Author Topic: JT's home oven NY pies  (Read 15410 times)

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2011, 01:29:54 AM »
Thank you Robyn, Ron, Jay, and Bill.  I appreciate it.  Just passing time until I can get the WFO up and running.  I'd like to spend some more time exploring the NY style in the home oven.  I have spent the majority of my time and energy focused on the hybrid style. 

Ron, that is way too nice a thing to say.  Honestly though, my pies may not even be close to the real deal at all.  I'll have to make a trip up to NY some day soon to check out what I've been missing out on.

Bill, I haven't found that balance of flours for the NY style yet.   I don't think that balance is too far from what I use now, except maybe tweak the hydration and oil a bit and add a small amount of sugar.  I really got interested in NY style recently b/c of your work and a few others here. 

With these pies, I decided to use 50% AP instead of 100% HG to soften the crunch on the rim just a bit. 
 
I hear ya about experimenting and the struggle between a pie in the hand versus 2 in the oven.  :-D  I have had so many failures that it's often just easier to stick with a proven recipe or method.   I think your use of BF or a similiar protein content is a good balance for a NY pie.  Depending on how much crunch you want on the rim I would increase or decrease the protein content along with hydration.  Also how open of a crumb do you want?   Also how much chew do you like?  I would use those answers to dictate your blend of flours and recipe.  I'm sure my idea of a NY pie is totally not correct but it seems to suit my taste.

Anyways, it's late and I'm babbling again.   
Chau


Offline Ronzo

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2011, 10:28:04 AM »
Ron, that is way too nice a thing to say.  Honestly though, my pies may not even be close to the real deal at all.  I'll have to make a trip up to NY some day soon to check out what I've been missing out on.

Take my word for it. ;)
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Online TXCraig1

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2011, 10:25:27 PM »
I'll have to make a trip up to NY some day soon to check out what I've been missing out on.

Or, rather they should go visit you...

CL
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2011, 04:40:12 PM »
I was already making an experimental loaf of bread with CY and recalled how last time the dough turned out really nice.  Nice enough for pizza and since I'll have to heat the oven up for the bread anyways, I thought why not make some extra dough for a home oven tester pizza.   Glad I did as this one ate pretty well.

HG flour, 75% hydration, 2.3% salt, 0.1% CY fermented for 12hrs.   Mixed in the Bosch for 2 minutes after a 30minute autolyse.  Bulked risen at room temps of 70F for about 8 hours and then divided and balled for another 6 hours at 75F.   The dough opened up wonderfully and baked up just as nice.   This one baked about 4 minutes with some rimming tricks, but would have benefitted from a higher stone temp and a slightly longer bake time. 




Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2011, 04:41:39 PM »
a few more crumb shots

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2011, 06:33:33 PM »
Chau, you are a bonafide mutha focker, period.  :)
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Offline chickenparm

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2011, 07:11:39 PM »
Man,Those rim crumb shots are incredible.The pie looks so friggen good!Fantastic work as always!
 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Can you tell a difference using the CY for the pizza over IDY or other yeast?If so,how would you best desribe it?

Im meaning to pick up some CY soon.I hope this time,the smell won't drive me to throw it out again.
 :-D
-Bill

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2011, 08:16:16 PM »
Thanks for the nice words Kelly and Bill.

Yes Bill, they all seem to have their uniqueness in the way they ferment and how they affect the final crumb.   I find commercial yeast to be the least flavorful but the most forgiving.  CY lies somewhere between commercial yeast and starters in that there is just a tiny bit more flavor, a soft crumb, but like starters, I've noticed a slightly drier crumb if overmixed or overfermented.

Concerning the crumb characteristics of CY, I started a thread on that in the yeast subforum.  CY tends to also produce the most amount of gas which should translate into the final crust rise.

If you can get pass the smell of CY, when I put my nose right up to it, there is a slight sweetness there.

I'm curious to see your results and assessment when you get some CY.

Chau
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 01:41:32 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2011, 10:50:04 PM »
Made a couple of 16" NY'ers for members Pizzablogger and Scott123 tonight.  These were done in the home oven.   First one was baked on a pan first and then transferred onto the stone after the crust set.   I wasn't in love with the crust, so I tried to load the 2nd one using my long handle home made 16" peel.  Not enough room to do a straight shot b/c of the long handle so had to load it from the side.  Needless to say, I got 3/4 of a pizza and 1/4 calzone. 


