Author Topic: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday  (Read 51228 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #325 on: July 12, 2011, 07:16:56 PM »
Norma,,

I thought that you (and possibly other members who have been following this thread) may be interested in the BakingBusiness.com article on sodium and salt at http://www.bakingbusiness.com/News/News%20Home/Features/2011/7/A%20Grain%20of%20Salt.aspx. The article addresses the desire on the part of health officials and professionals to reduce sodium in peoples' diets but how doing so poses challenges to bakers because of the strong functional role that salt plays in yeasted dough products and that sodium plays in chemical leavening systems. You will note that the article also discusses some of the alternatives to sodium-based chemical leavening systems. I have seen very few signs of such alternatives in the mixes that we have been studying.

Peter
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 10:23:55 PM by Pete-zza »


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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #326 on: July 12, 2011, 10:14:37 PM »
Norma,,

I thought that you (and possibly other members who have been following this thread) may be interested in the BakingBusiness.com article on sodium and salt at http://www.bakingbusiness.com/Features/Formulating%20and%20R%20and%20D/2011/7/A%20Grain%20of%20Salt.aspx. The article addresses the desire on the part of health officials and professionals to reduce sodium in peoples' diets but how doing so poses challenges to bakers because of the strong functional role that salt plays in yeasted dough products and that sodium plays in chemical leavening systems. You will note that the article also discusses some of the alternatives to sodium-based chemical leavening systems. I have seen very few signs of such alternatives in the mixes that we have been studying.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for posting the link to the interesting article about reducing salt in different bakery products.  I didn’t even realize until you posted the article, that chemical leavening systems also add salt.  I don’t know why I didn’t think about that before.  I also didn’t know the researchers found that reducing salt levels to as low as 1.8%  helped not only achieve sodium reduction but also save energy through shorter mixing time while obtaining bread of good quality.

I  thought the part of the article that you referenced about according to information from Clabber Girl, up to 50% of the sodium in chemically leavened bakery products can come from the baking powder.  The part of the article about Cranbury, NJ-based Innophos supplies calcium-based leavening acids that can replace the usual sodium-based acids in conventional baking powder without affecting the process or product profile. Calcium-based leavening systems include blends of calcium acid pyrophosphate (CAPP) and monocalcium phosphate (MCP) and remove the guess work in formulation since replacement can be done on a 1:1 basis, and substitution can lead to sodium reduction of as much as 25%., is also interesting.

I haven’t seen many alternatives in the mixes we have been studying either, but somewhere I did read about other alternatives for double acting baking powder. 

I don't know if other members can read the article you referenced if they want to.  I did have to add my email before I could read the article, but I do get emails from BakingBusiness.com each Friday. It was easy for me to read the article.

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #327 on: July 12, 2011, 10:28:09 PM »
Norma,

I replaced the earlier BakingBusiness.com link to the article with another link (http://www.bakingbusiness.com/News/News%20Home/Features/2011/7/A%20Grain%20of%20Salt.aspx) that may not require registration to read.

Technically, the chemical leavening systems do not add salt, but rather sodium. That is what you see in Nutrition Facts.

Peter

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #328 on: July 12, 2011, 11:07:19 PM »
Norma,

I replaced the earlier BakingBusiness.com link to the article with another link (http://www.bakingbusiness.com/News/News%20Home/Features/2011/7/A%20Grain%20of%20Salt.aspx) that may not require registration to read.

Technically, the chemical leavening systems do not add salt, but rather sodium. That is what you see in Nutrition Facts.

Peter

Peter,

The link you now posted doesn’t need an email.  Isn’t salt and sodium the same thing?  When I looked at double acting baking powder before, I didn’t think about sodium being like salt. 

Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #329 on: July 13, 2011, 11:09:23 AM »
Norma,

Sodium (Na) is a metallic element. Salt, or sodium chloride (NaCl), is a compound formed by an ionic bond of sodium (Na) and chlorine (Cl). Baking soda, or sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) is a sodium-containing compound and is somewhat salty and alkaline in taste but it is not a substitute for salt. When you see Nutrition Facts for a product like the GM Betty Crocker mixes that includes salt and baking soda in the ingredients list, the sodium listed in the Nutrition Facts is the combined values of sodium. This makes it difficult to reverse engineer just from the Nutrition Facts because it is difficult to know how to allocate the sodium to the different sources.  FYI, one teaspoon of salt contains about 2325 mg of sodium.

