Author Topic: Artisan bread making forum  (Read 13060 times)

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Offline PizzaSuperFreak

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Artisan bread making forum
« on: May 18, 2005, 12:35:17 PM »
does anybody know of any artisan bread making forums - similar to this one, but for bread?

i'm looking for help perfecting mine for panini uses.

thanks!


Offline apizza

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2005, 09:08:15 PM »
Here's a couple to start with. I'm sure there are others.
www.bakingcircle.com   Site from King Arthur flour
www.thefreshloaf.com 
Take a look.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2005, 09:14:23 PM by apizza »

Offline scott r

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2005, 04:38:34 AM »
I had two dough balls left over from a batch of dough I made last night.  I remember Marco saying the dough would make amazing dinner rolls, so I figured I would give it a try.  Since it was a room temp dough with a preferment, I knew I couldn't throw it in the fridge for use tomorrow or it would be too sour (thanks peter). This dough was so wet I had to use a loaf pan to keep a form, so it ended up being bread.  I don't know much about bread baking, but I let the dough rise in the pan for a while, and stuck it in a cold start oven set at 500 degrees.  This bread turned out to be really amazing.  I can't see any reason to buy from the store any more! I want to try a pumpernickel next, so I think I will be heading over there with you guys.

Offline davtrent

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2005, 12:18:41 PM »
PizzaSuperFreak,


The Bread Baker's List (www.bread-bakers.com) is a great forum for finding and exchanging baking information. 
 
You may also wish to visit The Bread Baker's Guild of America (www.bbga.org) which has an extensive section of links that you may find helpful.

Keep an eye out for classes offered in your local area.  I've just enrolled in a four week Artisan Bread Making program at The Weaver Street Bakery.  This class was being offered through the ArtSchool at the ArtsCenter (www.artscenterlive.org) in Carrboro, NC and will focus on the use of levains and other preferments, hand kneading & machine mixing, shaping, scoring, and baking.  I'm looking forward to using their professional ovens, and may slip in a few pizza crusts in addition to the rustic hearth breads we'll be making!

Regards,

David 

Offline Steve

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2005, 12:20:59 PM »
I also own the domain "doughmaking.com" ... although there is nothing there at the momemt, I can set up a site similar to this one with that theme. Is there any interest in such a site and/or forum?

Steve
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Offline PizzaSuperFreak

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2005, 01:18:51 PM »
steve, there is to me. i think it could be quite helpful to many folks out there who are trying to unlock the mystery of artisan bread making.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2005, 02:52:37 PM »
Dave,

I hope you will keep pizza dough in mind as you take your course--to be able to tell us whether there are techniques that apply to artisan bread making that could be incorporated into and be beneficial to our pizza doughs. As you know, the concept of autolyse, which was developed in the context of bread making, has been beneficial to several of our members in their dough making.

Peter


Offline Randy

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2005, 04:03:49 PM »

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2005, 04:11:14 PM »
I also own the domain "doughmaking.com" ... although there is nothing there at the momemt, I can set up a site similar to this one with that theme. Is there any interest in such a site and/or forum?

Steve,

I would be interested. You might also consider sections here on your Pizza forum covering "starters/preferments" and "breadmaking" if there isn't enough traffic to justify a whole new site. Usually on the days I'm not baking pizzas, I'm baking breads  :) :) :)

Bill/SFNM

Offline pyegal

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2005, 09:08:35 PM »
Steve,
I would be interested in a forum on artisans bread making. I've been making breads longer than I've been making pizza, but there is always something new to learn.

Dave,
Wish I could take the class this time, but other plans have been made. I live in Burlington and come to Carrboro/Chapel Hill very often. It is only a half hour drive for me on 54.

Teresa


Offline PizzaSuperFreak

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2005, 10:12:24 PM »
A couple of differences between breads and pizza dough that i've noticed is, for one, the preferred useage of a starter, pretty much at all times. Also, to get a very airy crumb (the inside part) it's necessary to bake the bread at the end of a rise. So, after it doubles in size and you punch it down, you typically shape it however you want (perhaps even in a bread pan) and bake it when it doubles in size again.

