Author Topic: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday  (Read 48839 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« on: April 27, 2011, 09:08:18 AM »

This was a pizza dough Steve and I mixed at market yesterday in a few minutes.  We made the pizza about 10 minutes after we mixed the dough.  I did some stretch and folds and Steve also did some stretch and folds, because the dough was sticky. No extra bench flour was needed to be used, other than he normal amount that is used to open a dough ball.  The dough ball wasnít oiled or floured at all.  This was a 12" pizza.  Steve opened the dough ball. 

Does anyone care to guess anything about this pizza?  This pizza didnít have a lot of oven spring even with the stretch and folds.  The dough was sticky before the stretch and folds.

If anyone is interested in guessing what the ingredients were in the dough of this pizza or anything about this pizza, I will give more clues if anyone canít figure out the ingredients or what kind of pizza this was.  If no one is interested, I still will post how this pizza was made in a few days. 

Pictures below

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2011, 09:11:08 AM »
more pictures

Norma
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 09:14:19 AM by norma427 »
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2011, 09:12:57 AM »
end of pictures

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline dellavecchia

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2631
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2011, 09:19:26 AM »
Norma - I don't have the skills to guess what the ingredients are, but the crumb is unbelievable considering just ten minutes of rise!

John

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2011, 10:27:22 AM »
Norma - I don't have the skills to guess what the ingredients are, but the crumb is unbelievable considering just ten minutes of rise!

John

John,

The crumb was okay I think because all of the water used and also the stretch and folds. I am not saying this crust was the best, but I found it interesting that a dough and pizza could be made this fast.  This is another clue to this dough and final pizza.  The total weight of the ingredients used were 184 grams without the water.  The water used was Ĺ cup of very hot water. 

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

parallei

  • Guest
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2011, 04:26:00 PM »
Wild guess.....self-rising flour or baking soda/powder.  Looks good whatever it was.  10 min huh?

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2011, 04:52:17 PM »
Wild guess.....self-rising flour or baking soda/powder.  Looks good whatever it was.  10 min huh?

Paul,

Good guess!  :) The mix did have baking soda as one of the ingredients, but there was more yeast than baking soda.  The flour wasnít self-rising flour.  This was a very fast dough and I was surprised how fast Steve and I could use the dough.  The ingredients and very hot water were beaten with a metal spoon 20 times.  The dough was only left to then sit for 10 minutes covered.

A couple of more clues if anyone is interested: An egg product and nonfat milk were also some of the ingreidents in this dough. To be truthful, this was a way to easy dough.   

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline chickenparm

  • In Memoriam
  • Posts: 1786
  • Location: Back in Indy...Making New York Style Pies
  • Oh No,Not Pizza Again!!!
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2011, 08:30:50 PM »
Paul,

Good guess!  :) The mix did have baking soda as one of the ingredients, but there was more yeast than baking soda.  The flour wasnít self-rising flour.  This was a very fast dough and I was surprised how fast Steve and I could use the dough.  The ingredients and very hot water were beaten with a metal spoon 20 times.  The dough was only left to then sit for 10 minutes covered.

A couple of more clues if anyone is interested: An egg product and nonfat milk were also some of the ingreidents in this dough. To be truthful, this was a way to easy dough.   

Norma

It kinda looks like a chef boyardee kit or a martha white pizza dough mix made with your skills.
 :D
-Bill

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23197
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2011, 08:43:43 PM »
Bill,

You are close. It is a Jiffy pizza crust mix that was used to make the pizza. Right, Norma?

Peter


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2011, 11:14:19 PM »
It kinda looks like a chef boyardee kit or a martha white pizza dough mix made with your skills.
 :D

Bill,

Great guesses, but neither the Chef Boyardee or the Martha white pizza dough mix aren't right.  I will give another clue.  It was a mix I bought at the supermarket, just to see how it would turn out.

