Author Topic: Pampered Chef Pizza stone split in half  (Read 3084 times)

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Offline zemanjd

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Pampered Chef Pizza stone split in half
« on: May 12, 2011, 08:53:30 AM »
Any suggestions for a replacement besides steel?

Offline scott123

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Re: Pampered Chef Pizza stone split in half
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2011, 12:45:58 PM »
What's wrong with steel? ;D

Is this for an oven or for a grill? For an oven, you can't beat steel.  Soapstone is almost as good, but, for most people, it's a lot more expensive.  Living in northern NJ, you have access to cheap soapstone (teixeira), but, at $10 sq/ft, it'll still cost you more than steel.

If you're looking for a stone for a high temp grill, then a cordierite kiln shelf is probably your best bet.

Offline zemanjd

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Re: Pampered Chef Pizza stone split in half
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2011, 12:23:38 PM »
Haha,  let me just say I don't know whats necessarily "wrong" with steel, although my oven and is not equipped to handle a steel cooking surface...I will say that from what I have been reading on the forum, Scott, you are quite the steel proponent. I think its very funny.  I will look into Soapstone -- thanks for the tip.  I feel like I was just starting to get the hang of using my stone, and then it broke. 

I have to change my profile, I actually live in Southern CT.  My fav. pizza place was in Jersey near where my GF lives, maybe thats why you thought northern NJ?

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Pampered Chef Pizza stone split in half
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2011, 03:02:00 PM »
I will say that from what I have been reading on the forum, Scott, you are quite the steel proponent. I think its very funny. 

He's long on steel futures.  :)

I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Tman1

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Re: Pampered Chef Pizza stone split in half
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2011, 06:15:18 PM »
My Pampered Chef stone broke the first time I used it.. lucky I got it at a thrift store for a measly $5!

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Pampered Chef Pizza stone split in half
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2011, 09:14:34 PM »
I have just started working with steel plate, though I think it has a lot of promise.  As for stone,  corderite is usually recommended since it can handle very high temps, and mine gets hot within 15 to 20 minutes.  I ordered a 5/8 thick stone from Axner http://www.axner.com/cordierite-kiln-shelves.aspx  The overall cost with shipping was pretty reasonable for a really nice stone, though you may want to buy 2 since the shipping ends up being a substantial portion of the total cost.

Offline jgestner

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Re: Pampered Chef Pizza stone split in half
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2011, 10:16:03 PM »
Hi Gang
As a retired Art Teacher I can tell that some of you are trying to push the ceramic stones beyond their limits by heating them too high/too fast. Can you spell THERMAL SHOCK? If you would just try to ramp up your burners at a slightly slower rate you might never see a crack.

The Art Teacher thing comes into play with running ceramic kilns. We had to slowly ramp up the temps in our kilns mostly to ease the greenware pottery we were trying to fire. But even a cold start with nothing in it could break kiln shelves and other kiln wall components if not done slowly.

I am truly a neophyte here in the pizza and oven forums I have joined, but I have seen the surprise in some here at cracked pizza stones way too often to not respond on the little I know of near refractory temp related cooking.

John
Merrill, WI
« Last Edit: May 14, 2011, 09:42:40 AM by jgestner »

Offline scott123

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Re: Pampered Chef Pizza stone split in half
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2011, 03:33:41 PM »
Haha,  let me just say I don't know whats necessarily "wrong" with steel, although my oven and is not equipped to handle a steel cooking surface...I will say that from what I have been reading on the forum, Scott, you are quite the steel proponent. I think its very funny.  I will look into Soapstone -- thanks for the tip.  I feel like I was just starting to get the hang of using my stone, and then it broke.  

I have to change my profile, I actually live in Southern CT.  My fav. pizza place was in Jersey near where my GF lives, maybe thats why you thought northern NJ?


I'm curious, in what way is your oven 'not equipped to handle a steel cooking surface?' If the shelf can support a pampered chef stone, it should be able to support a comparably sized steel plate.

