Author Topic: So it begins.....  (Read 29293 times)

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Offline wheelman

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #50 on: September 08, 2011, 06:59:24 PM »
Jeff, man that's awsome!  what an amazing low-dome oven you have there.  congrats.  i've heard reference to a "double dome" for the vent.  do you have any idea about that?  i assume it means that the chimney leads to a void between the oven roof layer and another layer to utilize the heat of the exhaust.  maybe Craig will tell us how his smoke makes its way from the door to the pipe on top..
bill


Offline shuboyje

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #51 on: September 08, 2011, 08:41:54 PM »
The sand form is out.  I'm pretty happy with the results, it looks similar to other domes I've seen built over a sand form.  There are certainly some voids in mortar on inside, but nothing I'm concerned about, again every sand form dome I've seen has them.  I tried hard to avoid it, but obviously it is just gonna be that way.  Out of curiosity I tested the depth of the voids with a thin piece of metal and found them to be 1/4" at the deepest.  The dome height ended up right on at 12.75".

The double dome has been documented in Steffano Ferrara build pictures.  It is basically a vent transition that routes back over the oven and exits in the center.  I plan to follow that plan but use modern materials and methods in place of the methods he uses...which in my opinion look like it is cobbled together from scraps and rubble.... 
-Jeff

Offline JConk007

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #52 on: September 08, 2011, 09:15:08 PM »
Looks awsome ! Nice work! I took a good hard loook inside the dual stephanos at Vesta and you are very close this baby will get it done for sure who needs forno ?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 09:19:10 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #53 on: September 08, 2011, 10:04:49 PM »
Jeff, very impressive and very cool.

Craig
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #54 on: September 20, 2011, 12:14:31 PM »

The double dome has been documented in Steffano Ferrara build pictures.  It is basically a vent transition that routes back over the oven and exits in the center.  I plan to follow that plan but use modern materials and methods in place of the methods he uses...which in my opinion look like it is cobbled together from scraps and rubble.... 

Jeff - I am really interested to see you do this. The SF builds look like they are using terra cotta tiles of some sort. I imagine you have a plan for another materials - very exciting to see what you do.

John

Offline shuboyje

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #55 on: September 20, 2011, 10:29:50 PM »
John,

It's finally underway after changing my mind 3 times on how to do it.  I think I've got the easiest way to a result I will be happy with.  I'll get some pics when there is something worth taking them of.  This has turned out to be a much tougher part of the build then I expected.
-Jeff

Offline Essen1

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #56 on: September 20, 2011, 10:37:04 PM »
Jeff,

That's really impressive! I wish I had the real estate to build a WFO. Great job.
Mike

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Offline shuboyje

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #57 on: October 12, 2011, 05:46:50 PM »
Just finished the last few pieces that have been holding up the vent a few minutes ago.  I'll hopefully have some pictures of progress in the next few days.
-Jeff

Offline thezaman

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #58 on: October 12, 2011, 08:11:10 PM »
jeff, this has been a fascinating  read. you are very skilled. i cannot wait for your next progress report. 


Offline forzaroma

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #59 on: October 13, 2011, 10:14:35 AM »
Did you take any pics of the form that was made for the sand mold?

Offline Ev

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2011, 10:56:08 AM »
I've read that the opening height should be 63% of the dome height for maximum efficiency. I'm not sure if that applies to low-dome ovens or not. Did you follow that "rule"?

Offline shuboyje

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2011, 12:18:06 PM »
My dome is 12.75 inches high.  That is based off the height of a three centered arch with a 42" base, which I strongly believe is how the dome height of neapolitan ovens are determined.  My door in 8 inches high, which is almost exactly 63% and almost exactly the same size and the cast entries used in Naples. 
-Jeff

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #62 on: October 13, 2011, 12:48:10 PM »
My dome is 12.75 inches high.  That is based off the height of a three centered arch with a 42" base, which I strongly believe is how the dome height of neapolitan ovens are determined. 

Jeff, can you elaborate. If you based the height off the base, doesn't that ignore the 3rd center? Moving the center along the y-axis also affects the height of the arch.