Peter

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #330 on: July 13, 2011, 12:26:11 PM »
Norma,

Sodium (Na) is a metallic element. Salt, or sodium chloride (NaCl), is a compound formed by an ionic bond of sodium (Na) and chlorine (Cl). Baking soda, or sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) is a sodium-containing compound and is somewhat salty and alkaline in taste but it is not a substitute for salt. When you see Nutrition Facts for a product like the GM Betty Crocker mixes that includes salt and baking soda in the ingredients list, the sodium listed in the Nutrition Facts is the combined values of sodium. This makes it difficult to reverse engineer just from the Nutrition Facts because it is difficult to know how to allocate the sodium to the different sources.  FYI, one teaspoon of salt contains about 2325 mg of sodium.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for explaining the differences in salt and baking soda.  I just never thought of the relationship before.  I knew I couldn’t ever replace salt with baking soda, because it does taste much different. 

I can understand when looking at the Nutrition Facts for something like the GM mixes, the salt and baking soda are combined values.  I also can understand it would be difficult to reverse engineer the combined values, in determining how to allocate the sodium to different sources.   I didn’t know before how much sodium is in 1 teaspoon of salt.

Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #331 on: August 09, 2011, 10:07:08 PM »
Another mystery pizza was made today at market.  This time I used all commercial products in Peter’s “goody bag” that I received for samples. I had wanted to try out the commercial products in the “goody bag”, since I have received all of them.  All the ingredients in the “goody bag” were dry.  I had mixed the “goody bag” last evening and incorporated it with the blueberry mix today at market.  I think the commercial products did make a difference in how the final pizza turned out.  The dessert blueberry pizza did turn out very well, and the crust was especially good.  My taste testers that tried the dessert blueberry pizza did like it very much. 

The pizza was dressed with orange marmalade, fresh strawberries and blueberries. 

Pictures below

Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #332 on: August 09, 2011, 10:09:26 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #333 on: August 09, 2011, 10:11:11 PM »
Another "Sukie" pizza.  ;D 

Also some fresh heirloom tomatoes Steve gave me today.

Norma


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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #334 on: August 09, 2011, 10:13:24 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #335 on: August 09, 2011, 10:14:52 PM »
end of pictures

Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #336 on: August 11, 2011, 10:47:47 AM »
Norma,
 I can't believe we forgot the pigs!!!! :-D

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #337 on: August 11, 2011, 01:03:14 PM »
Norma,
 I can't believe we forgot the pigs!!!! :-D

Steve,

The reason we probably forgot “Sukie” or her offspring, was because you and Randy were being so bad (you both kept talking about the fake blueberries in the dough falling out, when I went to open the dough).  At least that is what I will blame in on.  :-D I had remembered when I uploaded the pictures, that we forgot “Sukie”, but didn’t think about it at market. Poor “Sukie” was still in the drawer, I guess wondering why we didn’t take her out for the special occasion.   :( At least my great-granddaughter and her dad did enjoy a slice of the “Sukie” pizza.  I did take the one slice home and reheated it last evening.  This is a picture of the slice reheated.  It was really good reheated in the microwave.  I know most pizzas aren’t good heated that way, but this one sure was.  Did you give your wife a slice to taste?

Norma
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 09:33:13 AM by norma427 »

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #338 on: August 15, 2011, 07:04:08 PM »
I am going to give another stab at the same dough formulation, I had used at Reply 303  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13686.msg143187.html#msg143187 
 but I did change the percentages of flours I used in the formula. I also used all dry ingredients in the pizza crust mix, so I can just mix it with water tomorrow.  This formula has 2 kinds of main flours, dextrose, whole egg powder, dried shortening powder, soy flour, dry sweet buttermilk, IDY, Clabber Girl baking powder, and salt. Should be an interesting experiment, since so many ingredients are in the formula.  I am not sure how long to let it ferment after mixing.

Picture of mix before it was shaken, and picture of all dry ingredients, after the container was shaken to blend.

Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #339 on: August 17, 2011, 12:02:15 PM »
This post is just to report on how the “monster dough” Sukie pizza turned out yesterday.  All the dry ingredients added to the mix, in combination with the water, did seem to turn out better than my last attempt, but I do think more attempts might be needed in terms of more water added to the dough and maybe also changing or tweaking the flour ratios. 

