Author Topic: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday  (Read 54318 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2011, 05:37:10 PM »
I would be curious to hear if you had to pick one of the pizza mixes from your above list, which one you would pick, to make the best pizza, by just looking at the ingredients.

Norma,

Here is another pizza crust mix that I missed:

Eagle Mills
Enriched Bleached Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folate), Sugar, Canola or Soybean Oil, Salt, Mono-Diglycerides, Isolated Soy Protein, Whey. Yeast Packet Ingredient: Active Dried Yeast.

I actually thought about the question you raised as I was composing my last reply. I would say that it would be a toss-up between the Betty Crocker mix and the Chef Boyardee mix. I like the fact that the Betty Crocker mix has items like egg, nonfat milk and soy flour, all of which are nutritional items even though they are used in only small quantities. The negative for the Betty Crocker mix for me is the high placement of dextrose in the list of ingredients. Whether that would show up as excessive sweetness on my palate is something I would have to test by trying out the mix. The Chef Boyardee mix moves the dextrose farther down the list and salt is at the bottom of the list. Whether the latter results in a bland tasting crust is something that would have to be tested through eating. Some of the pizza mixes come in kits with sauce and cheese, so one has to take into account the amounts of salt, sugar/corn syrup, etc., that those parts of the pizza contain. I have set forth below the sauce and cheese combinations I found. Please try not to salivate over them. As between the two sauce/cheese combinations, I would pick the Appian Way combo. It is a cleaner combination in my opinion.

Chef Boyardee
Pizza Sauce: Tomato Puree (Water, Tomato Paste), Water, High Fructose Corn Syrup, Contains Less than 2% of: Soybean Oil, Salt, Modified Corn Starch, Spice, Medium Chain Triglycerides, Xanthan Gum, Flavorings, Partially Hydrogenated Cottonseed and Soybean Oils, and Enzyme Modified Butterfat and Oil. Grated Cheese: a Blend of Cheeses (Parmesan and Romano Made From Cow's Milk [Pasteurized Part-Skim Milk, Cultures, Salt, Enzymes]), Powdered Cellulose Added to Prevent Caking, Potassium Sorbate Added as a Preservative.

Appian Way
Pizza Sauce: Water, Tomato Paste, Modified Food Starch, Contains 2% Or Less Of Sugar, Salt, Cottonseed Oil, Spices, Romano Cheese (Pasteurized Part Skim Milk Cheese Culture, Salt, Enzymes, Calcium Chloride), Beet Powder, Citric Acid, Paprika, Olive Oil, Garlic Powder.

Peter


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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2011, 06:26:47 PM »
Peter,

Thanks for the pizza crust you missed.  I never saw that one before at the supermarket, but maybe I wasnít looking.

Maybe one of these days I will have to try out the Chef Boyardee mix to see how it compares with the Betty Crocker mix I tried.  I didnít notice any sweetness in the Betty Crocker mix crust, but since our palates are different, you might be able to taste some sweetness, if you decided to try the Betty Crocker mix out. 

Donít worry about me salivating over the sauce and cheese combination you found.  It isnít going to happen.  :-D   I like good tomato products or either a sauce like Lesís.  I never tried any of the pizza mixes with the kits of sauce and cheese, but do find them interesting.

Norma

Offline fazzari

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2011, 07:48:31 PM »
You know, I just thought of an interesting tidbit (at least I think it is!!).  When I attended Tom Lehmann's Pizza dough class years ago, he was telling us a story about how he got into trouble by deconstructing pizza doughs and then reconstructing them and giving out information.  Anyway, the interesting story to me was the one about Papa Murphys.  He deconstructed the dough and found it had baking soda/baking powder in addition to yeast, and he theorized the reason for adding this is to make the dough full proof in case an idiot customer forgets his pizza is sitting in a hot trunk for example.  So even though the yeast might be killed, you have the baking powder baking soda as backup to make the dough rise.  The unintended consequence is that these ingredients have a taste unlike normal dough.  So Norma, I'm wondering in your case if you got any yeast action at all, or was the rise from the baking soda/powder??

