Author Topic: JT's home oven NY pies  (Read 12534 times)

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scott123

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2011, 07:01:08 PM »
Ah, it was a peel issue, not a stone one. Got it.

Screens and pans, as I think you noticed from this last batch, are the kiss of death for good NY pizza undercrusts.  Anything between the stone and the crust is going to create a layer of insulation and extend the bake time, and, generally speaking, that's a bad thing.

A bigger peel would be nice, but if you don't have one handy, a lot of things will work in a pinch.  Cardboard, thin plywood, a flat cookie sheet, possibly even a well floured pizza pan.


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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2011, 07:18:18 PM »
scott123,

You are absolutely correct on the use of screens for the NY style. However, I believe that some of chickenparm's (Bill's) NY style pizzas that you have admired are based on using a combination of screen and stone. In my oven, if I want to make an 18" pizza, which is one of my all-time favorites, I have no choice but to use a combination of 18" screen and stone. The 18" screen with the dressed pizza on it actually buckles as I press the oven door against it (and I have to actually hold it there until the pizza sets up and I shift it onto the preheated stone), but that is what I have to do to get an 18" pizza. An 18" stone just wouldn't fit (I wouldn't be able to fully close the oven door). I have a 14" x 16" Cordierite stone but using the 18" screen with that can produce reasonable results but not the kind of results you would be looking for for an authentic NY style. No doubt, Chau will experience some of the challenges using his pizza screen to make large NY style pizzas.

Peter

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2011, 07:33:40 PM »
Peter you are right about the challenges of the home oven bake and large pies.  I was only interested in making a 16" pie after member pizzablogger asked to see me make a large pie and Scott mentioned the lack of members making big pies.

I may try the pizza screen just to learn something new and say that I did, but I'll likely reserve the 16" pizzas for the WFO.

Scott, I'll look around the house to see if I have some materials to make a short handle 16" Peel.  But I'm not quite confident about landing a 16" pie perfectly onto a 16" stone. :D
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 07:02:34 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline chickenparm

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2011, 08:14:29 PM »
Chau,

I wanted to add,I bought a Super(Beta) Peel,Im pretty sure you already know,it can launch 20 inch pies with ease and I have never had a bad launch with it.My original Super peel can barely do a 14 pie without it hanging off the front lip,so I use the larger peel.

So for my 14-15 inch pies launched onto the stone,I use my New Beta peel.Its huge but it does the job until I get a bigger stone and then can launch a max of 18 inch pies,oven limits.I cant wait until I can do that!
 8)

Any pie larger than a 15 inch,which is my stones limit, is screen baked,and they work decent,just not always give me the WOW factor launching straight onto the stone does.However,screens will eliminate launch mistakes caused by little room to work with.I still find my larger pies very enjoyable.The crust is a little softer with screens unless you cook past 6 minutes or more,at least in my case,past 6 minutes makes them a little crispier around the edges.
 :)








-Bill

scott123

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2011, 08:16:52 PM »
Edit: Bill beat me to it with his super peel reply, but here's my thoughts anyway.

You are absolutely correct on the use of screens for the NY style. However, I believe that some of chickenparm's (Bill's) NY style pizzas that you have admired are based on using a combination of screen and stone.

Actually, Peter, I believe Bill's paradigm (imo) shift from 7-8 minutes to what seems to be his presently preferred 3-5 minute bake (and my ensuing admiration :) ) was a result of removing the screen from his equation.

In his 3 minute thread:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14551.0.html

He refers to 'launching the pie onto the stone', but in his 5 minute thread

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14486.0.html

he actually has a photo of his pizza baking directly on the stone.

Sure, he uses the screen to 'dome' his pie, but that's not what I'm referring to here. My issue is with handicapping the conduction of heat from the stone to the crust by placing the screen in between.

