Author Topic: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday  (Read 37481 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #160 on: May 14, 2011, 10:18:52 PM »
Norma,

Thank you for posting your latest results. From your description, clearly what you got was not the Sukie pizza that you hoped it would be. It is hard to explain why that was the case. Perhaps the jump from the Bisquick Original Pancake and Baking Mix to the Bisquick Buttermilk biscuit mix and finally to the Sukie dough via the "goody bag" was too much. Or my attempts at reverse engineering the two mixes did not succeed, or sufficiently so, even though all the numbers seemed to add up. Or maybe there are some ingredient issues with the "goody bag", although I would rank that possibility below the others at this point since it is hard to imagine that using the Imperial margarine and fresh egg in lieu of their commercial counterparts in the Bisquick Original mix would have had a major effect on the outcome. We would have to use the same or very similar ingredients that are used in the Bisquick Original mix to know for sure, which may not be a viable option at this point.

I suppose that in due course you might try making a Sukie pizza again using the Bisquick buttermilk biscuit mix and the "goody bag" for that application. If you can get similar results as you got the last time, that would be reassuring since you would know that using that combination is a viable approach.

Peter


Peter,

I also was stumped why this recent pizza turned out like it did.  The dough felt about the same, fermented about the same and even smelled the same.  I wish I could have said it also baked the same.  I don’t know if it had anything to do with baking in my home oven or not, but don’t think it would make that big of a difference.  There was no Bisquick taste in the taste of the crust and I have no idea why the crust was soft, when it should have baked better. The pizza was good, but not as good as the “goody bag” with the other two biscuit mixes I tried.  I wonder if I should just try the “goody bag” you had set-forth before with the Bisquick Pancake and Baking mix.  It would be interesting to see how that would turn out.  I know the ingredients aren’t the same, but it makes me wonder what would happen.  I know you have worked very hard on this project and I appreciate you doing that. 

I did buy another bag of the Bisquick Buttermilk Biscuit mix and plan on trying that again at market Tuesday.  Even the other Bisquick cheese-garlic biscuit mix turned out well with the other “goody bag” you set-forth.   ;D

I even wonder if the new dough enhancer would work with the Bisquick Pancake and Baking mix.  I could just add about 4% to see what would happen.  I don’t care if I “wing it”.  I just like to see what happens in experiments.

BTW, I did use the extra dough that I had leftover from Reply 117 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13686.msg138168.html#msg138168 I had frozen that part of the dough and took it out of the freezer last evening (and put it into the refrigerator until after I baked the pizza).  I thought I would be baking a pizza today, so I thought I would try to make bread out of the rest of that dough.  Well the bread didn’t come out really airy, but it really turned into great bread.  I had a slice with butter and I really liked it.  I would have thought that the dough sitting in the refrigerator from last evening until later today, would have risen more, but it didn’t.  I also wonder why the extra piece of dough that I made into bread didn’t rise after being defrosted.

Pictures of bread

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #161 on: May 14, 2011, 10:59:16 PM »
I also was stumped why this recent pizza turned out like it did.  The dough felt about the same, fermented about the same and even smelled the same.  I wish I could have said it also baked the same.  I don’t know if it had anything to do with baking in my home oven or not, but don’t think it would make that big of a difference.

Norma,

I always look for the obvious first. Looking at the photos and your description of the crust characteristics, is it possible that the IDY was left out of the "goody bag"? When I went back and looked at the ingredients, they didn't look out of line so as to produce such a different dough performance. From your description, it
sounds like this dough performed differently than the last one with the much higher hydration.

Peter
« Last Edit: May 14, 2011, 11:00:47 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #162 on: May 14, 2011, 11:43:36 PM »
Norma,

I always look for the obvious first. Looking at the photos and your description of the crust characteristics, is it possible that the IDY was left out of the "goody bag"? When I went back and looked at the ingredients, they didn't look out of line so as to produce such a different dough performance. From your description, it
sounds like this dough performed differently than the last one with the much higher hydration.

Peter


Peter,

I am 99% positive, I put the IDY in the “goody bag”.  I went over all the ingredients 3 times, so I was sure I would get this right this time, after I had messed up with the Bisquick Pancake and Baking mix the last time. I had all the ingredients out before I even started the “goody bag” and put them away as I used each one.  If you want me to repeat this experiment at market, I would be happy to repeat it again.  It also has me stumped what happened.  How would the dough have risen so much two times if I had forgotten the IDY?  When I did the first experiment with the Bisquick Buttermilk biscuit mix at market where the dough came up to the top of the lid, I had used a smaller plastic container, in that experiment.  In the experiment with the cheese-garlic biscuit mix, I had used a larger plastic container, like I did today. I also used a larger plastic container for the experiment I did at home with my proposed added ingredients to your “goody bag”.

