Author Topic: hybrid Reinhart  (Read 17049 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline fazzari

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1020
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2011, 11:36:10 PM »
Yup, I'm still using more yeast than you did, and by day 6 or 7 there might be huge bubbles in the dough, but simply reballing the dough seems to work everytime.  Did you see Scott's reply regarding fermentation here:  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14161.0.html    What great info!!!

Here's a pizza we made tonight:  I'm really loving those rotisserie chickens you can buy in the stores nowdays.  Anyway, chicken, onion, rosemary, mustard and extremely light cheeses.  46 Hours in fridge, reball 5 hours prior to bake, 520 degree home oven

John


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24030
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2011, 12:00:49 AM »
Yup, I'm still using more yeast than you did, and by day 6 or 7 there might be huge bubbles in the dough, but simply reballing the dough seems to work everytime.  Did you see Scott's reply regarding fermentation here:  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14161.0.html    What great info!!!

Here's a pizza we made tonight:  I'm really loving those rotisserie chickens you can buy in the stores nowdays.  Anyway, chicken, onion, rosemary, mustard and extremely light cheeses.  46 Hours in fridge, reball 5 hours prior to bake, 520 degree home oven

John


John,

I did see Scottís post.  I also have been learning that a reball can help a dough that I thought might be overfermented come alive again.  I tried an experiment on my preferment Lehmann dough thread with a dough ball I thought was way overfermented because I had left it in my pizza prep refrigerator for 3 days without refrigeration.  I only made bread out of that dough ball, but was surprised how much it came back to life, with a little bit of flour and a touch of added IDY.  Dough still amazes me in many ways.

Your pizza tonight looks mouth watering and I really like your choice of toppings.  :)  Canít wait to try the extra hybrid Reinhart dough ball next Tuesday.

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23357
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2011, 09:58:18 AM »
Norma and John,

Marco (pizzanapoletana) use to chide me from time to time when I--or other members--talked about exhaustion of sugar in the dough during fermentation. You can read some of his posts on this subject and related issues such as gluten destruction at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1055.msg9357/topicseen.html#msg9357, Reply 15 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1291.msg11704/topicseen.html#msg11704 and Reply 11 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3057.msg25947/topicseen.html#msg25947.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24030
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2011, 11:12:16 AM »
Peter,

Thanks for referencing those posts from Marco.  Marco posted it is rare that yeast will consume all the simplified sugar in dough in normal circumstances.  He also posted protease activity may destroy the gluten structure over time and then only the protein breaks down.  So his posts must mean that there shouldnít be lack of sugar if the dough is reballed, if I got it right.

I also guess that is why John is having such good results with letting his dough go for so long and it still can produce a great pizza.

I wonder what the best experiment would be to use with the hybrid Reinhart dough ball I am now cold fermenting.  To me it looks like it is starting to ferment too fast, as of this morning.  I wonder if I just punch down the dough ball now or let it go to do a reball a day before I make a pizza.

I still have much to learn about dough.  I want to be able to learn by just watching a dough what might happen. 

John,

What are your thoughts about my dough ball?  It gets me nervous when a dough ball starts to look like this.  Do you think my dough ball will last until Tuesday without any punch downs or a reball?

Pictures of dough ball this morning   

Norma

Offline tinroofrusted

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1379
  • Location: OC, CA
  • Experimenting....
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2011, 11:27:52 AM »

...mixed 3 minutes on stir plus one half.  



Can you clarify for me what stir plus one half means?  On my KitchenAid mixer, there is stir, followed by 2, 4, 6, etc. There is no position in between stir and 2.  Thanks.  

Tin Roof
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 11:31:13 AM by tinroofrusted »

Offline fazzari

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1020
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2011, 11:35:32 PM »
Peter
Many thanks for the good reading from Marco

Norma
I think your dough is just fine....I've had some really ugly dough balls that filled up the whole container with huge bubbles.....at times I thought they were toast, but simply reballing fixed all of that....just wait until the day you bake it.   By the way Norma, have you tried using a screen on the doughs that don't brown like you want...if I'm talking out of turn just ignore me....it looks as if the bottoms of some pizzas have no problem browning...if you could throw a screen underneath when its about 3/4s the color you want, this will slow the bottom down and let your edges brown more. Just a thought.