Now, we all have to work with the equipment we have, and, with the equipment you're working with and what you're able to get out of it, you are truly a master, but if someone has the choice between using a screen and not using a screen (and is looking for the best pizza possible), my recommendation is always to lose the screen.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 08:20:18 PM by scott123 »

Offline Essen1

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2011, 08:34:17 PM »
scott123,

You are absolutely correct on the use of screens for the NY style. However, I believe that some of chickenparm's (Bill's) NY style pizzas that you have admired are based on using a combination of screen and stone. In my oven, if I want to make an 18" pizza, which is one of my all-time favorites, I have no choice but to use a combination of 18" screen and stone. The 18" screen with the dressed pizza on it actually buckles as I press the oven door against it (and I have to actually hold it there until the pizza sets up and I shift it onto the preheated stone), but that is what I have to do to get an 18" pizza. An 18" stone just wouldn't fit (I wouldn't be able to fully close the oven door). I have a 14" x 16" Cordierite stone but using the 18" screen with that can produce reasonable results but not the kind of results you would be looking for for an authentic NY style. No doubt, Chau will experience some of the challenges using his pizza screen to make large NY style pizzas.

Peter

Peter,

You have the same dilemma as myself when it comes to anything larger than 16" or in my case 17". If my stone were even a 1/4" bigger I wouldn't be able to close the oven door, either.

Small world.  ;D
Mike

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Offline chickenparm

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2011, 08:38:12 PM »
Scott,

Do you think Peter was referring to this 18 inch Pie I made a while back on this link?I used a screen and placed it ontop of the stone.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13648.0.html

Oh and btw Scott,you are right,I am loving the stone cooked pies over the screens.I can do shorter bake times and get superior results.Im loving those shorter bake times.
 :)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 08:40:41 PM by chickenparm »
-Bill

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2011, 08:40:44 PM »
Tran Man, I make 18" NY'ers. I start them on a screen on top of the stone, and then yank the screen as soon as the crust has set enough so it won't droop over my 16" stone. Nice lookin pies BTW!
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Offline chickenparm

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2011, 08:42:36 PM »
Tran Man, I make 18" NY'ers. I start them on a screen on top of the stone, and then yank the screen as soon as the crust has set enough so it won't droop over my 16" stone. Nice lookin pies BTW!

I tried that once with my 15 inch stone,it still drooped too much over the side and got severe burns on the rim edges.Maybe the 16 is more forgiving.
 :)
-Bill

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2011, 08:50:25 PM »
@chickenparm. I make a pretty thin crust so it set quickly.
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #50 on: July 23, 2011, 09:27:57 PM »
Thanks Bill and Dmcavanagh.  My 14" wooden Peel is a superpeel and I forgot that I bought the extension kit for 16" pies long ago but have never used it.  Thank you for the reminder, I will dig it out now instead of using the screen.

update: I found the extension kit sold by super peel. It turns their ordinary super peel into a 16" super peel or at least it is suppose to.  
http://www.superpeel.com/images/Exp-Kit-on-Butternut-2-lg.jpg

Once attached, this new peel measures 20" side to side but only 14" front to back.  So....how am I suppose to load a 16" round when it's only 14" front to back?  ???

Bill it sounds like you have a regular super peel and a larger one.  Is that correct or are you using the extension kit?

Chau
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 07:08:26 AM by Jackie Tran »

scott123

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2011, 09:40:09 PM »
Oh and btw Scott,you are right,I am loving the stone cooked pies over the screens.I can do shorter bake times and get superior results.Im loving those shorter bake times.
 :)

Bill, your experience is fairly typical.  Anyone that I've ever known who's gone from 7+ minute bakes to 4-5 has never gone back permanently to 7+.  On the other hand, I know lots of folks that go from 4 to <2, only to make the decision to go back to 4. Neapolitan is just not for everyone, while 4 minute NY- that's pretty much universal. Imho, of course  ;D

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2011, 10:11:21 PM »
scott123,

I stand corrected. I was, in fact, thinking of the 18" pizza that Bill made.

