Author Topic: So it begins.....  (Read 24944 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ev

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1816
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Lancaster Co. Pa.
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2011, 10:56:08 AM »
I've read that the opening height should be 63% of the dome height for maximum efficiency. I'm not sure if that applies to low-dome ovens or not. Did you follow that "rule"?


Offline shuboyje

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1162
  • Location: Detroit
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2011, 12:18:06 PM »
My dome is 12.75 inches high.  That is based off the height of a three centered arch with a 42" base, which I strongly believe is how the dome height of neapolitan ovens are determined.  My door in 8 inches high, which is almost exactly 63% and almost exactly the same size and the cast entries used in Naples. 
-Jeff

Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 13316
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #62 on: October 13, 2011, 12:48:10 PM »
My dome is 12.75 inches high.  That is based off the height of a three centered arch with a 42" base, which I strongly believe is how the dome height of neapolitan ovens are determined. 

Jeff, can you elaborate. If you based the height off the base, doesn't that ignore the 3rd center? Moving the center along the y-axis also affects the height of the arch.

CL
Pizza is not bread.

Offline shuboyje

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1162
  • Location: Detroit
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #63 on: October 13, 2011, 04:49:27 PM »
A three centered arch as I referred to is laid out in a certain way, which is completely dependent on it's base width.  I'll post a much more detailed explanation later when I'm off my iPhone.
-Jeff

Offline shuboyje

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1162
  • Location: Detroit
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #64 on: October 13, 2011, 07:48:22 PM »
Ok, so here is a bit about three centered arches and the history of my interest in them:

It all starts with my study of Marco's posts, specifically his posts about Neapolitan ovens.  The images in the first post of the following link burned into my mind.  I've read that thread begining to end many times.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1118.0.html

One day while researching arches I came across the following web page:
http://chestofbooks.com/architecture/Building-Trades-Pocketbook/Arch.html

The arch labeled (m) on that page instantly jumped out on me.  It looked like a pizza oven, but not just any pizza oven, the one described in Marco's posts.  I then noticed that the way it was laid out, the height of the arch was controlled by the base width, just like Marco's description of the oven height being a ratio of the diameter.  Now my wheels were really turning.  I loaded up my cad software and began to draw 3 centered arches of multiple base widths.  In each and every case the resulting height was very near d/3.4 .  That really sealed it for me.  It just makes sense.  The three centered arch is an old and common structural shape used in masonry.  It's something a mason hundreds of years ago would have been familiar with.  Now obviously the Neapolitan ovens using a standing soldier resulting in a modification of the arch, but the height ends up the same.   
-Jeff

Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 13316
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #65 on: October 13, 2011, 08:20:44 PM »
That is a great observation, and I think you're right in selecting it. I love your design. From a purely mathematical standpoint, there are a couple variables other than the witdh of the base that define the arch. Namely the location of two centers on the x-axis and the third on the y-axis. Not all 3-center arches are close to the d/3.4 ratio. A semicircle is technically a 3-center arch with all three centers on the x-axis (y=0 on the middle center). Likewise, it can also be almost flat if the two centers on the x-axis are at the edge of the arch and the center on the y-axis is pulled way down. The arch approaches flat as the center on the y-axis approaches negative infinity.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline shuboyje

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1162
  • Location: Detroit
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #66 on: October 13, 2011, 08:26:55 PM »
Sorry again, lol.  I should have clarified that when I say three centered arch, I mean it to describe an arch with the 3 centers as described in that diagram.  This seems to be the classic and standard 3 centered arch in masonry, and when the term is used this is what it is understood to mean.  When laid out as described this type of three centered arch will be dependent only on the base width and the resulting height will be very near d/3.4 . 
-Jeff

Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 13316
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #67 on: October 13, 2011, 11:32:20 PM »
Sorry again, lol.  I should have clarified that when I say three centered arch, I mean it to describe an arch with the 3 centers as described in that diagram.  This seems to be the classic and standard 3 centered arch in masonry, and when the term is used this is what it is understood to mean.  When laid out as described this type of three centered arch will be dependent only on the base width and the resulting height will be very near d/3.4 . 