John

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2011, 08:23:36 PM »
John,

You raise an interesting point. Many take-and-bake places use a product like WRISE from the Wright Group. That product is described in the document at http://www.thewrightgroup.net/images/stories/pdf/wrise/wrise_101595.pdf. As can be seen in that document, WRISE is made up of sodium aluminum phosphate (SALP) and baking soda. It is fat encapsulated (a non-trans palm lipid) and kicks in only during baking. That way, if the consumer abuses the pizza by not preparing it as instructed, the WRISE product comes to the rescue. You will note that all but one of the pizza crust mixes described earlier contain sodium aluminum phosphate and baking soda. The difference is that that combination is not fat encapsulated, most likely because it is a dry mix that doesn't come to life until hot water is added. It is possible that the yeast is added for flavor (maybe to help masquerade the baking soda flavor) as much as for fermentation purposes. If there is enough yeast and hot water is used, it is possible to get some fermentation going in less than 15 minutes. But, without the sodium aluminum phosphate and baking soda, you would need a lot more yeast. I recall making doughs super fast, within about 15 minutes, using only yeast, and it took two packets of yeast to do it. I'm inclined to agree with you that most of the rise in the dough may be because of the sodium aluminum phosphate and the baking soda.

Peter

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2011, 10:15:57 PM »
I'd have to vote for the Jiffy.  After all, it's the only one with lard.  Gotta taste the best >:D

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2011, 10:19:31 PM »
John,

I find it interesting that you did take classes with Tom Lehmann, and he. like Peter likes to deconstruct doughs and reconstruct them again.  :-D

I, like Peter really donít know if the yeast could have been activated in such a short time with out the baking soda.  I did do some experiments with baking soda only in combination with vinegar in an Ultra-thin crust with Peterís advise.  I posted in Reply 4 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11427.msg104307.html#msg104307 that baking soda in combination with an acidic agent can almost canceled the baking soda taste and does produce CO2 which might which might have been responsible for the rise in the crust of such a short mix and ferment time. That was a total different experiment than this, but I learned how baking soda and vinegar did work well together.

Since Sodium Aluminum Phosphate is listed before baking soda in the ingredients I could also see how that might help with some oven spring in the Betty Crocker mix.
http://dwb.unl.edu/Teacher/NSF/C12/C12Links/www.cosmocel.com.mx/english/c-leave.htm
Since Sodium Aluminum Phosphate is supposed to act quickly in the oven.  It is also supposed to enhance baking reaction with the Sodium Bicarbonate present in the baking powder formulation. I think baking soda is just sodium bicarbonate without cream of tartar, but I could be wrong.

I find it interesting in pizza mixes how each ingredient works with each other.

Anyone can correct me if any of this information is wrong.  I just try to learn.

Norma
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 10:26:13 PM by norma427 »

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2011, 10:24:37 PM »
I'd have to vote for the Jiffy.  After all, it's the only one with lard.  Gotta taste the best >:D

Paul,

Good to hear you vote for Jiffy.  :)  Did you ever try a Jiffy pizza mix?  Stayed tuned, I am trying Manteca (lard) in a Lehmann dough for next week, in my other thread.  Who knows what will happen with that.  Weíll all see if the lard makes a difference in the taste of the Lehmann dough.  >:D

Norma

Offline fazzari

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2011, 10:35:19 PM »
Peter
Thanks a million...I forgot all about Wrise, and looking back in my notes, Tom recommended it highly.
John

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2011, 10:39:21 PM »
Peter,

Thanks for posting that link about the cold rise test you did.The Pie you made came out looking fantastic.

I thought about buying a pizza kit or two and throwing the stuff into the the bread mixer and see what it can do with it,then cold rise overnight.Just for fun.Never know when something might amaze us or not!
 :)
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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2011, 12:15:55 AM »
mmmaluminummmnn   Ronzo pointed out a while back how detectable this ingredient is in baked goods didn't he?  It tasted like biscuits right?  -marc

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2011, 05:22:38 PM »
mmmaluminummmnn   Ronzo pointed out a while back how detectable this ingredient is in baked goods didn't he?  It tasted like biscuits right?  -marc

Marc,

Were you directing the question to me about if the pizza crust tasted like biscuits?

Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2011, 05:33:20 PM »
I used my NSF update international thermometer today to take the temperature of hot water put into the same Ĺ cup measuring cup I had used Tuesday, for the Betty Crocker pizza mix.  The temperature of the water right after it was put into the stainless steel measuring cup was 132.4 degrees F.  About a minute later it was 128.7 degrees F.  Another two minutes later it was 123.1 degrees F.  If I remember correctly we used the water right away.  Today at market the ambinet room temperature at my stand was 68 degrees F and I even measured the stainless steel measuring cup with my IR gun to make sure that was the temperature of the measuring cup.  Tuesday the ambient room temperatures were about 82 degrees F.  I can see the temperature of the hot water could fall fairly fast after the test I did today.  I can now see the temperature of the water at market isnít high enough to kill the yeast.