I saw Livingston in your profile and jumped the gun.  If you're in CT, unless you want to pick up soapstone when you're visiting your GF, then it will most likely be very expensive for you. Remnants are $10/sq foot in Hackensack, but that's only because they're importing the stone directly from Brazil.  Everywhere else, it's going to be at least triple that. A $25 stone at Teixeira will cost a minimum of $80 elsewhere.  Considering you can buy steel plate for around $20 and it will slightly outperform soapstone, it's, imo, a no brainer.

As a retired Art Teacher I can tell that some of you are trying to push the ceramic stones beyond their limits by heating them too high/too fast. Can you spell THERMAL SHOCK? If you would just try to ramp up your burners at a slightly slower rate you might never see a crack.


Cordierite can be manufactured to tolerate a tremendous amount of thermal shock.

FibraMent vs. Cordierite (Engineering Data)

Maryland Ceramic & Steatite Company Inc. is quoted as saying, "corderite has excellent thermal shock resistance, withstanding red heat to ice water quench, and then returned to red heat. Our high fire corderite body will withstand a temperature rise from 70° to 1800° in 80 seconds, followed by an immediate room-temperature air quench."


Unfortunately, cordierite isn't always manufactured the same way.  It can be dry pressed or extruded.  As an art teacher I'm sure you're aware of the disc shaped molecular structure of clay, and, when the discs are out of alignment, such as in slipware, the end product is exceptionally weak.  Air pockets (either in the wet clay or created when water evaporates) are also the kiss of death for strong ceramics.  Extrusion allows for some molecular alignment/air removal, but it pales in comparison to the kind of molecular alignment/air removal/structural strength one finds in dry pressed cordierite. Structural strength is directly proportional to resistance to thermal shock, so, the sturdier the cordierite, the better it stands up to extreme changes in heat.

The hard part is determining whether or not the stone is dry pressed (strong) or extruded (weaker). Dry pressing involves thousands of pounds of pressure, so the equipment is more expensive. Since most baking stones/kiln shelves are made in China, and, since Chinese manufacturers tend to gravitate towards less expensive manufacturing approaches I think it's safe to assume that a large number of the commercial cordierite baking stones are extruded. At least that's my gut feeling.

Dry pressed cordierite, in theory, should be considerably denser than extruded, so it might be possible to look at the density of retail stones and determine if they're pressed, but I haven't had a chance to test this.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2011, 03:38:14 PM by scott123 »

Offline zemanjd

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Re: Pampered Chef Pizza stone split in half
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2011, 04:48:52 PM »
I'm curious, in what way is your oven 'not equipped to handle a steel cooking surface?' If the shelf can support a pampered chef stone, it should be able to support a comparably sized steel plate.

Well, honestly, I'm not exactly sure of the structural integrity of the racks with a substantial amount weight on it.  And I am assuming that the weight of a steel plate would be greater than that of a stone plate, but I am a novice and I don't really know.   Are you implying that the stone and the steel would be comparable in weight? If so, then I will certainly give it some serious thought. 

Offline scott123

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Re: Pampered Chef Pizza stone split in half
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2011, 03:51:11 AM »
For some reason, I thought that pampered chef stones were relatively thick, but I did some research and the ones I'm finding are all on the thin side, which would make them pretty light. Steel will be heavier, but it shouldn't be too much for your oven to handle. No respectable American oven manufacturer would make an oven that couldn't support a 24 lb. turkey plus another 10 lbs. of veggies, stuffing and roasting pan. A 16" x 16" x 1/2" steel plate is 36 lb.

If you feel like you're working with especially flimsy shelves, you can always make a shelf yourself out of steel bars (see below).

You may not get sub 2 minute Neapolitan bake times with 1/2" steel, but if you want a respectable neo-ny/coal or NY style pie, you're going to want a lot more thermal mass (read: weight) than any retail stone, so, no matter what stone you go with, you're going to want something pretty hefty (unless you're comfortable with oven hacks).

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Pampered Chef Pizza stone split in half
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2011, 04:24:21 AM »
the possibility of using two stones with a sandwich later of refractory cement is a possiblity
pizza, it makes our world go round.