Tin Roof
I can move my lever to right in between numbers to get a speed faster than stir but slower than 2

John

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24030
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #56 on: June 11, 2011, 12:12:44 AM »

Norma
I think your dough is just fine....I've had some really ugly dough balls that filled up the whole container with huge bubbles.....at times I thought they were toast, but simply reballing fixed all of that....just wait until the day you bake it.   By the way Norma, have you tried using a screen on the doughs that don't brown like you want...if I'm talking out of turn just ignore me....it looks as if the bottoms of some pizzas have no problem browning...if you could throw a screen underneath when its about 3/4s the color you want, this will slow the bottom down and let your edges brown more. Just a thought.

John

John,

Thanks for telling me my dough looks fine and how some of your doughs have looked. Do some of your doughs that are fermented for a long while, develop spots on or specks on the top of the dough?   Good to hear probably reballing will fix the dough.  It has always worried me when my dough gets to this point or further.  I do use screens in some of my experimental pies when the bottom seems to want to burn too fast, but didnít think about using screens when my top crusts arenít brown enough.  I usually go by how my cheeses brown to know when my pies are baked enough.  I will try and use the screen method to see how that works.  Thanks for the tip!

Norma

Offline fazzari

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1020
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #57 on: June 11, 2011, 07:29:23 PM »
John,

Thanks for telling me my dough looks fine and how some of your doughs have looked. Do some of your doughs that are fermented for a long while, develop spots on or specks on the top of the dough?   Good to hear probably reballing will fix the dough.  It has always worried me when my dough gets to this point or further.  I do use screens in some of my experimental pies when the bottom seems to want to burn too fast, but didnít think about using screens when my top crusts arenít brown enough.  I usually go by how my cheeses brown to know when my pies are baked enough.  I will try and use the screen method to see how that works.  Thanks for the tip!

Norma
Most of the time when I see specks, it's when i'm using high gluten flour...and it's funny because sometimes they show up very fast, like day 2..  don't have a clue why

I don't know how long screens have been around, but back in the olden days before we knew about them (35 years ago, we would use pizza trays to throw under our pizzas to stop the bottom and let the top catch up).  Screens do a much better job, and are the best tool an oven tender could ask for!
John

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24030
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #58 on: June 11, 2011, 08:33:41 PM »
Most of the time when I see specks, it's when i'm using high gluten flour...and it's funny because sometimes they show up very fast, like day 2..  don't have a clue why

I don't know how long screens have been around, but back in the olden days before we knew about them (35 years ago, we would use pizza trays to throw under our pizzas to stop the bottom and let the top catch up).  Screens do a much better job, and are the best tool an oven tender could ask for!
John

John,

It is interesting that you only see specks on high-gluten flour and they show up fast for you sometimes.  I just looked at my hybrid dough and there are a few specks on the dough and I used KABF in the formula.  If my dough makes it to Tuesday, with a reball, it will be interesting to me to see what kind of pizza it will make.

It is also interesting  to hear how you didnít have screens 35 years ago and then used pizza trays.

Thanks for your information!  :)

Norma  


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24030
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #59 on: June 14, 2011, 11:04:44 PM »
John,

I just wanted to let you know your hybrid Reinhart dough did make a great pizza.  I only had one problem, which was my fault.  I should have dumped the dough ball into my flour container, but didnít.  I just dusted the dough ball before opening it.  It then wanted to stick to the peel and when I went to put it into the oven it stuck some, and didnít get round.  The crumb was very moist though. The taste of the crust was fantastic.  ;D  I did use 2 screens.  I will post other pictures tomorrow, on my UBM thread.

Thanks for you hybrid Reinhart formula!  :)

A few pictures

Norma

Offline fazzari

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1020
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #60 on: June 15, 2011, 01:52:49 AM »
Thank you Norma...I would have to see these before going to bed......they look fantastic!!!

Thanks for trying them
John

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24030
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #61 on: June 15, 2011, 07:41:03 AM »
Thank you Norma...I would have to see these before going to bed......they look fantastic!!!