I see why it is the standard. It is certainly the most asthetically pleasing. It's interesting that is seems to be the ideal for a Neapolitan oven too.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Jet_deck

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3044
  • Location: Between Houston and Mexico
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #68 on: October 14, 2011, 09:42:23 AM »
...
One day while researching arches I came across the following web page:
http://chestofbooks.com/architecture/Building-Trades-Pocketbook/Arch.html

The arch labeled (m) on that page instantly jumped out on me....

Thanks for finding and posting that reference.  How did you make sure that the sand form was exactly that shape?  Did you measure down to the sand from some point above to make sure that it was the shape that you wanted or just eyeball it?
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 13316
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #69 on: October 14, 2011, 10:41:48 AM »
I would make a form out of foamboard or plywood and use it to shape the sand.
Pizza is not bread.


Offline forzaroma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 384
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2011, 10:58:28 AM »
Does the board/Plywood lay flat and then the sand is shaped to a dome?



I would make a form out of foamboard or plywood and use it to shape the sand.

Offline shuboyje

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1162
  • Location: Detroit
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #71 on: October 14, 2011, 01:36:47 PM »
I personally did not use that exact shape, only the dome height it generates. I wanted a higher soldier course then is the norm allowing my soldier to be the same height as my door.  I formed the sand using a profile gauge cut out of sheet metal.
-Jeff

Offline shuboyje

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1162
  • Location: Detroit
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #72 on: October 15, 2011, 07:20:29 PM »
Finally got the vent up.  I think in this case a picture is worth a thousand words about what I've done.  It was a real pain to get this all together, I took it apart three times and redid it.  If I am still happy with it tomorrow when the mortar is set up firm I'll make a template for the top and cast it.  I already have the 8" round stainless piece that will go in the top fabricated and ready to go.
-Jeff

Offline Jet_deck

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3044
  • Location: Between Houston and Mexico
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #73 on: October 15, 2011, 10:38:50 PM »
That is a perfect exhaust done in stone. Just like the pictures that Marco posted, that I have drooled over.  I, also copied that design.

Thanks. :chef:
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline shuboyje

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1162
  • Location: Detroit
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #74 on: October 18, 2011, 09:14:07 PM »
Got the last casting in the form today.  Can't wait to get it on so I can insulate over top of the dome.
-Jeff

Offline shuboyje

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1162
  • Location: Detroit
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #75 on: November 05, 2011, 10:04:24 PM »
The cold weather got here way to fast and I had to put the pedal to the metal to get this oven ready before winter.  Sadly that means I've done a ton of work since my last update and don't have much to show along the way.  Luckily none of it is rocket science and I will glady answer questions and walk anyone through the process if need be, just ask.  Here is the oven as it sits today with the stucco finished.  I'll begin curing fires tomorrow.  This is basically how she will stay until the spring when I will tile her up nice and fancy.  I'm thrilled with the result and hope she cooks half as good as I think she looks!

PS: For anybody curious I rolled the oven out of the garage and onto the patio today by myself.  With quality casters made for the weight it is not an issue at all once the wheels are aligned.  The trick to getting the wheels align is to simply use a lever, like a 4 x 4, to point the oven where you want to go.  Once that is done it rolls so easy my mother could do it.
-Jeff

Offline wheelman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 849
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #76 on: November 06, 2011, 12:01:07 AM »
Jeff, that's amazing!  nice work.
bill

Offline JConk007

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 3726
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Lovin my Oven!
    • Flirting with Fire
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #77 on: November 06, 2011, 07:18:14 AM »
WOW Really cool !! I have never seen anyone DYI / build the vent Nice work!
Pizzas will be flying soon
Watch out Stephano  :D
John
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline Jet_deck

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3044
  • Location: Between Houston and Mexico
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #78 on: November 06, 2011, 07:49:38 AM »
I'm thrilled with the result and hope she cooks half as good as I think she looks!


I think it looks great and can't wait to see some pizza come out of that bad boy.
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline BrickStoneOven

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1599
  • Location: Boston
Re: So it begins.....
« Reply #79 on: November 06, 2011, 09:13:48 AM »
Amazing job, can't wait to see it in action and the finished tiling. How are you going to have the landing site in front? Are you going to have marble in front or are you going to do it like the neapolitan ovens with the metal plate in the middle and marble on the sides?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 09:16:43 AM by BrickStoneOven »