hybrid Reinhart

[fazzari]

John,

Amazing that your hybrid dough ball could go for 96 hours in the fridge, when you added 0.5% IDY to your dough mix.  Fantastic looking pie!!    I am sure it was tasty.

Norma

This is surprise to me as well...but it's a good kind of surprise.  I was figuring this dough would be good for 3 days...but I thought it was worth it because of how good it was after just 1 day...and now I know it will be good at least 6 days...

This one was in the fridge 112 hours...

John

[norma427]

John,

I used your last hybrid Reinhart dough formula at Reply 27 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13697.msg140122.html#msg140122 (but I decreased the yeast amount)  and mixed in my UBM yesterday. If you are interested in seeing what the dough looked like, it is at Reply 79 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13668.msg141773.html#msg141773 I will see Monday what needs to be done to the dough.  I plan on using one dough ball on Tuesday to make into a pizza..

Norma

[fazzari]

I'll be interested to see how it turns out

John

[norma427]

I'll be interested to see how it turns out

John

John,

Thanks for being interested in how your formula works out.  I will post pictures on your thread when I make the pizza.  Your pizzas always look so great, and I thought I wanted to give my UBM a shot with a Reinhart dough, fermented for a few days to see what would happen.  I am always looking for faster ways to make any doughs, and really like Reinhart doughs.

Norma

[norma427]

John,

This is the pie I made with you hybrid Reinhart formula and cold fermented for 3 days.  I only did a couple of reballs, yesterday afternoon.  My pie rim didn’t get as brown as yours, but the hybrid Reinhart formula did make a great pie.  The rim was so moist and the bottom crust was crisp.  Thanks for posting your hybrid formula. 

I will post the other pictures on my UBM thread, but these are a few pictures from the bake today.

Norma

[fazzari]

John,

This is the pie I made with you hybrid Reinhart formula and cold fermented for 3 days.  I only did a couple of reballs, yesterday afternoon.  My pie rim didn’t get as brown as yours, but the hybrid Reinhart formula did make a great pie.  The rim was so moist and the bottom crust was crisp.  Thanks for posting your hybrid formula. 

I will post the other pictures on my UBM thread, but these are a few pictures from the bake today.

Norma

Simplicity Norma, nice moist crumb....thanks for the pictures.

John

[fazzari]

Here is another go with my hybrid using the same recipe posted earlier.

The reasons this recipe and process intrigue me are:
1)  After the 4 minute mix, the 5 minute rest, the 3 minute mix, and then the scaling, balling and
     refrigeration....the dough isn't touched until reball time (5 to 10 hours prior to bake).
2)  Even though this dough is fairly highly hydrated, using Reinhart's method of using oil to scale and
     ball makes this dough a cinch to handle.
3)  The dough can be used right out of the fridge ( no warm up time needed)
4)  The dough is fairly strong, yet easy to stretch out (without that crappy overstretching sensation)
5)  The dough is very good even after a short while (over 12 hours in the fridge)
6)  The dough is very good even into 7 days (maybe it would go longer, I'm out of dough on day 7)

Here is a meatball and onion pizza I made for my wife and myself tonight.  It was baked in my home oven at about 530 degrees, and took about 8 minutes.  I love the looks of these baked cooler for a little longer time.....they are golden brown all over.
John

[norma427]

John,

Your recent hybrid Reinhart looks delicious!  I am also intrigued with your recipe and process.  I still have a hybrid dough ball cold fermenting and even after day 5 it looks fine and it was one of the two dough balls just thrown together in the UBM. I will post a picture of what dough ball looks like at 5 days cold ferment at my UBM thread. I believe you have a winner in your hybrid Reinhart. 

Norma

[fazzari]

Thanks Norma
I'm anxious to see your results!!
John

[norma427]

Thanks Norma
I'm anxious to see your results!!
John

John,

So far I am really liking your hybrid Reinhart dough.    I looked at the dough tonight and it still isn't overfermenting.  Usually my doughs don't go that long without more fermentation bubbles.  It intrigues me why the dough doesn't ferment more.

Norma

[fazzari]

Yup, I'm still using more yeast than you did, and by day 6 or 7 there might be huge bubbles in the dough, but simply reballing the dough seems to work everytime.  Did you see Scott's reply regarding fermentation here:  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14161.0.html    What great info!!!

Here's a pizza we made tonight:  I'm really loving those rotisserie chickens you can buy in the stores nowdays.  Anyway, chicken, onion, rosemary, mustard and extremely light cheeses.  46 Hours in fridge, reball 5 hours prior to bake, 520 degree home oven

John

[norma427]

Yup, I'm still using more yeast than you did, and by day 6 or 7 there might be huge bubbles in the dough, but simply reballing the dough seems to work everytime.  Did you see Scott's reply regarding fermentation here:  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14161.0.html    What great info!!!

Here's a pizza we made tonight:  I'm really loving those rotisserie chickens you can buy in the stores nowdays.  Anyway, chicken, onion, rosemary, mustard and extremely light cheeses.  46 Hours in fridge, reball 5 hours prior to bake, 520 degree home oven

John

John,

I did see Scott’s post.  I also have been learning that a reball can help a dough that I thought might be overfermented come alive again.  I tried an experiment on my preferment Lehmann dough thread with a dough ball I thought was way overfermented because I had left it in my pizza prep refrigerator for 3 days without refrigeration.  I only made bread out of that dough ball, but was surprised how much it came back to life, with a little bit of flour and a touch of added IDY.  Dough still amazes me in many ways.