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2011, 10:51:19 PM »
More pics..

Offline chickenparm

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2011, 11:53:59 PM »
Chau! Super Nice Pies!Would love to have a few of those slices for myself!!
 8)


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Offline Ronzo

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2011, 12:26:49 AM »
they look fantastic, Chau

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Offline DrivenAgain

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2011, 12:21:09 PM »
Great looking pies as usual Chau, what dough formulation and how much did they weigh? Thanks
Jason

scott123

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2011, 05:12:06 PM »
Pizza Hut called.  They want their pan back  :-D

Seriously, though.  Thanks for the shout out.  The top of the first pie looks stunning. I'm guessing the pan was a workaround to get a larger pie on a smaller stone?  Can your oven handle a 16-17" stone?

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2011, 05:55:16 PM »
Thanks Guys!!  This was my first try at making 16" pies in the home oven and the results weren't bad.  Not a perfect 10/10, but that was b/c the crust and the baking was screwed up a bit.  I used a not active acidic starter and I should have known better.   Also the use of the pan had some pluses and minuses, but more minuses IMO.   All easy things to fix for the next couple of times.  Even I can't get things perfect on the first shot.   :-D

Jason, the dough formulation is something I've used before for my previous pies.  I don't recommend people use recipes as posted but rather only as guidelines.  It's easy to make up your very own recipe.
This one is 100% HG flour, 73% hydration (with starter), 10% starter, and 2.3% salt.  Each dough weigh 455gm with a TF of 0.08.


I'm guessing the pan was a workaround to get a larger pie on a smaller stone?  Can your oven handle a 16-17" stone?

Yes, if you look at the 2nd pic in reply #28, the round stone is 16" and the oblong one is 14" x 18" or approx. so.

I really wanted to make a 16" pie but my short handle wooden peel is only 14", thus the reason for the pan to set the crust first then slip off onto the stone.  I wasn't happy with this b/c crust did not brown enough on the bottom while in the pan. 

I then removed the round stone and tried to use my make shift 16" peel with the long handle (the one I made for the wfo) to load a 16" pie onto the oblong stone.  I forgot that it is 14" front to back so I ended up with 2" hanging off which required me to fold over and make a 1/4 calzone. 

Anyways I totally forgot that I have 2 - 16" pizza screens out in the garage, so next time I try this again I will build the pie on the screen and slip it off once the crust is set.  That should produce a much better result in the home oven.  Also next time I bake in the WFO, I will be doing 16" pies so that there is more pie for guests to eat between bakes since I'm only baking one at a time. 

Stay tuned...

Chau

scott123

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2011, 07:01:08 PM »
Ah, it was a peel issue, not a stone one. Got it.

Screens and pans, as I think you noticed from this last batch, are the kiss of death for good NY pizza undercrusts.  Anything between the stone and the crust is going to create a layer of insulation and extend the bake time, and, generally speaking, that's a bad thing.

A bigger peel would be nice, but if you don't have one handy, a lot of things will work in a pinch.  Cardboard, thin plywood, a flat cookie sheet, possibly even a well floured pizza pan.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2011, 07:18:18 PM »
scott123,

You are absolutely correct on the use of screens for the NY style. However, I believe that some of chickenparm's (Bill's) NY style pizzas that you have admired are based on using a combination of screen and stone. In my oven, if I want to make an 18" pizza, which is one of my all-time favorites, I have no choice but to use a combination of 18" screen and stone. The 18" screen with the dressed pizza on it actually buckles as I press the oven door against it (and I have to actually hold it there until the pizza sets up and I shift it onto the preheated stone), but that is what I have to do to get an 18" pizza. An 18" stone just wouldn't fit (I wouldn't be able to fully close the oven door). I have a 14" x 16" Cordierite stone but using the 18" screen with that can produce reasonable results but not the kind of results you would be looking for for an authentic NY style. No doubt, Chau will experience some of the challenges using his pizza screen to make large NY style pizzas.

Peter


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2011, 07:33:40 PM »
Peter you are right about the challenges of the home oven bake and large pies.  I was only interested in making a 16" pie after member pizzablogger asked to see me make a large pie and Scott mentioned the lack of members making big pies.

I may try the pizza screen just to learn something new and say that I did, but I'll likely reserve the 16" pizzas for the WFO.