Thanks for playing along in guessing what was used to make this pizza.  :)

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2011, 11:30:15 PM »
Bill,

You are close. It is a Jiffy pizza crust mix that was used to make the pizza. Right, Norma?

Peter

Peter,

Nope, the Jiffy Pizza crust mix isnít right either.  I will give another clue.  The person behind this brand of mix Steve and I used is a brand name and trademark of an American Fortune 500 corporation.

Thank for playing along in this guessing game too!  Steve and I were fooled how this pizza turned out.  It turned out better than we thought it would.  

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23197
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2011, 11:35:57 PM »
Norma,

Betty Crocker.

Peter

Offline chickenparm

  • In Memoriam
  • Posts: 1786
  • Location: Back in Indy...Making New York Style Pies
  • Oh No,Not Pizza Again!!!
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2011, 11:48:32 PM »
Amway Pizza Dough mix.
  :-D
-Bill

Offline Jet_deck

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3045
  • Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2011, 11:53:47 PM »
Bisquick?  With some dough conditioner?  More hints are kneaded  :-D
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2011, 12:03:38 AM »
Norma,

Betty Crocker.

Peter

Peter,

You are right!  What kind of prize do you want?  Is this good enough? :pizza: :pizza: Do you think this looked like a Betty Crocker pizza?  Steve and I used really hot water right out of the spigot.  I would have thought that would have killed the yeast, but it didn't.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Crocker

and

http://www.livestrong.com/thedailyplate/nutrition-calories/food/betty-crocker/pizza-crust-mix-6.5-oz/

Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2011, 12:05:38 AM »
Amway Pizza Dough mix.
  :-D

Bill,

Thanks for playing along with this guessing game!  ;D  I just thought is was interesting that a cheap pizza mix turned out so good.  The crust didn't taste like crusts I usually make, but it was okay.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2011, 12:08:02 AM »
Bisquick?  With some dough conditioner?  More hints are kneaded  :-D

Jet_deck,

Thank you for playing around in this guessing game too!   ;D  I would have given more hints as kneaded, but Peter already guessed right.  I really like your post about more hints are kneaded.   :-D  That gave me a good chuckle!

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline chickenparm

  • In Memoriam
  • Posts: 1786
  • Location: Back in Indy...Making New York Style Pies
  • Oh No,Not Pizza Again!!!
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2011, 12:13:59 AM »
Norma,
Supposed you let it cold rise for 2 days?
 :)
-Bill

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2011, 12:22:44 AM »
Norma,
Supposed you let it cold rise for 2 days?
 :)

Bill,

I don't know what would happen with a cold rise for 2 days, but think a addition of some oil would make the finished crust taste better.  I would think that this dough would get out of control with a longer ferment, but maybe it might not, if really cold water was used.  This dough was really sticky to begin with and Steve and I thought about how doing stretch and folds would help this dough.  It did work.  The directions on the package say to press the dough in a pan, but we wanted to see if we could make a dough ball and make the pizza normally.  It did work.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23197
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2011, 09:33:49 AM »
Norma,

If you look at the various commercial "instant" pizza dough mixes on the market, you will see that they are all pretty much alike, even down to the net weight (184 grams) of the pizza mix. Even the instructions are quite similar (including using 1/2 cup of hot water).

It wasn't until Bill (chickenparm) mentioned a prepared pizza mix that I got the Ding, ding, ding. Where I went wrong in guessing the Jiffy mix is that the Jiffy mix does not include any egg product.

With respect to the water temperature issue that you raised, I suspect that your water temperature was not high enough to kill the yeast. You would have to get to over 143 degrees F or so to do that. That is pretty hard to do when the yeast is buffered by all of the flour and other ingredients in the mix. You might also recall that yeast producers will often specify a water temperature of about 120-130 degrees F when the yeast (usually ADY) is added in advance to the flour and other dry ingredients. As a practical matter, and although I don't recommend it, I think you could get to around 135 degrees F without harming the yeast. I'd be curious to know what water temperature you actually used.