Your pizza tonight looks mouth watering and I really like your choice of toppings.    Can’t wait to try the extra hybrid Reinhart dough ball next Tuesday.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma and John,

Marco (pizzanapoletana) use to chide me from time to time when I--or other members--talked about exhaustion of sugar in the dough during fermentation. You can read some of his posts on this subject and related issues such as gluten destruction at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1055.msg9357/topicseen.html#msg9357, Reply 15 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1291.msg11704/topicseen.html#msg11704 and Reply 11 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3057.msg25947/topicseen.html#msg25947.

Peter

[norma427]

Peter,

Thanks for referencing those posts from Marco.  Marco posted it is rare that yeast will consume all the simplified sugar in dough in normal circumstances.  He also posted protease activity may destroy the gluten structure over time and then only the protein breaks down.  So his posts must mean that there shouldn’t be lack of sugar if the dough is reballed, if I got it right.

I also guess that is why John is having such good results with letting his dough go for so long and it still can produce a great pizza.

I wonder what the best experiment would be to use with the hybrid Reinhart dough ball I am now cold fermenting.  To me it looks like it is starting to ferment too fast, as of this morning.  I wonder if I just punch down the dough ball now or let it go to do a reball a day before I make a pizza.

I still have much to learn about dough.  I want to be able to learn by just watching a dough what might happen. 

John,

What are your thoughts about my dough ball?  It gets me nervous when a dough ball starts to look like this.  Do you think my dough ball will last until Tuesday without any punch downs or a reball?

Pictures of dough ball this morning   

Norma

[tinroofrusted]

...mixed 3 minutes on stir plus one half.  

Can you clarify for me what stir plus one half means?  On my KitchenAid mixer, there is stir, followed by 2, 4, 6, etc. There is no position in between stir and 2.  Thanks.  

Tin Roof

[fazzari]

Peter
Many thanks for the good reading from Marco

Norma
I think your dough is just fine....I've had some really ugly dough balls that filled up the whole container with huge bubbles.....at times I thought they were toast, but simply reballing fixed all of that....just wait until the day you bake it.   By the way Norma, have you tried using a screen on the doughs that don't brown like you want...if I'm talking out of turn just ignore me....it looks as if the bottoms of some pizzas have no problem browning...if you could throw a screen underneath when its about 3/4s the color you want, this will slow the bottom down and let your edges brown more. Just a thought.

Tin Roof
I can move my lever to right in between numbers to get a speed faster than stir but slower than 2

John

[norma427]

Norma
I think your dough is just fine....I've had some really ugly dough balls that filled up the whole container with huge bubbles.....at times I thought they were toast, but simply reballing fixed all of that....just wait until the day you bake it.   By the way Norma, have you tried using a screen on the doughs that don't brown like you want...if I'm talking out of turn just ignore me....it looks as if the bottoms of some pizzas have no problem browning...if you could throw a screen underneath when its about 3/4s the color you want, this will slow the bottom down and let your edges brown more. Just a thought.

John

John,

Thanks for telling me my dough looks fine and how some of your doughs have looked. Do some of your doughs that are fermented for a long while, develop spots on or specks on the top of the dough?   Good to hear probably reballing will fix the dough.  It has always worried me when my dough gets to this point or further.  I do use screens in some of my experimental pies when the bottom seems to want to burn too fast, but didn’t think about using screens when my top crusts aren’t brown enough.  I usually go by how my cheeses brown to know when my pies are baked enough.  I will try and use the screen method to see how that works.  Thanks for the tip!

Norma

[fazzari]

John,

Thanks for telling me my dough looks fine and how some of your doughs have looked. Do some of your doughs that are fermented for a long while, develop spots on or specks on the top of the dough?   Good to hear probably reballing will fix the dough.  It has always worried me when my dough gets to this point or further.  I do use screens in some of my experimental pies when the bottom seems to want to burn too fast, but didn’t think about using screens when my top crusts aren’t brown enough.  I usually go by how my cheeses brown to know when my pies are baked enough.  I will try and use the screen method to see how that works.  Thanks for the tip!

Norma

Most of the time when I see specks, it's when i'm using high gluten flour...and it's funny because sometimes they show up very fast, like day 2..  don't have a clue why

I don't know how long screens have been around, but back in the olden days before we knew about them (35 years ago, we would use pizza trays to throw under our pizzas to stop the bottom and let the top catch up).  Screens do a much better job, and are the best tool an oven tender could ask for!
John

[norma427]

Most of the time when I see specks, it's when i'm using high gluten flour...and it's funny because sometimes they show up very fast, like day 2..  don't have a clue why

I don't know how long screens have been around, but back in the olden days before we knew about them (35 years ago, we would use pizza trays to throw under our pizzas to stop the bottom and let the top catch up).  Screens do a much better job, and are the best tool an oven tender could ask for!
John

John,

It is interesting that you only see specks on high-gluten flour and they show up fast for you sometimes.  I just looked at my hybrid dough and there are a few specks on the dough and I used KABF in the formula.  If my dough makes it to Tuesday, with a reball, it will be interesting to me to see what kind of pizza it will make.

It is also interesting  to hear how you didn’t have screens 35 years ago and then used pizza trays.

Thanks for your information! 

Norma  

[norma427]

John,

I just wanted to let you know your hybrid Reinhart dough did make a great pizza.  I only had one problem, which was my fault.  I should have dumped the dough ball into my flour container, but didn’t.  I just dusted the dough ball before opening it.  It then wanted to stick to the peel and when I went to put it into the oven it stuck some, and didn’t get round.  The crumb was very moist though. The taste of the crust was fantastic.    I did use 2 screens.  I will post other pictures tomorrow, on my UBM thread.

Thanks for you hybrid Reinhart formula! 

A few pictures

Norma