Norma

Offline Botch

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2011, 10:35:55 PM »
Several folks on this forum have purchased Bosch mixers and ingredients from www.foryourkitchen.com, which is based here in Ogden.  I attended their "Pizza" class a few months ago, and he mixed up a batch of pizza dough at the beginning of the class, immediately rolled out a couple skins, docked and dressed them, and threw them into the oven.
He didn't proof the yeast at all (IDY), but
He didn't let the dough rise either, at all!   :o
At first, I got pretty interested as suddenly it looked like I could make pizza any night of the week, without any time expenditure.
But, the crust didn't taste very good at all; more like flour.  I can dig out the recipe if anyone's interested, but it isn't very good.  Sounds like the pre-packaged mixes in this thread are better.  
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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2011, 10:42:08 PM »
Botch,

I'd be interested in seeing the recipe.

Peter

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2011, 10:53:10 PM »
Botch,

I also would be interested in seeing the recipe.  :) The crust on the pizza I made from the Betty Crocker mix was okay and didnít taste like flour, but it didnít taste like a crust that was homemade and the dough had fermented for a few days.

Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2011, 12:34:51 AM »
norma, you've inspired me to a similar idea i've been kicking around.  will post shortly with results  :chef:
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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2011, 08:01:04 AM »
norma, you've inspired me to a similar idea i've been kicking around.  will post shortly with results  :chef:

c0mpl3x,

I like to see and read about any different kinds of tests or experiments with pizza.  Will be watching for what you try and your results.

Norma


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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2011, 09:01:24 AM »
c0mpl3x,

I like to see and read about any different kinds of tests or experiments with pizza.  Will be watching for what you try and your results.

Norma

lol, i forgot that the 'toast' function of my toaster oven is 'constant on' and i burned it.  oops.    but here's the recipe

120g bisquick
5g oil
3g yeast
1g salt (already salt and baking soda present)
4g sugar
60g water

mixed it up let it sit 30mins made a pan pizza in toaster oven pan. looked great until i gave it the toaster 'broil' to brown the top and forgot about it.
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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2011, 09:46:05 AM »
lol, i forgot that the 'toast' function of my toaster oven is 'constant on' and i burned it.  oops.    but here's the recipe

120g bisquick
5g oil
3g yeast
1g salt (already salt and baking soda present)
4g sugar
60g water

mixed it up let it sit 30mins made a pan pizza in toaster oven pan. looked great until i gave it the toaster 'broil' to brown the top and forgot about it.


c0mpl3x,

You idea and experiment for a fast pizza using Bisquick sounds really good. Lol, you forgot about the toast on your toaster oven being constantly on.  I could see that your method and experiment might work.  Do you plan on doing the experiment again?  There are many recipes for using Bisquick on the web for pizza dough.  These are just a few of the recipes.  I never tried any of these, but they look like they are quick.

http://www.cooks.com/rec/view/0,194,143176-237206,00.html

http://www.cooks.com/rec/view/0,1941,146160-251201,00.html

http://www.food.com/recipe/astonishingly-easy-yeasty-bisquick-pizza-dough-222066

There are also recipes from Betty Crocker like:

http://www.bettycrocker.com/recipes/bisquick-pizza/df578e3c-9ca3-438b-8780-06f6ea9434c2

Thanks for sharing your results.

Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2011, 11:50:46 PM »
i think i might omit the oil period, from what i could feel from the very dark brown broiler 'oops' crust, it's as soft or softer than store bread.   probably too soft for a non-pan pizza (ie: NY/neo), but as a sicilian or on it's own as a bread.  the initial handling of the dough was just way too non-gluten, i could do 100 stretch and folds and i don't see a surface tension to it.  i did about 20, and i could barely notice a difference.  i will be trying it again, one with CY and the other with IDY.
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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #45 on: May 01, 2011, 09:02:51 AM »
i think i might omit the oil period, from what i could feel from the very dark brown broiler 'oops' crust, it's as soft or softer than store bread.   probably too soft for a non-pan pizza (ie: NY/neo), but as a sicilian or on it's own as a bread.  the initial handling of the dough was just way too non-gluten, i could do 100 stretch and folds and i don't see a surface tension to it.  i did about 20, and i could barely notice a difference.  i will be trying it again, one with CY and the other with IDY.

c0mpl3x,

I donít have a Bisquick box at home right now, but I do use Bisquick occasionally to make pancakes and shortcake for strawberries. I have used Bisquick in the past to make biscuits. I donít know what kind of flour is added to the mix, but I think there is some kind of fat already in the mix.  I also think there is some kind of milk product in the mix, but I am not sure.  Either the kind of flour, fat, or if there is a milk product in the Bisquick could make your dough softer.  At least that is what I am thinking, but donít know. 