To Bill's point about using cold fermentation with a commercial instant dough mix, I tried that with the Jiffy pizza mix. You and Bill can read about my experiments along these lines at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4652.msg38349.html#msg38349.

Peter

Offline Tman1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 219
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2011, 11:40:48 AM »
My wife works in the test kitchens for Betty here in Minneapolis. I can tell you that you'd be amazed at how many times that was probably made. They start out by following the directions, then start playing with it to determine 'tolerance', then have people who've never seen the product before do it.. a sort of blind test.

Interesting to hear all that goes on in there (BK Kitchens). She loves the job!  I might have to have here bring home some from the company store and give it a go. It is nice that it's so quick for those real emergencies.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2011, 12:58:31 PM »
Norma,

If you look at the various commercial "instant" pizza dough mixes on the market, you will see that they are all pretty much alike, even down to the net weight (184 grams) of the pizza mix. Even the instructions are quite similar (including using 1/2 cup of hot water).

It wasn't until Bill (chickenparm) mentioned a prepared pizza mix that I got the Ding, ding, ding. Where I went wrong in guessing the Jiffy mix is that the Jiffy mix does not include any egg product.

With respect to the water temperature issue that you raised, I suspect that your water temperature was not high enough to kill the yeast. You would have to get to over 143 degrees F or so to do that. That is pretty hard to do when the yeast is buffered by all of the flour and other ingredients in the mix. You might also recall that yeast producers will often specify a water temperature of about 120-130 degrees F when the yeast (usually ADY) is added in advance to the flour and other dry ingredients. As a practical matter, and although I don't recommend it, I think you could get to around 135 degrees F without harming the yeast. I'd be curious to know what water temperature you actually used.

To Bill's point about using cold fermentation with a commercial instant dough mix, I tried that with the Jiffy pizza mix. You and Bill can read about my experiments along these lines at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4652.msg38349.html#msg38349.

Peter

Peter,

I never really looked at many ďinstantĒ pizza dough mixes before.  I just thought they wouldnít work well.  The next time I go to the supermarket, I will check on what kind are available in my area and look at the instructions and ingredients.  I had looked at the Pillsbury refrigerated containers of pizza dough and had thought about giving them a try.

I thought if I gave enough clues and you answered on this thread, you probably would have gotten the ding, ding, ding, sooner or later.  Of course all the other guesses were very interesting too.  

I really donít know what water temperature I used, but my water at market can get so hot that I am unable to let my hand under it.  I did run the hot water for a little.  If I think about it, when I am at market I will take the water temperature with my digital thermometer.  I even asked Steve if he thought the water we were using was too hot, but the directions just said not to use boiling water.
 
I did read about you using a cold ferment with the Jiffy pizza mix.  I might try doing a cold ferment at some point in time with the Betty Crocker pizza mix like I purchased.  It was cheap enough and quick enough to do another experiment with.  

I had one regular customer taste a slice of the pizza made with the Betty Crocker pizza mix, and he said just while eating the pizza with the sauce and cheese, it almost couldnít be told what kind of dough was used, but when he tasted the crust, he said my crust was much better.  It is interesting how much a sauce and cheese can make a pizza taste, even if the crust isnít the greatest.  

Steve and I also had two women that work at Chi Chiís stop at my stand on Tuesday and they were telling us how they made the dough, brownies and breadsticks.  That also was an interesting discussion.  They both said they loved their jobs at Chi Chiís.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2011, 01:07:50 PM »
My wife works in the test kitchens for Betty here in Minneapolis. I can tell you that you'd be amazed at how many times that was probably made. They start out by following the directions, then start playing with it to determine 'tolerance', then have people who've never seen the product before do it.. a sort of blind test.

Interesting to hear all that goes on in there (BK Kitchens). She loves the job!  I might have to have here bring home some from the company store and give it a go. It is nice that it's so quick for those real emergencies.