This dough today did preform much differently than with the higher hydration, but think that was because I didn’t weight out the Bisquick Pancake and Baking mix right.  Do you think any of this makes any sense?

Norma
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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #163 on: May 14, 2011, 11:55:07 PM »
Norma,

Thank you for confirming what you did. It was just that the last two sets of photos looked so different. Not knowing exactly how much baking powder is in the Bisquick Original Pancake and Baking Mix, I thought that there may have been enough after you added more to support a fair amount of fermentation.

I will leave it up to you if you'd care to give the dough another try, but at market this time.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #164 on: May 15, 2011, 12:16:53 AM »
Norma,

Thank you for confirming what you did. It was just that the last two sets of photos looked so different. Not knowing exactly how much baking powder is in the Bisquick Original Pancake and Baking Mix, I thought that there may have been enough after you added more to support a fair amount of fermentation.

I will leave it up to you if you'd care to give the dough another try, but at market this time.

Peter

Peter,

I know the set of photos from market, (with the wrong amount of Bisquick Pancake and Baking mix) and the photos from today, do look really different.  The taste of both of them were really different too!  I didn’t know that you thought maybe the baking powder was responsible for the fermentation.  Each of the times I did do these experiments, the doughs all rose in about the same manner and about in the same amount of time for the bulk rise and also after the dough ball was formed and oiled.  Today it was only a little bit longer than 4 hrs. from start to finish.  I tried to keep the time frame almost the same, but the room temperatures were different.

I am also curious about what happened.  I will repeat the same experiment I did today, at market Tuesday.  

Norma
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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #165 on: May 15, 2011, 10:10:50 AM »
Norma,

Thank you for giving this another try.

This morning, I tried to find the label information for the Imperial margarine in order to look at its ingredients again to see if I could find anything there that might have affected the last dough batch. I couldn't find the exact form of the Imperial package I saw in the supermarket recently, but I did find an interesting and useful website at http://www.labelwatch.com/prod_results.php?pid=361005 that provides the label information for a very large number of margarine products, far more than I have seen in the stores near me. Most of the margarine products in those stores tend to be the "healthy" variety, whereas what GM uses for its Bisquick Original Pancake and Baking Mix--partially hydrogenated soybean and/or cottonseed oil--is considered to be of the "unhealthy" variety, at least as current thinking goes on the subject.

Whoever thought that we would be researching pancake and waffle mixes, biscuit mixes, margarine products, shortening and lard and what goes into them? This is supposed to be a pizza site :-D.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #166 on: May 15, 2011, 11:11:00 AM »
Norma,

Thank you for giving this another try.

This morning, I tried to find the label information for the Imperial margarine in order to look at its ingredients again to see if I could find anything there that might have affected the last dough batch. I couldn't find the exact form of the Imperial package I saw in the supermarket recently, but I did find an interesting and useful website at http://www.labelwatch.com/prod_results.php?pid=361005 that provides the label information for a very large number of margarine products, far more than I have seen in the stores near me. Most of the margarine products in those stores tend to be the "healthy" variety, whereas what GM uses for its Bisquick Original Pancake and Baking Mix--partially hydrogenated soybean and/or cottonseed oil--is considered to be of the "unhealthy" variety, at least as current thinking goes on the subject.

Whoever thought that we would be researching pancake and waffle mixes, biscuit mixes, margarine products, shortening and lard and what goes into them? This is supposed to be a pizza site :-D.

Peter


Peter,

The website you found about margarine is interesting.  The Imperial margarine I have at market, and now, also here at home is the 53% vegetable oil spread in stick form.  Do you think this brand had anything to do with how the recent pizza turned out or do you think using fresh egg also did something?

I know I am not like you in being able to do the math and also reverse-engineering products.
I did email Edna this morning, after she sent me an email early this morning, saying she really wanted to know about any tests I did on the Stretch-Out product.  I did ask her the questions you wanted to know about.  I still wonder if using about 4% Stretch-Out would work with the Bisquick Pancake and Baking mix.

I also got another Biquick pouch of a different kind of product that I am going to try at market Tuesday with your other “goody bag” just to see what happens.

I never thought we would be researching all this stuff, either, but I remember the Ultra-Thin thread where there was a lot of research, and then the pizza curst didn’t even had any taste.  At least so far in this thread with your other “goody bag” and the Buttermilk and Cheese-Garlic biscuit mixes, those pizzas were very successful.  ;D

Norma
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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #167 on: May 15, 2011, 12:43:50 PM »
The Imperial margarine I have at market, and now, also here at home is the 53% vegetable oil spread in stick form.  Do you think this brand had anything to do with how the recent pizza turned out or do you think using fresh egg also did something?