Just some observations.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2005, 10:21:25 PM »
Ok breadmakers, how do I make an italian or french bread?

Geez, what a question. What do you mean by "Italian" and "French"? Each of those country has many regions and each region has many styles of breads.

My favorite bread to make is French-style baguettes. In many ways, it is similar to the way I make pizza dough: flour, natural starter, yeast, water, salt - kneaded to the correct stage (window-pane in the case of bread) and a slow fermentation in the refrigerator. The big difference and perhaps most important difference: whereas I go for an extremely high hydration in pizza dough, I go for the exact opposite in baguettes, adding just enough water for the dough to come together. Of course, the baguettes are baked at a lower temperature. The floor of my brick oven is 700+ for pizzas; it is more like 500 for baguettes. Often, after baking pizzas I will bake baguettes later in the day after the oven has cooled some.

I prefer to eat baguettes about an hour after they come out of the oven.

Bill/SFNM

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2005, 11:27:55 PM »
This is my basic recipe. Shaping the baguette is very important and, once mastered, makes a big difference. I can try to explain that if you like.

  500            grams  Unbleached bread flour
  15             grams  Salt
  1              Gram  instant yeast
     1/2           Cup  Sour Starter -- fed and ripened
  270            Grams  water
                        cornmeal -- for baking sheet

Place flour, salt, yeast, starter and water in mixer bowl and mix until just combined
Allow to rest for 5 minutes
Knead until window pane stage
Remove the dough from the mixer bowl and place in a large ungreased bowl.
Cover with plastic wrap.
Allow dough to ferment for 1 hour at room temperature (70F-72F).
Place in refrigerator for 3-4 days
Flour a board.
Take dough out of bowl and cut into 3 pieces.
Cover with plastic
Allow to rest 15-20 minutes.
Form into 3 baguettes.
Gently place in floured couche seam-side UP.
Allow to proof for 1 1/2 to 2 hours, until the dough is soft and has visibly doubled in bulk.
Dust a peel with corn meal.
Transfer the bread to the peel, seam-side down
Sprinkle lightly with flour.
Slash tops several times diagonally (3  slashes almost parallel to loaf , 1/3 length of loaf, 1/4 inch apart).
Slide the loafs onto the oven floor or baking stone.
Spritz water into oven
Bake for 2 minutes.
Spritz again with water
Continue baking until the crust is golden brown. Bottom of loaves should sound hollow when tapped.
Remove from oven and place on a wire rack to cool. You should hear a crackling sound as the hot crust hit the cooler air.

The way I like it, the crumb should have a yellow cast. There should be small regular holes and the inside of each hole should be shiny and elastic when pulled apart. The crust have little blisters and be crackly with a deep flavor. When you bite into it, your eyes should roll back up into the sockets and you shouldn't be able to speak coherently, moaning will be heard.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2005, 11:29:58 PM by Bill/SFNM »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2005, 12:16:51 AM »
Sante Fe Bill,

If you don't mind, I would like to have you explain your baguette shaping technique. Also, what kind of couche are you using (e.g., canvas, flax fiber, linen, etc.) and where did you get yours? And how do you get the baguettes off of the couche onto the peel? Finally, do you use a lame to slash the loaves?

Thanks.

Peter

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2005, 08:59:04 AM »
Peter,

When forming the baguettes, I try to handle  them as little as possible. After cutting the fermented dough in thirds, each piece is in the shape of a triangle. I fold in each corner so that it is as close to a rectangle as possible. The top edge is then folded down about 2/3 over toward the bottom and sealed. The bottom is folded 2/3 over toward the top and sealed. The top and bottom are now folded together and -VERY IMPORTANT- a seam is formed creating as much surface tension as possible on the outside of the baguette. You should now have a small cylinder which can be gently rolled by hand to shape. Do not stretch to shape, only gently roll with the palms. Allow to rest for a minute or so if it doesn't respond to gentle rolling. Sorry if I have not described it well. Next time I do this, I will take some photos if you like.