Tman1,

It is interesting to hear your wife works at the test kitchens for Betty in Minneapolis.  :) I am sure other members and I would be amazed at what different people do to different mixes of Betty Crocker.

I can imagine what an interesting job that would be to work in a test kitchen, especially as big as Betty Crocker.  It would be interesting if you bought some of the Betty Crocker pizza mixes I used and tried them or modified the pizza mix and see what kind of results you would get.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23197
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2011, 01:41:36 PM »
Norma,

Compare these:

Betty Crocker
Ingredients: Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley, Niacin, Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Partially Hydrogenated Soybean and/or Cottonseed Oil, Dextrose, Dried Yeast, Salt, Sodium Aluminum Phosphate, Baking Soda, Egg, Nonfat Milk, Soy Flour, Freshness Preserved by BHA

Chef Boyardee
Crust Mix: Enriched Wheat Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Iron, Thiamine Mononitrate [Vitamin B1], Riboflavin [Vitamin B2] and Folic Acid), Partially Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil Shortening (Contains One or More of the Following: Soybean Oil, Cottonseed Oil), Yeast, Dextrose, Leavening (Sodium Aluminum Phosphate and Sodium Bicarbonate) and Salt.

Jiffy
INGREDIENTS: WHEAT FLOUR, ANIMAL SHORTENING (CONTAINS ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING: LARD, HYDROGENATED LARD, PARTIALLY HYDROGENATED LARD), YEAST, contains less than 2% of each of the following: WHEY, SALT, DEXTROSE, LEAVENING (SODIUM ALUMINUM PHOSPHATE, BAKING SODA), SORBITAN MONOSTEARATE, NIACIN, REDUCED IRON, THIAMINE MONONITRATE, RIBOFLAVIN, FOLIC ACID

Appian Way
Pizza Crust: Enriched Bleached Flour (Bleached Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Iron, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Dextrose, Leavening (Baking Soda, Sodium Aluminum Phosphate), Partially Hydrogenated Vegetable Shortening (Contains Soybean Oil), Active Dry Yeast With Sorbitan Monostearate, Emulsifier (Soy Lecithin), Salt, Nonfat Milk, Maltodextrin

Martha White
ENRICHED FLOUR (WHEAT FLOUR, MALTED BARLEY FLOUR, NIACIN, IRON, THIAMIN MONONITRATE, RIBOFLAVIN, FOLIC ACID), CONTAINS 2% OR LESS OF: DEXTROSE, BAKING POWDER (BAKING SODA, SODIUM ALUMINUM PHOSPHATE), DRY YEAST, SALT, PARTIALLY HYDROGENATED SOYBEAN OIL, SODIUM STEAROYL LACTYLATE, CALCIUM SULFATE, PROPYLENE GLYCOL MONOESTERS, MONO AND DIGLYCERIDES, POLYSORBATE 60, L-CYSTEINE HYDROCHLORIDE, TBHQ AND CITRIC ACID (ANTIOXIDANTS).

Kroger
Ingredients: Enriched Bleached Wheat Flour (Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Dextrose, Leavening (Baking Soda, Sodium Aluminum Phosphate), Whey, Soybean Oil, Salt, Active Dry Yeast with Sorbitan Monostearate, L-Cysteine Monohydrochloride

Walmart Great Value
Enriched Bleached Flour (Bleached Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Iron, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Soybean Oil, Dextrose, Leavening (Sodium Almuminum Phosphate, Baking Soda), Active Dry Yeast With Sorbitan Monostearate, Salt, Calcium Carbonate

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2011, 04:39:56 PM »
Peter,

Thanks for posting all the different ingredients for the kinds of pizza mixes you found.  I see most of them have about the same ingredients.  I see the Jiffy pizza mix has lard (or different types of lard) as one of the ingredients.  I would be curious to hear if you had to pick one of the pizza mixes from your above list, which one you would pick, to make the best pizza, by just looking at the ingredients.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


 

pizzapan