CL
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline shuboyje

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #63 on: October 13, 2011, 04:49:27 PM »
A three centered arch as I referred to is laid out in a certain way, which is completely dependent on it's base width.  I'll post a much more detailed explanation later when I'm off my iPhone.
-Jeff

Offline shuboyje

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #64 on: October 13, 2011, 07:48:22 PM »
Ok, so here is a bit about three centered arches and the history of my interest in them:

It all starts with my study of Marco's posts, specifically his posts about Neapolitan ovens.  The images in the first post of the following link burned into my mind.  I've read that thread begining to end many times.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1118.0.html

One day while researching arches I came across the following web page:
http://chestofbooks.com/architecture/Building-Trades-Pocketbook/Arch.html

The arch labeled (m) on that page instantly jumped out on me.  It looked like a pizza oven, but not just any pizza oven, the one described in Marco's posts.  I then noticed that the way it was laid out, the height of the arch was controlled by the base width, just like Marco's description of the oven height being a ratio of the diameter.  Now my wheels were really turning.  I loaded up my cad software and began to draw 3 centered arches of multiple base widths.  In each and every case the resulting height was very near d/3.4 .  That really sealed it for me.  It just makes sense.  The three centered arch is an old and common structural shape used in masonry.  It's something a mason hundreds of years ago would have been familiar with.  Now obviously the Neapolitan ovens using a standing soldier resulting in a modification of the arch, but the height ends up the same.   
-Jeff

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #65 on: October 13, 2011, 08:20:44 PM »
That is a great observation, and I think you're right in selecting it. I love your design. From a purely mathematical standpoint, there are a couple variables other than the witdh of the base that define the arch. Namely the location of two centers on the x-axis and the third on the y-axis. Not all 3-center arches are close to the d/3.4 ratio. A semicircle is technically a 3-center arch with all three centers on the x-axis (y=0 on the middle center). Likewise, it can also be almost flat if the two centers on the x-axis are at the edge of the arch and the center on the y-axis is pulled way down. The arch approaches flat as the center on the y-axis approaches negative infinity.
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline shuboyje

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #66 on: October 13, 2011, 08:26:55 PM »
Sorry again, lol.  I should have clarified that when I say three centered arch, I mean it to describe an arch with the 3 centers as described in that diagram.  This seems to be the classic and standard 3 centered arch in masonry, and when the term is used this is what it is understood to mean.  When laid out as described this type of three centered arch will be dependent only on the base width and the resulting height will be very near d/3.4 . 
-Jeff


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #67 on: October 13, 2011, 11:32:20 PM »
Sorry again, lol.  I should have clarified that when I say three centered arch, I mean it to describe an arch with the 3 centers as described in that diagram.  This seems to be the classic and standard 3 centered arch in masonry, and when the term is used this is what it is understood to mean.  When laid out as described this type of three centered arch will be dependent only on the base width and the resulting height will be very near d/3.4 . 

I see why it is the standard. It is certainly the most asthetically pleasing. It's interesting that is seems to be the ideal for a Neapolitan oven too.
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #68 on: October 14, 2011, 09:42:23 AM »
...
One day while researching arches I came across the following web page:
http://chestofbooks.com/architecture/Building-Trades-Pocketbook/Arch.html

The arch labeled (m) on that page instantly jumped out on me....

Thanks for finding and posting that reference.  How did you make sure that the sand form was exactly that shape?  Did you measure down to the sand from some point above to make sure that it was the shape that you wanted or just eyeball it?
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #69 on: October 14, 2011, 10:41:48 AM »
I would make a form out of foamboard or plywood and use it to shape the sand.
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline forzaroma

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2011, 10:58:28 AM »
Does the board/Plywood lay flat and then the sand is shaped to a dome?



I would make a form out of foamboard or plywood and use it to shape the sand.

Offline shuboyje

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #71 on: October 14, 2011, 01:36:47 PM »
I personally did not use that exact shape, only the dome height it generates. I wanted a higher soldier course then is the norm allowing my soldier to be the same height as my door.  I formed the sand using a profile gauge cut out of sheet metal.
-Jeff

Offline shuboyje

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #72 on: October 15, 2011, 07:20:29 PM »
Finally got the vent up.  I think in this case a picture is worth a thousand words about what I've done.  It was a real pain to get this all together, I took it apart three times and redid it.  If I am still happy with it tomorrow when the mortar is set up firm I'll make a template for the top and cast it.  I already have the 8" round stainless piece that will go in the top fabricated and ready to go.
-Jeff

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #73 on: October 15, 2011, 10:38:50 PM »
That is a perfect exhaust done in stone. Just like the pictures that Marco posted, that I have drooled over.  I, also copied that design.

Thanks. :chef:
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Offline shuboyje

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Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #74 on: October 18, 2011, 09:14:07 PM »
Got the last casting in the form today.  Can't wait to get it on so I can insulate over top of the dome.
-Jeff


 

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