Here is a picture of a single baguette that I have proofing for lunch today. Last batch of dough I made, I froze a few baguettes right after shaping. I took one out of the freezer last night and let it thaw overnight in the refrigerator. You will notice I use floured canvas "hammocks" (available from KA) for proofing (I can fit 4 baguettes in this frame), but I also have a whole arsenal of canvas sheets, baskets, etc. I prefer the hammock because it is easy to roll the proofed loaf onto the peel.

For slashing, you can see in the picture (sorry about the quality - I really suck at photography) I have a lame (from KA), a scalpel, and a very sharp serrated knife. I grab whichever is handy - they all do the job.

(http://www.cordless.com/images/bread.jpg)

I'll try to post a photo after baking.

Bill/SFNM

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2005, 11:04:24 AM »
Mr. Cheesy,

I have never tried KASL. For a while I used KA All Purpose, but am using KA Bread Flour which gives me the texture I like. I think the biggest factor in the final product is the starter which I have been feeding faithfully for about 10 years.

I usually bake this in my wood burning brick oven with a deck temp of about 500F for about 12-15 minutes. When I use a baking stone in the kitchen oven, I bake at 450F directly on the stone: spritz/2 minutes/spritz/18 minutes. If I want an extra crispy crust, I turn on the convection fan a few minutes before it is done.

Bill/SFNM
« Last Edit: May 24, 2005, 11:12:39 AM by Bill/SFNM »

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2005, 01:53:02 PM »
Here is a photo of the bread. Not happy at all with the close-up photos my camera takes. I think I need to buy a macro lens. Naw, I'd rather spend the money on bread/pizza toys and ingredients.  ;D

(http://www.cordless.com/images/bread1.jpg)

If you can make it out, I am pulling apart a slice to show how the structure, which is quite tender, is also elastic and yellowish.

(http://www.cordless.com/images/bread2.jpg)

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2005, 02:23:34 PM »
Sante Fe Bill,

Thank you very much for posting on the technique you use to make your baguettes and the latest results. The baguette looks out of this world.

Peter


Offline apizza

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2005, 08:07:55 PM »
Well PizzaSuperFreak it appears you have started something here. I make more bread than pizza but enjoy them both. I'm here to learn about pizza and have not been dissappointed.
It seems if you are going to crank up the oven for pizza you should have a bread ready to go in as the oven goes down. My favorite is ciabatta. Very wet dough with an overnight starter. It kind of sits there like a puddle until you slide it into the oven. This is not a high loaf. Low, with a great flavor. You can't wait to find the great things to go with it. The bread is cheap but the wines and cheeses add up. Worth every penny.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Artisan bread making forum
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2005, 08:40:58 PM »
In Italian, the word "ciabatta" means slipper, so, yes, the dough will spread out a lot and look like a slipper. Ciabatta dough uses a very high hydration, greater than 70%, to get the big, irregular shaped holes for which ciabatta is noted. The biggest mistake that people make when they make ciabatta dough is that they can't resist adding flour because the dough is literally so wet that you almost can't handle it by hand. You have to use a bench scraper or something like that. To get a better idea of what I am talking about, you may want to take a look at the ciabatta section of this King Arthur piece: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/7512947c75dd4ce76f3a611041c1fe40/miscdocs/baguette-ciabatta.pdf. The KA piece also does a pretty good job of describing how to make baguettes also.

Peter

EDIT (3/15/13): For the Wayback Machine link to the King Arthur article on ciabatta, see http://web.archive.org/web/20120513194542/http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/7512947c75dd4ce76f3a611041c1fe40/miscdocs/baguette-ciabatta.pdf
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 06:28:29 PM by Pete-zza »