Author Topic: JT's home oven NY pies  (Read 11555 times)

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Offline Jackie Tran

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JT's home oven NY pies
« on: May 01, 2011, 08:58:21 PM »
I'm not sure how long it's been since I last baked pizzas in the home oven.   Seeing all the great pies coming out of the home oven, I decided to give it a go as well.  

These were 70/30 HG/00 pies with 5% starter and 0.3% IDY, 71% HR, and cold fermented for 2 days.  

I was experimenting with hand kneading on this dough and ended up taking the dough to window pane before cold fermenting.  I know I'm not suppose to do that right?    ;D   Does anyone really buy into this though?  ???

Dough was bulked in the fridge overnight for around 6 hours.  Then divided and reballed.  Okay, so I know that I am also not to reball dough that has been cold fermented, but do I really believe in that?  Well I'm not sure.   :-D

1st one baked with a stone temp of around 500 without the top burner/broiler going.    

2nd one had a bit more bench flour stuck to the dough, baked with a stone temp of closer to 600 with the top burner going.  

Both pies were rimmed against the broiler to finish.  Interesting that I got 2 different looks based on the baking technique.  

They were both crusty (1st one more so) and a bit chewy.  More so than I normally go for, but still very good.  I think it could have been kneading to window pane or reballing.  Next time, I'll keep the same technique except do a really light reball after the cold fermentation.  Maybe just 2-3 turns of the dough at most.  

Comments and suggestions appreciated.  

Oh yeah, the 2nd pie is suppose to be a buffalo chicken pizza with scallions.  


Offline RobynB

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2011, 09:37:40 PM »
Well, you are miles ahead of me in knowledge and experience, so I'm sure you are right about all those "shouldn'ts" but I'm playing this weekend with Kenji's NY-Style dough in the home oven to distract me while I await the firm quote on the WFO which will hopefully come Monday.  Following his instructions, I did knead to windowpane before cold-fermenting, and I reballed after, and my 1 pie last night (2-day ferment) looks exactly like your second one which made me completely thrilled, for whatever that's worth.   I haven't had good luck in the oven previously, so I decided to trust in Kenji and follow his instructions precisely, and it's absolutely the best home-oven pizza I've made (or eaten).  I preheated to 550 convection with cast iron pizza pan resting on Fibrament stone on top oven rack, then switched to broil after loading the pie.  Tonight we're doing pie 2, same method, but a little more resting before final shape as last night the gluten was resisting. 

Offline Ronzo

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2011, 09:48:10 PM »
Chau, as a former NY who grew up on NY Pie... they look pretty good to me, buddy.
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2011, 09:58:22 PM »
Robyn, not sure about miles ahead but maybe just started a bit sooner.   I find that the time spent making pizza or the numbers of pizzas made mean very little.   It's the progress you make that really counts and this forum is great for giving folks the knowlege and boost needed to get a handle on the ingredients.  I'm glad that Kenji's formula and technique worked well for you.   I haven't seen it so I would be interested in checking it out if you don't mind posting it or a link to it.  

For me, it's mostly about  balance.  In general, if you are using a relative low hydration dough, it can create problems if you do knead to full gluten developement prior to cold fermenting and reball after cold fermentation.  But obviously that's not always the case as you have experienced.   I have found that a low hydrated dough mixed to full gluten development prior to cold fermentation behaves differently from a higher hydration dough.  Mainly that the higher hydration dough can tolerated the toughen effects of cold fermentation along with a gentle reball.  

I have also noticed that commercial yeast affects  the gluten development differently during cold fermentation as oppose to using a sourdough starter.  

As long as the pies taste great to you then that's what matters since you and family are eating them.  I'm not quite sure what's really wrong and right anymore. ;D

Cheers,
Chau

Offline RobynB

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2011, 10:12:05 PM »
Because I'm new, it won't let me post a link.  It's on Slice in Recipes:  "New York Style Pizza" posted by Kenji.  

I have a sourdough starter that I've been baking with for a couple years now, but I've been wary of attempting pizza dough with it until I have more consistently good results with more predictable doughs.  Maybe next week I'll try that!

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2011, 10:22:13 PM »
Chau, as a former NY who grew up on NY Pie... they look pretty good to me, buddy.


Thanks Ron, they were quite different in texture to my regular pizzas and they were quite good as well.  I have never had a true NY slice from NY so I can't compare the difference.

Robyn, was it this one and did you mix it using a food processor?

http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2010/10/new-york-style-pizza.html

Offline RobynB

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2011, 10:40:18 PM »
Yes, and yes.

Offline norma427

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2011, 11:21:13 PM »
Chau,

Your NY style pies look great!

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Ronzo

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2011, 11:42:36 PM »
Thanks Ron, they were quite different in texture to my regular pizzas and they were quite good as well.  I have never had a true NY slice from NY so I can't compare the difference.
Yeah, NY Pie is definitely NOT Neapolitan. At all. It's completely different. Like I said, though, yours looks great.
Fuggheddabowdit!