Scott, I'll look around the house to see if I have some materials to make a short handle 16" Peel.  But I'm not quite confident about landing a 16" pie perfectly onto a 16" stone. :D
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 07:02:34 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline chickenparm

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2011, 08:14:29 PM »
Chau,

I wanted to add,I bought a Super(Beta) Peel,Im pretty sure you already know,it can launch 20 inch pies with ease and I have never had a bad launch with it.My original Super peel can barely do a 14 pie without it hanging off the front lip,so I use the larger peel.

So for my 14-15 inch pies launched onto the stone,I use my New Beta peel.Its huge but it does the job until I get a bigger stone and then can launch a max of 18 inch pies,oven limits.I cant wait until I can do that!
 8)

Any pie larger than a 15 inch,which is my stones limit, is screen baked,and they work decent,just not always give me the WOW factor launching straight onto the stone does.However,screens will eliminate launch mistakes caused by little room to work with.I still find my larger pies very enjoyable.The crust is a little softer with screens unless you cook past 6 minutes or more,at least in my case,past 6 minutes makes them a little crispier around the edges.
 :)








-Bill

scott123

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2011, 08:16:52 PM »
Edit: Bill beat me to it with his super peel reply, but here's my thoughts anyway.

You are absolutely correct on the use of screens for the NY style. However, I believe that some of chickenparm's (Bill's) NY style pizzas that you have admired are based on using a combination of screen and stone.

Actually, Peter, I believe Bill's paradigm (imo) shift from 7-8 minutes to what seems to be his presently preferred 3-5 minute bake (and my ensuing admiration :) ) was a result of removing the screen from his equation.

In his 3 minute thread:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14551.0.html

He refers to 'launching the pie onto the stone', but in his 5 minute thread

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14486.0.html

he actually has a photo of his pizza baking directly on the stone.

Sure, he uses the screen to 'dome' his pie, but that's not what I'm referring to here. My issue is with handicapping the conduction of heat from the stone to the crust by placing the screen in between.

Now, we all have to work with the equipment we have, and, with the equipment you're working with and what you're able to get out of it, you are truly a master, but if someone has the choice between using a screen and not using a screen (and is looking for the best pizza possible), my recommendation is always to lose the screen.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 08:20:18 PM by scott123 »

Offline Essen1

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2011, 08:34:17 PM »
scott123,

You are absolutely correct on the use of screens for the NY style. However, I believe that some of chickenparm's (Bill's) NY style pizzas that you have admired are based on using a combination of screen and stone. In my oven, if I want to make an 18" pizza, which is one of my all-time favorites, I have no choice but to use a combination of 18" screen and stone. The 18" screen with the dressed pizza on it actually buckles as I press the oven door against it (and I have to actually hold it there until the pizza sets up and I shift it onto the preheated stone), but that is what I have to do to get an 18" pizza. An 18" stone just wouldn't fit (I wouldn't be able to fully close the oven door). I have a 14" x 16" Cordierite stone but using the 18" screen with that can produce reasonable results but not the kind of results you would be looking for for an authentic NY style. No doubt, Chau will experience some of the challenges using his pizza screen to make large NY style pizzas.

Peter

Peter,

You have the same dilemma as myself when it comes to anything larger than 16" or in my case 17". If my stone were even a 1/4" bigger I wouldn't be able to close the oven door, either.

Small world.  ;D
Mike

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Offline chickenparm

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2011, 08:38:12 PM »
Scott,

Do you think Peter was referring to this 18 inch Pie I made a while back on this link?I used a screen and placed it ontop of the stone.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13648.0.html

Oh and btw Scott,you are right,I am loving the stone cooked pies over the screens.I can do shorter bake times and get superior results.Im loving those shorter bake times.
 :)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 08:40:41 PM by chickenparm »
-Bill

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2011, 08:40:44 PM »
Tran Man, I make 18" NY'ers. I start them on a screen on top of the stone, and then yank the screen as soon as the crust has set enough so it won't droop over my 16" stone. Nice lookin pies BTW!
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Offline chickenparm

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2011, 08:42:36 PM »
Tran Man, I make 18" NY'ers. I start them on a screen on top of the stone, and then yank the screen as soon as the crust has set enough so it won't droop over my 16" stone. Nice lookin pies BTW!

I tried that once with my 15 inch stone,it still drooped too much over the side and got severe burns on the rim edges.Maybe the 16 is more forgiving.
 :)
-Bill

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2011, 08:50:25 PM »
@chickenparm. I make a pretty thin crust so it set quickly.
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