Peter

Offline chickenparm

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2011, 12:14:24 AM »
Thanks Bill and Dmcavanagh.  My 14" wooden Peel is a superpeel and I forgot that I bought the extension kit for 16" pies long ago but have never used it.  Thank you for the reminder, I will dig it out now instead of using the screen.

update: I found the extension kit sold by super peel. It turns their ordinary super peel into a 16" super peel or at least it suppose to.  
http://www.superpeel.com/images/Exp-Kit-on-Butternut-2-lg.jpg

Once attached, this new peel measures 20" side to side but only 14" front to back.  So....how am I suppose to load a 16" round when it's only 14" front to back?  ???

Bill it sounds like you have a regular super peel and a larger one.  Is that correct or are you using the extension kit?

Chau

Chau,

I have 2 super peels,the original one and a much larger Super Peel called the Beta Peel.I do not have the extension kit for the original one.

It was called Beta at the time because it was experimental.I have not checked the website recently to see if he is selling the larger Beta Super Peels as of yet.I believe they intended to after production came together.

Here are some pictures to show you the 2 peels.The original super peel sits on top.The Beta is on the bottom.The Beta is HUGE and I love it!

8)




« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 12:16:18 AM by chickenparm »
-Bill

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2011, 12:29:08 AM »
Thanks Bill, I already have some ideas on how to mod the extension kit to allow it to load 16" rounds.  I just need to make a new cardboard extension piece.  It should be an easy fix. 

Chau

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2011, 08:57:29 AM »
Oh, that first pie looks very nice!

Since you made the pizza for Scott and I, I'm assuming some frozen slices will be in the mail soon? ;D

That's a damn fine first go at the larger size in your oven.
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Offline pizzablogger

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2011, 09:16:32 AM »
Chau, would be interested in you trying a Totonno's style pie.

Ditch the shredded mozzarella. Add pieces of fresh mootza-rell like you did on that first pie you made, but place them first on the skin, add sauce, hit it with some pecorino-romano and a little drizzle of extra virgin.

Peep the video starting at 1:40 for a step by step of how it is made:



interesting is that the second pie taken out of the oven of the video appears to be burnt in places on the rim.

Totonno's makes simple and delicious pizzas. The pecorino can be a tad too heavy on some days, but I really like Totonno's. I wish "everyday" pizza was made much more like this than the bull dung 90% of retail joints are selling. Pah!

Chau, I'm willing to bet that your crust would be better than Totonno's, which can be a little dense in the crumb.

Give it a whirl one day if you think about it.

Here's a snap I took of our pie during my last visit to Totonno's. Half of the group I took with me were somewhat pizza newbies and could not fathom ordering just a plain pizza, so half is sausage. Amateurs  :-D
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 09:22:31 AM by pizzablogger »
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2011, 06:22:42 PM »
That pie looks really good to me Kelly.  Thanks for the youtube link.  The Totonn's style should be not be that hard to duplicate.  I was going to ask you if the sauce was spiced or not but that is covered in the video.  

I'm thinking a good thin NY style crust, fresh mootz, fresh sauce, a good helping of pecorino (or parm should be fine), EVOO, 4-5 minute bake, and viola!

I think I would get a better result in the WFO or even do smaller versions in the LBE, but if I don't have an excuse to fire up soon, I'll definitely do the home oven version next.   Thanks for the inspiration.

Chau
« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 09:32:12 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #58 on: September 13, 2011, 10:46:28 PM »
I was baking in the LBE the other day and liked the dough, so I thought I would toss one in the home oven just to see what I would get.   This one is the same dough except it was made with starter and not CY.  Here's what I got...

Here are his LBE brothers...reply 140.  These were made with CY.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13036.140.html

Offline chickenparm

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Re: JT's home oven NY pies
« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2011, 11:36:20 PM »
That pizza is awesome.I would devour it if I had the chance!
 :-D

What cheese type did you use for this one in the home oven?

Thanks!
 :)

-Bill



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