Thanks for trying them
John

John,

I put the other pictures under the UBM thread if you are interested in looking at them at Reply 93 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13668.msg143137.html#msg143137 I really like your dough formula for the hybrid Reinhart pizza.  If I have time this Friday I am going to mix 5 doughs balls in my Hobart mixer at market, and then do the reball on Monday to see what happens.  I really like the fantastic oven spring, the moistness in the crust, and nice crisp bottom crust.  As I posted before, I think you have a winner in the hybrid Reinhart formula!   ;D

Norma

Offline fazzari

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1020
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #62 on: June 15, 2011, 12:48:03 PM »
I'm just glad it works Norma....did you use your dough right out of the fridge, or did you warm it up?  If you experiment at all you will find the doughs are good from day 1, and just get marginally better.

Best wishes
John

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24030
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2011, 02:36:29 PM »
I'm just glad it works Norma....did you use your dough right out of the fridge, or did you warm it up?  If you experiment at all you will find the doughs are good from day 1, and just get marginally better.

Best wishes
John

John,

I did use the dough right out of the fridge. Using it right out of the fridge surprised me that the pizza didnít get bubbles in the middle, like some other doughs do right out of the refrigerator. Did you ever experiment with this dough and bulk cold ferment it, then divide and ball to see what would happen? 

If I ever make your hybrid Reinhart for market, I would have to make the dough on a Friday.

Thanks for the best wishes!  :)

Norma

Offline fazzari

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1020
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #64 on: June 15, 2011, 03:06:08 PM »
Sorry
I've never bulk fermented....my goal has always been simplicity..so I do all my work at mix time.
John

Offline spbrez

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 17
  • Location: dumfries, va
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #65 on: June 17, 2011, 04:12:34 PM »
John&Norma,
I will definitely be trying this dough this week and will post my results. You guys have my mouth watering! :chef:

Offline fazzari

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1020
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #66 on: June 17, 2011, 11:25:43 PM »
Hey Norma
36 hour dough...my employees fight for the edges!

John


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24030
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #67 on: June 18, 2011, 07:55:26 AM »
Hey Norma
36 hour dough...my employees fight for the edges!

John


John,

Your hybrid Reinhart pizza looks great after 36 hrs. of fermentation.  ;D Darn you John, this early in the morning you almost have me salivating over the keyboard.  :-D I would have loved to try your pizza.  I can imagine how your employees were fighting for the edges.  Great job!  What were your toppings for that pizza?  They sure look good.

Norma

Offline fazzari

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1020
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #68 on: June 18, 2011, 12:46:09 PM »
This is a standard breakfast pizza we have every once in a while.  1 beaten egg, 4 oz mozz, a little romano, an ounce of ham, chopped green pepper and onion.  I sincerely think there is a place for a breakfast pizza....I don't know where yet...if I were a younger man and had the time I would investigate.

JOhn

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24030
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #69 on: June 18, 2011, 12:49:54 PM »
This is a standard breakfast pizza we have every once in a while.  1 beaten egg, 4 oz mozz, a little romano, an ounce of ham, chopped green pepper and onion.  I sincerely think there is a place for a breakfast pizza....I don't know where yet...if I were a younger man and had the time I would investigate.

JOhn

John,

Thanks for your recipe for your toppings you used on your last pizza.  :) I will give a try soon.

Norma

Offline fazzari

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1020
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #70 on: June 22, 2011, 01:32:48 PM »
Norma
Here is the experiment I wanted to try with frozen doughs.  I took my standard hybrid which had fermented in the fridge for 3 days, reballed it and stuck it in a freezer bag to freeze for 2 days.   Took the dough out of the freezer and let set in fridge 1 day.  I reballed this one 4 hours prior to bake.  The dough was solid...it gave some resistance when I pushed it out....if I were really good I would have given it a couple quick tosses...but I'm not.  My point is you can lift this dough up and let it hang from your fists, thus all the surface flour falls off.  I'm showing you a photo of my peel with corn meal....there is very little....the corn meal does not stick to the dough and what little does brushes off easily.  Coarse corn meal is what we've used for all 36 years I've been in the biz....You CAN overdo it though..just know that!