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Offline chickenparm

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2011, 01:36:23 AM »
Wow,Those look GREAT! There isn't anything you can't make these days,is there?!!
 :chef:

I hope to someday use a recipe more like yours.Would love to know how it tastes with a bit of starter,00 mixed in, and higher hydro.Looks salivating in the pics though!


 :)




-Bill


Offline dellavecchia

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2011, 07:24:20 AM »
I love the crumb Chau, and that you show theory does not always follow real world application. I have also been finding that you can develop gluten by hand with greater finesse than if you use a home mixer. And that allows for a wider window of success given any extreme.

John

Offline jever4321

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2011, 11:29:24 AM »
Awesome looking NY pie Chau. If I could consistently pull those beauties out of my oven I would be psyched. Your pictures are always appreciated. Keep up the good work.
-Jay

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2011, 08:10:47 PM »
Robyn, I think that both the food processor and the bread machine can easily make really great dough but is severely underused and underrated on this forum.  Just a tip, when using the FP, it is better to underknead than to overknead.   Just don't consider taking the oil out or kneading more than 30seconds when using that formula. 

On the 2nd pie, I was excited to see some of the leoparding emerge and look forward to seeing those in the WFO.

Thanks Norma, Ron, Bill, John, & Jay.  I appreciate the nice words.  I have some ideas on how to improve upon this recipe for next time.  I'll definitely add some oil to it and reball very gently after cold fermenation to see what I get.   I will also continue to load the the pie without the top burner going and not rim the pie.    This should give me a more blonde rim and a less crusty rim.  Mayb just a light crisp to it.   I think that would make the NY purist a bit happier.   I may even try to make a bigger pie next time and do a 14".  :-D

Bill, I don't know anything about pizza romana, true NP, and true NY but thanks for the encouragement guys. 

Chau

Offline chickenparm

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2011, 09:40:08 PM »
Chau,
I wanted to tell you the 2nd pie reminds me of DiFara's a little bit.Did you put any EVOO on top of the pies when it was done?
 :)
-Bill

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2011, 09:52:32 PM »
Chau,
I wanted to tell you the 2nd pie reminds me of DiFara's a little bit.Did you put any EVOO on top of the pies when it was done?
 :)

Bill, I can't remember if I put some on that pie after the bake but I think I did put some on before.  Depending on if there is enough EVOO on it after the bake, I will sometimes add abit more.    I also like to put some grated parmesan before and sometimes afterward as well just as Dom does.   I like Dom's style of using 2 different mozzarella and how he finishes the pie with grated parmesan, romano, or padano so I have adopted that technique towards a lot of my pies. 

It's funny you mentioned that the 2nd pie looks like a Di Fara b/c I had to cut these pies just as Dom does his using the pizza wheel to chop at the crust and got a very similar crust shattering sound.   B/c of the extended bake, the crust was stiff enough that it required the chopping motion to start the slicing. 

Chau

Offline chickenparm

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2011, 10:45:02 PM »
Man,those crunchy crusts are the best to me.I don't mind the chewy types at all,but theres something about the crunch that I love.Especially when dipping the rim into more sauce before finishing up.
 :pizza:

-Bill

Offline Ronzo

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2011, 11:06:27 PM »
Man,those crunchy crusts are the best to me.I don't mind the chewy types at all,but theres something about the crunch that I love.Especially when dipping the rim into more sauce before finishing up.
 :pizza:


call me crazy, but I dip my crusts in bleu cheese dressing. :)
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

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Offline chickenparm

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2011, 11:29:09 PM »
call me crazy, but I dip my crusts in bleu cheese dressing. :)

Thats a great dip too...I love dipping french fries in that stuff.I have not tried that on a crust yet.Sounds damn good.
:)

Ah,that Reminds me of my 20's,in NY,2-3 am at the Diner after a Friday or Saturday night of partying at the bars or clubs.Always got the munchies after drinking,always ordered some of that blue cheese with my fries!
 :-D

-Bill

Offline Ronzo

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2011, 11:53:06 PM »
Thats a great dip too...I love dipping french fries in that stuff.I have not tried that on a crust yet.Sounds damn good.
:)

Ah,that Reminds me of my 20's,in NY,2-3 am at the Diner after a Friday or Saturday night of partying at the bars or clubs.Always got the munchies after drinking,always ordered some of that blue cheese with my fries!
 :-D
It tastes fantastic.

My late night binges were usually buffalo wings at the diner. We'd try to piss the cook off by telling the waitress the wings weren't hot enough. It got to be a competition between us and the cooks to see who could win. :)
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2011, 02:18:00 AM »
Made a couple more NY style pies the other night.   Was pitting a 24h RT pie against a 24h CF pie.   For this particular bake, the CF pie turned out better.    I baked them slightly different so that kinda threw a wrench into the test, but the pies turned out pretty decent.  

50/50 HG/AP, 70% HR, IDY, 2% salt, 1% sugar, 2% EVOO.  Quick hand knead, rest, hand knead, & balled.  

first pie is the RT pie without top broiler running at the start and 2nd pie had the broiler running at the start.   First pie was also bake closer to 5min, while the 2nd one was more like 4min.   Stone temp was around 600F.

Here's the first pie (~24h RT)


 

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