Offline Botch

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Re: Pampered Chef Pizza stone split in half
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2011, 10:51:46 PM »
I'm a new (2 months) owner of a Big Green Egg ceramic charcoal cooker, and the almost-universal consensus on that forum is that most ceramic stones work fine in the Egg (which can go +750 F) with the exception of the Pampered Chef!; the PC's cracked for almost everyone.
And, what's this talk of steel?  While it won't crack, it also won't absorb moisture like a stone will, and won't give you a very good crust... 
I cook with wine.  Sometimes I even add it to the food.  - W. C. Fields

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Pampered Chef Pizza stone split in half
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2011, 11:08:21 PM »
I'm a new (2 months) owner of a Big Green Egg ceramic charcoal cooker, and the almost-universal consensus on that forum is that most ceramic stones work fine in the Egg (which can go +750 F) with the exception of the Pampered Chef!; the PC's cracked for almost everyone.
And, what's this talk of steel?  While it won't crack, it also won't absorb moisture like a stone will, and won't give you a very good crust... 

Botch,
I have never tried a steel plate.I had planned on trying it someday.From what you wrote,Im gathering you tried it and it did not work?
If so,what did your experiments show you and any pics of the crust not coming out right?
Thanks.
 :)
-Bill

Offline scott123

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Re: Pampered Chef Pizza stone split in half
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2011, 11:45:49 PM »
Bill, Botch hasn't done any experiments with steel plate or he'd be aware that pizza stone moisture absorption claims are a myth. First of all, the most common ceramic pizza stone, cordierite, absorbs almost no moisture.  Secondly, in order for moisture to be absorbed, it has to stay in a liquid phase. With the short baking times of great pizza, water turns to steam almost immediately.

Now, if someone wanted to waste their money on something porous like fibrament and bake the pizza in a typical unmodded home oven for 8+ minutes, then, perhaps, the absorption might create a crispier crust, but, considering the amazing oven spring you're achieving with faster bakes, I don't think you'd ever want to take the 8+ minute route.

Offline lilbuddypizza

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Re: Pampered Chef Pizza stone split in half
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2011, 11:59:29 PM »
What's wrong with steel? ;D

Is this for an oven or for a grill? For an oven, you can't beat steel.  Soapstone is almost as good, but, for most people, it's a lot more expensive.  Living in northern NJ, you have access to cheap soapstone (teixeira), but, at $10 sq/ft, it'll still cost you more than steel.

If you're looking for a stone for a high temp grill, then a cordierite kiln shelf is probably your best bet.

Soapstone?? That's new to me. My only experience with it has been in a non-cooking manner and it would seem to be WAYYYY to fragile to use, but what do I know?  lol

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Pampered Chef Pizza stone split in half
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2011, 12:39:41 AM »
Bill, Botch hasn't done any experiments with steel plate or he'd be aware that pizza stone moisture absorption claims are a myth. First of all, the most common ceramic pizza stone, cordierite, absorbs almost no moisture.  Secondly, in order for moisture to be absorbed, it has to stay in a liquid phase. With the short baking times of great pizza, water turns to steam almost immediately.

Now, if someone wanted to waste their money on something porous like fibrament and bake the pizza in a typical unmodded home oven for 8+ minutes, then, perhaps, the absorption might create a crispier crust, but, considering the amazing oven spring you're achieving with faster bakes, I don't think you'd ever want to take the 8+ minute route.

Thanks Scott.That was pretty much answers what my questions was about.I would hate to have a surface that actually absorbed water.Thats a job for a sponge.I was being nice when I posted,I did not want to insult anyone,but I had to ask to see some claims,if they are going to tell people it does not work.



-Bill

Offline scott123

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Re: Pampered Chef Pizza stone split in half
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2011, 02:47:57 AM »
Sure thing, Bill.

Lilbuddypizza,

The History of Soapstone

Quote
Cooking with Soapstone

During the Ming Dynasty, soapstone was carved into teapots, plates and cooking utensils. In Scandinavia, many traditional griddles are made from soapstone rather than cast iron. The village of Francestown, New Hampshire, was once a bustling hub of activity that produced some of the finest soapstone cooking utensils and soapstone woodstoves available. Soapstone was first quarried in Francestown in the early 1800s. However, the quarry closed in 1912 after blasting during the process of quarrying burned two neighboring farms to the ground.




 



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