Author Topic: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?  (Read 4177 times)

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Offline CycloneFlyer

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Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« on: April 27, 2011, 03:45:12 PM »
Hi, I'm just starting into making pizza seriously.

After probably longer than I should've spent searching the internet, despite getting a KA Pro 600 for $288 on sale, I am going to return it because my primary use would be pizza and bread, not cookies.

I see descriptions for the Bosch and Electrolux. Can someone let me know which specific models of these people are referring to?



Offline CycloneFlyer

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2011, 06:30:17 PM »
Is it better to get a new Bosch or Electrolux, or would an old Hobart Kitchenaid (like a K5-A) satisfy my needs if its mainly my own personal pizza and bread experiments?

buceriasdon

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2011, 07:36:35 PM »
Chau started this excellent thread on the Bosch and it has a wealth of info on this mixer. I myself am having to choose between the DLX and the Bosch but I have time to decide. Question, how much dough do you plan on making at a time?
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11962.0.html
Don

Offline flyboy4ual

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2011, 08:14:59 PM »
I have the Bosch and love it!

Scott D.

Offline tjkoko

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2011, 10:43:39 PM »
Listen, either get the Bosch (Electrolux, same thing??) otherwise get on ebay to get a 5qt HOBART N-50.  Brand new retailing at $2300, those HOBARTS have sold for around $500 in used but great condition.  And they're literally built like a tank.
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Online Mmmph

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2011, 11:04:26 PM »
Electrolux Assistent Original N28 here.

It rocks.
Sono venuto, ho visto, ho mangiato

Offline breadman_nz

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2011, 12:47:52 AM »
The Electrolux DLX (I own an older Assistent Royale N22) is excellent for pasta, pizza, bread, croissant doughs (etc. etc.). It does take some getting used to, and although at times I swear it isn't acting firmly enough on the dough (and does require some baby sitting at times), it is one solid machine capable of handling big batches. In fact, I haven't had the occasion to strain or overload mine so far. I got mine cheap second hand ($100 USD) and do highly recommend it for home / small commercial operation.

That said, I also got a cheap-ish Hobart N50 second hand which I am repainting/rebuilding right now. I haven't had a chance to mix with it yet and am looking forward to comparing and contrasting the two mixers as soon as I have it back together!!
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 12:51:22 AM by breadman_nz »

Offline CycloneFlyer

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2011, 01:15:15 AM »
Thanks everyone, this site is seriously the best thing I've ever found.

The thing I usually make is my deep dish which sports about 5-6 cups of flour for a double batch (and a 1/2 cup cornmeal). Until now I've always done it by hand and its worked well enough.  But there is also a crap ton of yeast in there, so it ends up being quite a bit of dough and I just didn't trust the KA after reading everything here.

What I want a mixer for is to start doing thin crust (new york and cracker mainly). Every time I've tried to make a single or double batch I simply can't mix it well enough by hand (or at least I assume that's the problem, it ends up never being able to stretch without springing back), so I'm not really sure how many doughs I would make at once. I liked the comments that the Bosch works good with both small batches as well as cake/cookies. While I mainly will make pizza or bread, I'd like to be able to use it as a general mixer and I'm a recent college grad so I'm trying not to spend too much money.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2011, 07:25:32 AM »
Thanks Don.  

Cycloneflyer, it depends on what you consider a small batch is.  The smallest batch I can evenly mix in the Bosch is about 400gm.  The bosch seems to do moderately hydrated doughs well, but not really wet doughs as the dough tends to just get wrapped up in the center post.  And I'm not sure it does dry doughs well either to tell you the truth.  If my dough is a bit on the dry side, it just tends to be pushed around in circles.  So if you are doing mostly cracker crust, you may have to do it by hand initially.  

I believe member Jet Deck has made a dry dough in his Bosch so maybe he can give us his experience.

For wetter doughs, I've heard the DLX is better than the Bosch.

Offline tjkoko

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2011, 07:37:56 AM »
... Every time I've tried to make a single or double batch I simply can't mix it well enough by hand (or at least I assume that's the problem, it ends up never being able to stretch without springing back), ...

If you're having a problem with the dough springing back, then it's "you" and not the mixer.  After mixing or kneading, dough requires a period of relaxation so that it can be stretched and hold that stretch.  And also, dry doughs are tougher to stretch than wet ones!   :o
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 08:29:22 AM by tjkoko »
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2011, 08:34:30 AM »
CycloneFlyer,

I don't recall reading anything about the Bosch mixer being used to make a cracker-style dough, especially one with low hydration (around 35%). I have found that a food processor (I have an old 14-cup Cuisinart model) to be the best for a cracker-style dough, followed by hand kneading. I would rank my KitchenAid stand mixer with a C-hook last for that style. (I also have a bread maker but have not tried it to make a cracker-style dough.)

If you want to read how to make a cracker-style dough by hand, that is, without using any machine, you might want to take a look at the method described in Reply 61 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5762.msg49722.html#msg49722. That method entails the use of a proofing box to warm up the dough so that it can be rolled out easily (this is where most difficulties and failures arise with cracker-style doughs). I describe the use of the proofing box in Reply 16 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5762.msg49138.html#msg49138.

Hopefully, a member who uses the Bosch to make a cracker-style dough will step forward and report on the results.

Peter

Offline tjkoko

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2011, 08:56:23 AM »
And as Pete-zza mentions, warm doughs are easier to stretch than cold ones.
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2011, 09:34:42 AM »
CycloneFlyer,

Hopefully, a member who uses the Bosch to make a cracker-style dough will step forward and report on the results.