I didn't have much in my fridge for a pizza...so I beat up a couple eggs, added black pepper and mozzarella.  This baked in my home oven, at about 535 degrees, just a bit more than 5 minutes.  The pictures will show that the crust and bottom could have been much browner (and were well on the way to getting there), but I had to pull the pizza before i burned the top (I definitely wanted to eat this too).  Look at the oven spring...this with just 4 hours from reball...and I'm telling you 2 hours would also do the trick....and I have to add...this was a great breakfast !!!

Best wishes
John

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24030
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #71 on: June 22, 2011, 02:43:44 PM »
Norma
Here is the experiment I wanted to try with frozen doughs.  I took my standard hybrid which had fermented in the fridge for 3 days, reballed it and stuck it in a freezer bag to freeze for 2 days.   Took the dough out of the freezer and let set in fridge 1 day.  I reballed this one 4 hours prior to bake.  The dough was solid...it gave some resistance when I pushed it out....if I were really good I would have given it a couple quick tosses...but I'm not.  My point is you can lift this dough up and let it hang from your fists, thus all the surface flour falls off.  I'm showing you a photo of my peel with corn meal....there is very little....the corn meal does not stick to the dough and what little does brushes off easily.  Coarse corn meal is what we've used for all 36 years I've been in the biz....You CAN overdo it though..just know that!

I didn't have much in my fridge for a pizza...so I beat up a couple eggs, added black pepper and mozzarella.  This baked in my home oven, at about 535 degrees, just a bit more than 5 minutes.  The pictures will show that the crust and bottom could have been much browner (and were well on the way to getting there), but I had to pull the pizza before i burned the top (I definitely wanted to eat this too).  Look at the oven spring...this with just 4 hours from reball...and I'm telling you 2 hours would also do the trick....and I have to add...this was a great breakfast !!!

Best wishes
John


John,

Thanks for doing the experiment on the hybrid Reinhart frozen dough ball.  I can understand how important it is for all the flour to fall off.  I appreciate you showed me a picture of your peel with the coarse corn meal.  I will look for some coarse corn meal in my area this coming week. 

You did get great oven spring even with a reball just 4 hrs. before.  :) I just ate lots of pizza yesterday, but I sure would have like to tasted your breakfast pizza today!  Great job and thanks for helping me and anyone else that might want to try your formula.

Norma

Offline c0mpl3x

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1144
  • Age: 28
  • Location: north of pittsburgh PA
  • crumb bubbles!
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #72 on: June 22, 2011, 03:04:56 PM »
John,

Thanks for doing the experiment on the hybrid Reinhart frozen dough ball.  I can understand how important it is for all the flour to fall off.  I appreciate you showed me a picture of your peel with the coarse corn meal.  I will look for some coarse corn meal in my area this coming week. 

You did get great oven spring even with a reball just 4 hrs. before.  :) I just ate lots of pizza yesterday, but I sure would have like to tasted your breakfast pizza today!  Great job and thanks for helping me and anyone else that might want to try your formula.

Norma

norma, most yellow or white corn meals you buy in the baking ingredient section are coarse corn meals (quaker, betty crocker, hodgson mill, etc)
Hotdogs kill more people than sharks do, yearly.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24030
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #73 on: June 22, 2011, 03:34:29 PM »
norma, most yellow or white corn meals you buy in the baking ingredient section are coarse corn meals (quaker, betty crocker, hodgson mill, etc)

c0mpl3x,

Thanks for telling me that most yellow or white corn meals that can be bought in the baking ingreidents section are coarse corn meals.  :)

Norma

Offline Zeppi

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 79
Re: hybrid Reinhart
« Reply #74 on: July 01, 2011, 10:34:16 AM »
Brand new batch, and a new technique (at least for me)

So, here is a dough which was in the fridge 23 hours.  It was reballed 12 hours prior to baking.  It was opened up right out of the fridge (no warm up period).  What a difference, so easy to open and stretch because it wasn't TOOOOO stretchy.  This is a 12 ounce dough, stretched to 12 inches...easily could have been 13 inches but my peel wasn't big enough.  This is baked in my home oven, which I only had up to 530 degrees...and I think it was perfect...every inch was golden brown.  The pizza is crisp, but oh so tender!
John

John !!

When you say it was baked in your home oven ,were do you put it ,lower-middle or upper rack ?

Thank's !............Louis