Norma,

It is hard to say because there is not a lot of margarine (1/2 tablespoon) and not much egg (1/5th of a large egg, or 10 grams). But, as you know from experimenting with the dough enhancers, the amounts of some of the ingredients can be quite small on a percentage basis. I also estimate that there is about 3.4 grams of water in the margarine and about another 7.6 grams of water from the egg, or about 11 grams total. But if the water was the issue, then I think it should have manifested itself in the high hydration version of the formulation that you tried. I think that would also have been true for using margarine and fresh egg as substitutes for the comparable ingredients used in the Bisquick Original Pancake and Baking Mix.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #168 on: May 16, 2011, 07:02:24 AM »
The “goody bag” mix (with the Bisquick Pancake and Baking mix, combined with KABF, and the other ingredients, except the egg, Imperial, and water) is ready to go to market today. I have all the instructions ready to go to market, too.  Hopefully this time, this pizza will turn into a Sukie pizza. 

There are also two other “goody bags” ready for the Biquick Buttermilk Biscuit mix and also another Mystery Pizza.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #169 on: May 17, 2011, 09:50:33 PM »
Since this thread started out with a mystery pizza Steve and I made at market, I decided to try another Mystery Pizza today.  This mystery pizza with Peter’s first “goody bag” turned out great!  ;D I only had to add one other ingredient to this mystery dough to be able to make a pizza and it wasn’t water.  Steve and I added 2.5 oz. of the mystery ingredient to the rest of the mix, to be able to make this Sukie pizza.  This was really a different pizza.  The dressings for this mystery pizza were, St. Dalfour Royal Fig (100% fruit) from France, powdered confectionary sugar, and fresh blueberries.  The crumb of this mystery pizza was really moist and tender. One of our test tasters that we gave a sample of this pizza to, wanted to buy the rest of the pizza, but Steve and I wanted to take some slices home. We did give that test tester another slice. Two customers also tried this mystery Sukie pizza and also really liked it.  In my opinion, this mystery Sukie pizza, would be interesting if anyone wanted to try it.  It was very easy to make.

The one thing that was changed when making this mystery pizza and also the other two Sukie pizzas today, was we didn’t let the dough proof as long in any of them.  The bulk rise and after forming the dough ball were only a total of a little less than 3 hrs.  I don’t know if that was what was wrong before, with the pizza I had made at home or not, but the dough had seemed too extensible, and all the doughs today performed well.  All of 3 doughs opened well, and didn’t want to just almost fall apart when opening them.

Peter, I think you will be glad to hear all three Sukie pizzas turned out well.  ;D The one Sukie pizza was made with the Bisquick Pancake and Baking mix, with your “goody bag”.  The other Sukie pizza was made with the Buttermilk Biscuit mix, in combination with the other first “goody bag”.

Anyone care to guess what this Mystery Sukie pizza was made from?

Pictures of Mystery Sukie pizza.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #170 on: May 17, 2011, 09:54:00 PM »
more pictures

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #171 on: May 17, 2011, 09:56:42 PM »
more pictures

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #172 on: May 17, 2011, 10:00:57 PM »
end of pictures

Norma
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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #173 on: May 17, 2011, 10:28:25 PM »
Norma,

Whatever you used to make the pizza, it sure looks tasty.

My guess is that you used a Betty Crocker blueberry muffin pouch mix. My guess on the mystery ingredient is a dairy product, maybe sour cream or something like that.

Peter

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #174 on: May 17, 2011, 10:35:55 PM »
Norma,

Whatever you used to make the pizza, it sure looks tasty.

My guess is that you used a Betty Crocker blueberry muffin pouch mix. My guess on the mystery ingredient is a dairy product, maybe sour cream or something like that.

Peter

Peter,

You are close in the guess.  It was the Betty Crocker Triple Berry muffin pouch mix.  The Sukie pizza made with the muffin mix did really taste good! I never would have thought a pizza could be made out of a muffin mix, but your “goody bag”, made it possible.  ;D The mystery ingredient wasn’t a dairy product, but I will give another clue.  It was a dry ingredient used because the water amount made the dough too sticky.

Picture of product used to make this Sukie pizza.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #175 on: May 17, 2011, 10:40:13 PM »
This is the Sukie pizza made with the Bisquick Pancake and Baking mix with Peter’s “goody bag”.  Second successful Sukie pizza made today.  ;D  From start to the finish, only less than 3 hrs.  The temperature at market was cooler today.

Pictures below

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #176 on: May 17, 2011, 10:43:18 PM »
more pictures

Norma
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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #177 on: May 17, 2011, 10:47:02 PM »
more pictures

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #178 on: May 17, 2011, 10:50:26 PM »
more pictures

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday
« Reply #179 on: May 17, 2011, 10:51:46 PM »
end of pictures

Norma
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