Peter


I have successfully made the DKM cracker crust in the Bosch about 4 times, but the first time was fail.  I reported about it in this thread. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13375.msg132544.html#msg132544
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Offline CycloneFlyer

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2011, 03:36:50 PM »
tjkoko, I am totally willing to accept if it is me. I did just buy a scale to better measure ingredient %'s, but following a variety of recipes with different hydrations and rest periods from a few hours to a few days I still continue to not get dough that can stretch without a roller. I have tried AP flour, Bread, and Hi-Gluten. It did stretch better the one time I kneaded it for almost 45 minutes (which was a little painful).

Is it possible its not being kneaded well enough? What else it could be? Any general advice?

Regarding the mixer: does that mean a KA Pro 600 would work fine for small batches of cracker/deep dish or am I still better off with a different one?

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2011, 04:17:48 PM »
My general advice is to pick a recipe and stick with it until you "get it right"  Each of the flours you listed have different characteristics when kneading.  It can be overwhelming to newbies (myself included) to get every step just right AND to develope proper gluten structure for the given flour and cooking temp.  The best you can do is to document your work (pictures).  People here can give you tips and  pointers based on the look of the dough.  As Peter said the cracker recipes lend themselves to a food processor.  I made it work in the Bosch, it is just really dry and would be very hard to do by hand I would guess.  45 minutes is a long time to knead.  What recipe are you going to try next?
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Offline CycloneFlyer

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2011, 04:30:10 PM »
Honestly, right now I am just trying to figure out what mixer is best for me. I've mainly worked on deep dish and would just randomly try another recipe while I had the other ingredients out (without much experiementing). So I'm not set on anything. I think the Barnaby's style recipe is the thing I'd really like to master next, however I've always wanted to be able to make New York style.

Either way, I'd like some machine, but I don't know what is best. At most I could drop a little over $400 if I have to. I don't have money to get a processor and multiple mixers, so I'm trying to figure out what mixer will give me the most versatility for starting out.

Offline tjkoko

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2011, 10:34:38 PM »
tjkoko, I am totally willing to accept if it is me. I did just buy a scale to better measure ingredient %'s, but following a variety of recipes with different hydrations and rest periods from a few hours to a few days I still continue to not get dough that can stretch without a roller. I have tried AP flour, Bread, and Hi-Gluten. It did stretch better the one time I kneaded it for almost 45 minutes (which was a little painful).

Is it possible its not being kneaded well enough? What else it could be? Any general advice?

@Cyclone:

FORTY-FIVE MINUTES.  OMG!



By hand or spatula, mix your dough (AP hydrated at 60-65%) to the point where all the flour is just barely moistened but evenly.  At that point you'll see some areas that are "evenly or well" hydrated and others that are quite lumpy.  That's okay.  Now, allow the dough to rest 30 minutes.

Once rested, knead the dough for 20-30 seconds, TWENTY TO THIRTY SECONDS.  Yes, that's 20-30 seconds.  Then STOP and  allow the dough a 30 minute rest period.  

Finally place your dough into the pan and stretch to shape.  The dough's rising time depends on the amount of yeast that's been used: anywhere  between 1/2 tsp - 2 1/4 tsp per 3 C flour depending on how fast that you want the rise to be.

Such is what I do with my bread dough (substitute shaping for stretching) and it works just fine.  And my bread dough formulation is quite close to my pizza dough formulation.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 11:05:11 PM by tjkoko »
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Offline tjkoko

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2011, 10:51:39 PM »
Thanks everyone, this site is seriously the best thing I've ever found.

The thing I usually make is my deep dish which sports about 5-6 cups of flour for a double batch (and a 1/2 cup cornmeal). Until now I've always done it by hand and its worked well enough.  But there is also a crap ton of yeast in there, so it ends up being quite a bit of dough and I just didn't trust the KA after reading everything here.

A crap ton of yeast, how much and what kind of yeast.  Do yourself a favor, get a pound of SAF RED INSTANT YEAST ($8 approx) from KAF.  To substitute for a packet of standard Fleischmann's yeast, use 2 1/4 tsp of the SAF.

What helped me is a book entitled THE PIZZA GOURMET by Shea MacKenzie.  Page 40 lists a very basic pizza dough formula and I substituted 3C KA AP flour for 3C bread flour and the results came out fine.  Although it may not be the kind of dough you're looking for, the portions of ingredients are very basic and here are the portions to get you started on you road to success:

1C warm water
1 package active dry yeast or 2 1/4 tsp SAF RED INSTANT YEAST
1/2 tsp date sugar or brown sugar
3 1/2 C bread flour or 3 1/2 C AP flour  3 C for the dough and 1/2 C for dusting
1 tsp sea salt
1 1/2 TBS olive oil (to be added to the dough at the beginning)


And remember to knead only 20-30 seconds.

« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 10:55:58 PM by tjkoko »
Home bread baker for 10 years.

Offline CycloneFlyer

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2011, 11:17:49 PM »
tj,

Thanks for the two sets of advice. I will probably take a stab at that tomorrow. A crap ton is not quite an exact amount I guess :).

Thanks so much! I'll post some pics at how it goes. Thank you again!!!

Online widespreadpizza

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Re: Just returned my KA Pro 600, what mixer should I get?
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2011, 12:25:39 AM »
CF,  I would get the bosch.  It does everything well.  Its a no brainer.  -marc


 

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