You posted that the Bisquick mix didnít form gluten, and the dough was way too soft, even if you did stretch and folds.  I donít know if you could also try another flour in combination with your Bisquick or not to make the gluten form better.

I look forward to your results if you use CY and IDY in your pizza mix.   :)

Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2011, 11:20:57 AM »
c0mpl3x and Norma,

To see the ingredients for all of the Betty Crocker Bisquick mixes, go to http://www.generalmills.com/Home/Brands/Baking_Products/Gold_Medal/Brand%20Product%20List%20Page.aspx, click on the Bisquick link under Brands, and then click on the Nutrition Facts button to get to the particular version of the product desired, such as the Bisquick Original. Since the Bisquick mix is used mostly for biscuits, pancakes and waffles and the like, I would guess that they are using cake flour (bromated, without malting). Being low in protein and gluten formation, I would imagine that it would be hard to develop whatever small amount of gluten the flour can form. Adding a higher protein flour to the Bisquick mix as Norma mentioned should help convert the Bisquick mix to a pizza crust mix. Note, also, our old friends baking soda and sodium aluminum phosphate, which are used in all of the pizza crust mixes shown in Reply 23 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13686.msg137206.html#msg137206.

Also, check out the Bisquick Complete Buttermilk Biscuits mix. It has egg, a milk product (buttermilk) and soy flour, much like the Betty Crocker pizza crust mix that Norma used for her mystery pizza:

Betty Crocker
Ingredients: Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley, Niacin, Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Partially Hydrogenated Soybean and/or Cottonseed Oil, Dextrose, Dried Yeast, Salt, Sodium Aluminum Phosphate, Baking Soda, Egg, Nonfat Milk, Soy Flour, Freshness Preserved by BHA


Take the Bisquick Complete Buttermilk Biscuits mix, add a stronger (malted) flour to it, along with some yeast, and maybe you have a cheaper version of the Betty Crocker pizza crust mix. Then, just add water.

Peter

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2011, 12:52:30 PM »
c0mpl3x and Norma,

To see the ingredients for all of the Betty Crocker Bisquick mixes, go to http://www.generalmills.com/Home/Brands/Baking_Products/Gold_Medal/Brand%20Product%20List%20Page.aspx, click on the Bisquick link under Brands, and then click on the Nutrition Facts button to get to the particular version of the product desired, such as the Bisquick Original. Since the Bisquick mix is used mostly for biscuits, pancakes and waffles and the like, I would guess that they are using cake flour (bromated, without malting). Being low in protein and gluten formation, I would imagine that it would be hard to develop whatever small amount of gluten the flour can form. Adding a higher protein flour to the Bisquick mix as Norma mentioned should help convert the Bisquick mix to a pizza crust mix. Note, also, our old friends baking soda and sodium aluminum phosphate, which are used in all of the pizza crust mixes shown in Reply 23 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13686.msg137206.html#msg137206.

Also, check out the Bisquick Complete Buttermilk Biscuits mix. It has egg, a milk product (buttermilk) and soy flour, much like the Betty Crocker pizza crust mix that Norma used for her mystery pizza:

Betty Crocker
Ingredients: Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley, Niacin, Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Partially Hydrogenated Soybean and/or Cottonseed Oil, Dextrose, Dried Yeast, Salt, Sodium Aluminum Phosphate, Baking Soda, Egg, Nonfat Milk, Soy Flour, Freshness Preserved by BHA


Take the Bisquick Complete Buttermilk Biscuits mix, add a stronger (malted) flour to it, along with some yeast, and maybe you have a cheaper version of the Betty Crocker pizza crust mix. Then, just add water.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for finding all the information out about the Original Bisquick and the Buttemilk Bisquick Biscuit Mix. I had tried to find that information, but couldnít. I wonder how a buttermilk Bisquick biscuit, cheese-garlic biscuit mix, three cheese biscuit mix, or even a gluten-free mix would taste for a pizza.  I have to go to the supermarket later today and might look to see if they carry any of those mixes. 

I also see our old friends ( baking soda and sodium aluminum phosphate) are still there waiting for us.  ;D

Norma

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2011, 12:55:41 PM »
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2106.0.html :D

Trinity,

I, like Peter did at Reply 73 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2106.msg67808.html#msg67808 would like nominate you to the Chef Boyardee Hall of Fame!  :chef: :chef: :chef:

Did you make five total pizzas with the mix or mixes or more?  :o

It was very interesting to see all the way you use the Chef Boyardee products to create pizza in differnent ways.  You are very creative and your pizzas did look great!  :)

Norma