I use it in a Reinhart dough that also has a good amount of oil added in combination with honey.  I had talked to Steve about that yesterday.  I wonder if the honey in combination with  amounts of manteca would make the crust burn too fast.  I also wonder how a higher hydration dough would do with manteca and also being mixed in the UBM.

Norma,

There is nothing that says that you have to use your UBM to make a modified Reinhart dough, although I think the UBM should work with the higher hydration and the manteca so long as you make a large enough dough batch--such as the last one. Offhand, I can't see how the manteca will affect the development of the crust color. If it does, then you may need to use a pizza screen to slow things down.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

There is nothing that says that you have to use your UBM to make a modified Reinhart dough, although I think the UBM should work with the higher hydration and the manteca so long as you make a large enough dough batch--such as the last one. Offhand, I can't see how the manteca will affect the development of the crust color. If it does, then you may need to use a pizza screen to slow things down.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for your advise.  I will see if I have time this coming week or the next week to try out a Reinhart dough in the UBM with manteca. 

I did reheat the slice of the Lehmann dough with manteca and it was really good today too.

Norma

[norma427]

I am going to delay the Reinhart dough experiment in my UBM machine until next week, because I still have the one Lehmann dough ball made with manteca.  The Lehmann dough ball with manteca is still cold fermenting in my refrigerator this morning.  I am going to let it there until tonight and then freeze it, to be used on Tuesday. 

The top and bottom of the dough ball look fine, with a few specks on top of the dough ball.

Pictures below

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

Today, while I was in a local supermarket that caters mainly to a Hispanic clientele, I saw the liquid-like manteca that I mentioned previously. The containers were see-through containers that allowed me to see what looked like a layer of dark colored oil on top of a much more substantial white lard mass. As I shook the container, I saw that the oil and the lard started to combine. There were actually two brands at the store, one from a company called Chema Food Products out of Houston, and a house brand that exhibited the same characteristics as the Chema brand. Both were under $3, with the house brand being slightly cheaper. I didn't pay attention to the quantity but I would estimate that it was perhaps 20-something ounces.

I also saw the completely solid Armour manteca (lard), from small packages to 8-pound tubs, and also the Mrs. Tucker vegetable/lard product.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Today, while I was in a local supermarket that caters mainly to a Hispanic clientele, I saw the liquid-like manteca that I mentioned previously. The containers were see-through containers that allowed me to see what looked like a layer of dark colored oil on top of a much more substantial white lard mass. As I shook the container, I saw that the oil and the lard started to combine. There were actually two brands at the store, one from a company called Chema Food Products out of Houston, and a house brand that exhibited the same characteristics as the Chema brand. Both were under $3, with the house brand being slightly cheaper. I didn't pay attention to the quantity but I would estimate that it was perhaps 20-something ounces.

I also saw the completely solid Armour manteca (lard), from small packages to 8-pound tubs, and also the Mrs. Tucker vegetable/lard product.

Peter

Peter,

I didn’t get to check at the Hispanic stores in Lancaster as of today for the manteca or the other lards you have mentioned. You manteca products sounds like it is a lot cheaper than mine, at least so far.  Maybe next week if I have time, I will check in Lancaster. The manteca I purchased is 24 oz.  This is what it looks like if anyone is interested, since it has been in the refrigerator. 

Norma

[dmcavanagh]

Norma, neat looking "bread maker", I just checked it out on Google and eBay. What is the history behind yours, it is probably a fasinating story.

[norma427]

Norma, neat looking "bread maker", I just checked it out on Google and eBay. What is the history behind yours, it is probably a fasinating story.

dmcavanagh,

I had this bread maker for about 15 years, and just kept it under my desk in the kitchen, but put it into the shed to make more room in the kitchen, for about the last 6 years.  My son bought me the bread maker, but I don’t know where he purchased it.  My son knows I do like antiques.  I never even tried to use it before, but found it fascinating, because I like how products were constructed years ago.  Even the original tags were inside the bread maker, so I don’t really know if anyone ever used it to make bread.  I wish I had more history on the UBM, but I don’t.  My grandmother had a wood fired stove in her kitchen and used to bake bread when I was small, but I don’t remember how she made the bread.  I just remember the wood stove and it making the kitchen warm (my grandparents didn’t even have any other heat in their house).  My grandmother and grandfather didn’t even have a bathroom inside.  They just had an outhouse and I remember not liking going to the outhouse.  If I slept overnight (which wasn’t much), if you needed to go to the bathroom, we needed to use a chamber bucket.  I still have one of those chamber buckets in my bathroom to hold other stuff. 