I basically just added 6.83 oz. of water to the “monster mix Sukie” and mixed with a rubber spatula.  I let the dough sit a little to hydrate the flour more, and did hand knead after about 15 minutes.  The dough then still looked too dry so I added a total of 7.3 oz. of water. Not that much more water, but that is exactly how much water I added to the dry mix. The water used was hot.  The dough was then sticky, so I gave it a few stretch and folds.  The dough seemed fine, and I let it sit and rest another ½ hr.  The dough then looked normal, so I did ball and oiled the dough.  Altogether, the dough rested or fermented for 2 hrs., before the pie was made.  In hindsight, I think I should have added more water.  I don’t know if all the dry ingredients added make the dough drier after a while or not, but does seem that way to me.

A new friend that Steve and I are helping to learn to make pizza and stretch dough gave me the lovely peppers yesterday, so I thought I would add them to the “Sukie” pizza  pictures, because they are special too!

Pictures of the process and how the “Sukie Pizza” turned out.  “Sukie” and her relatives were happy to come out of the drawer yesterday to see their pizza.  :-D

Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #340 on: August 17, 2011, 12:06:23 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #341 on: August 17, 2011, 12:08:39 PM »
Norma


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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #342 on: August 17, 2011, 12:10:18 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #343 on: August 17, 2011, 12:11:34 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #344 on: October 14, 2011, 08:08:03 PM »
I decided since I had so many samples of dry ingredients, I would try a clone MM’s pizza with them.  This time I tried another kind of sugar in the formula.  The dry mix was mixed this morning.  I mixed the dry mix with water, this evening, then let it sit for 15 minutes.  I then balled the dough and left it sit for 20 more minutes.  The dough and dough ball rose quickly.  The dough ball was very easy to open.  There even were fermentation bubbles on the skin.  The MM’s dry-mix clone was dressed with Les’s tomato sauce, part-skim mozzarella, baked pepperoni, and red and yellow tomatoes from my garden.  The pizza took 4 ½ minutes to bake in my home oven on the pizza stone at a little over 500 degrees F.  The rim was then brushed with butter and garlic powder mixed, then Red Cow Parmesan was sprinkled on the rim. There was a nice rise in the rim and the crumb was moist.  There was more sweetness in this crust than my other attempts, but I didn’t think the sweetness was too much.  I think, but don’t know, that I made another Sukie pizza.  My daughter and I thought the MM’s dry-mix clone pizza was delicious.   ;D

Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #345 on: October 14, 2011, 08:09:22 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #346 on: October 14, 2011, 08:11:16 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #347 on: October 14, 2011, 08:15:27 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #348 on: October 14, 2011, 08:28:32 PM »
Norma,

That was an interesting experiment. Can you tell us what size pizza and thickness factor you used? And how would you say that your "emergency" MM clone dough and pizza compared with the other MM clone pizzas you made, in terms of color, taste, flavor, texture, etc.? By any chance, did you have to tweak the hydration to create the same dough "feel" as your earlier MM clones?

Do you plan to try another emergency MM clone pizza at market to see how it performs using your deck oven?

Peter

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #349 on: October 14, 2011, 08:55:00 PM »
Norma,

That was an interesting experiment. Can you tell us what size pizza and thickness factor you used? And how would you say that your "emergency" MM clone dough and pizza compared with the other MM clone pizzas you made, in terms of color, taste, flavor, texture, etc.? By any chance, did you have to tweak the hydration to create the same dough "feel" as your earlier MM clones?

Do you plan to try another emergency MM clone pizza at market to see how it performs using your deck oven?

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for saying the MM’s clone attempt with all dry ingredients was interesting.  I didn’t use any TF, but used a Total Weight for the whole formula of 183.67 grams.  I just stretched the dough until I thought I had it stretched enough.  The color of this attempt was lighter in the rim as you can see.  The taste of the crust  and flavor of the crust was great in my daughters and my opinion.  I liked this attempt better than my other MM’s clone attempts, but then I never really tasted a real MM’s pizza, so I don’t even know if I am close to how their pizzas taste.  I used 73 grams of water in the formula because of all the dry ingredients.  That was a 73% hydration.  I do plan on another dry-mix test at market, hopefully this coming week.  I plan to use the same formula, with all dry ingredients.  I would have never thought an emergency dry-mix crust could taste so good.

Norma


 

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