The UBM did make good dough quickly.  I am going to test it out more on other doughs in the future.

Norma

[dmcavanagh]

Norma

I know all about outhouses and  chamber buckets, we had a camp on the St. Lawrence RIver which was equipted likewise. The bread maker was made in the early 1900's in the northeast. Amazing that they are still around and fuctional, shows how well things were made back then in the good old US of A. Thanks for the info. Did you notice my post in Chat about Adam Kuban from SLICE? Be sure to check it out.

[norma427]

Norma

I know all about outhouses and  chamber buckets, we had a camp on the St. Lawrence RIver which was equipted likewise. The bread maker was made in the early 1900's in the northeast. Amazing that they are still around and fuctional, shows how well things were made back then in the good old US of A. Thanks for the info. Did you notice my post in Chat about Adam Kuban from SLICE? Be sure to check it out.

dmcavanagh,

Good to hear someone else knows about outhouses and chamber buckets and have used them.  That darn outhouse was always full of spiders and was scary for me, but if I had to go to the bathroom, I needed to use it.  I know my grandmother also just kept big magazines in there to wipe. Just rip off a page. I thought that was weird too. 

The UBM is made well and on the lid, it says it was made in 1904.  I do think things were made better back in the old days. 

I did see your post on Adam Kuban leaving Slice.  I will miss reading what he posts, but it sounds like he found a great job.  I guess he was like the moderators here on this forum, always having to check on what was going on and finding ways to keep slicers interested.

Norma

[norma427]

The extra Lehmann dough ball with manteca, that was made in the UBM, was made into a pizza yesterday.  I had left the dough in the refrigerator until Friday evening.  By that time there was one big bubble on top of the dough ball. The dough had cold fermented for 5 days, and then was frozen until Monday, when it was left in the deli case to thaw until yesterday.

I left the Lehmann dough ball with added manteca warm-up at market yesterday for about 2 hrs.  The dough ball was easy to open.  The pizza baked fine and this time there was no screen needed to keep the bottom crust from browning too much. 

This pizza had a much better flavor in the crust than last week, and there was no oily feeling, when eating the crust.  Steve, a couple of stand holders and I thought this pizza was very tasty with the added manteca. 

Pictures below

Norma

[norma427]

more pictures

Norma

[norma427]

end of pictures

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

It looks like your experiments confirm that lard can be used successfully with a pizza dough such as the Lehmann dough. Do you plan to use lard with your preferment Lehmann dough at market? I raise this question since there still seems to be a stigma attached to lard that might discourage some customers if they knew that you were using lard in the dough. No doubt that was a consideration that prompted Sbarro to discontinue using lard in its doughs several years ago.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

It looks like your experiments confirm that lard can be used successfully with a pizza dough such as the Lehmann dough. Do you plan to use lard with your preferment Lehmann dough at market? I raise this question since there still seems to be a stigma attached to lard that might discourage some customers if they knew that you were using lard in the dough. No doubt that was a consideration that prompted Sbarro to discontinue using lard in its doughs several years ago.

Peter

Peter,

Yes, the experiments did confirm that manteca can be used sucessfully in the Lehmann dough.  The taste of the crust with the manteca was a lot better for my taste testers, Steve’s and my opinion, but I don’t know if I will be using manteca (lard) in the preferment Lehmann dough.  I think I am going to test manteca in the preferment Lehmann dough next in the UBM.

I really don’t know how bad lard is in a pizza dough, or if I will eventually use it, but find the taste it adds interesting.  The Lehmann dough with manteca that was fermented for longer really had a better flavor in the crust than other oils I have tried.  I still have to try and find some of that other lard you had posted about.   

I also want to contact the company in NJ, that makes the manteca I used, to see if they sell it anywhere near me in wholesale prices.

Norma

[norma427]

I wasn’t able to look at what kind of lards they might carry at Hispanic stores in Lancaster, but I called a big supermarket in Lancaster and they do carry Goya manteca (lard) for 5.95 a bucket. 2 ½ lb.  If I go into Lancaster does anyone think this manteca would be different than the manteca I had purchased?  It does seem to be different, than the manteca I purchased, because it does add other ingredients so it doesn’t have to be refrigerated. http://www.wegmans.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10052&catalogId=1&productId=389705

I also will call other smaller food stores in Lancaster to see what kind of lard they sell in Hispanic neighborhoods.

I don’t know if the Goya manteca would be a good comparison to the manteca I used or not.

Just how bad is this kind of lard or manteca (compared to olive oil in a pizza dough) for a person that is only eating a slice or a few slices?

Norma