Author Topic: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough  (Read 28452 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2011, 08:29:54 PM »
Peter,

I wanted to ask you a question about the Stretch-Out product.  I was just going to make a “goody bag” tonight, to then just add water at market, to make the test Lehmann dough with the Stretch-Out product.  I don’t know why I thought the Stretch-Out was a powder, but just a little while ago, I opened the cardboard box and inside there is a big blue plastic bag.  The Stretch-Out product is almost like ice cream when scooping it out. It is also grainy. I tasted the Stretch-Out and it is really salty and leaves a greasy feeling in my mouth.  I now just wonder if I should measure out the Stretch-Out and put it in a separate container, until I add the water. and the other ingredients?  Do you think that would be the best way to proceed, or do you think it would be okay to make a “goody bag” with the Stretch-Out product included tonight?  I decided to use KABF since Edna said she didn't know about high-gluten flour, using the Stretch-Out product.

Picture of Stretch-Out product

Norma
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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2011, 09:04:30 PM »
Norma,

I am not sure it will make a difference but I think I would personally keep the Stretch-Out product in a separate container and decide when to incorporate it into the Lehmann dough formulation (without salt) when you are at market. As you know, Tom Lehmann usually advocates adding oil after the flour and other ingredients have been mixed so as not to interfere with the hydration of the flour. That may also apply to a shortening-based product such as the Stretch-Out, even though we know that the Bisquick products with partially hydrogenated oils have all of the ingredients combined togther in the premix. However, the pizza dough recipe that came with the Stretch-Out product treats the Stretch-Out product just like another dough ingredient to be added to the dough. The accompanying instructions say to just mix everything in the mixer bowl.

Peter

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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2011, 09:16:28 PM »
Peter,

Thanks for your advise on what you would do with the Stretch-Out product.  I am going to keep it in a separate container until I mix it into the Lehmann dough.

This is the formula I am using.

Norma
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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2011, 09:30:09 PM »
Norma,

For the record, you used the Baker's Non-Fat Dry Milk field in the expanded dough calculating tool for the Stretch-Out product and you did not convert the weights to volume measurements. Is that correct, or did you actually do a weight-to-volume conversion (using your scale) and so noted the conversions in the output of the expanded dough calculating tool?

Peter

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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2011, 09:45:16 PM »
Norma,

For the record, you used the Baker's Non-Fat Dry Milk field in the expanded dough calculating tool for the Stretch-Out product and you did not convert the weights to volume measurements. Is that correct, or did you actually do a weight-to-volume conversion (using your scale) and so noted the conversions in the output of the expanded dough calculating tool?

Peter

Peter,

For the record, I did used the Baker’s Non-Fat Dry Milk field in the expanded dough calcutlating tool for the Stretch-Out product and I did not convert the weights to volume measurements.  I was going to do weight-to-volume conversion, but when I saw the Stretch-Out product wasn’t a powder substance, I didn’t know how to go about the weight-to-volume conversion, because I thought if I put the Stretch-Out into a 1/4 cup measuring cup, how would I know each time if I had weighed it right on my scale, because I would have had to compact it with a spoon or something in the 1/4 cup measuring cup.  Would that have been an okay way to measure it?  I wasn’t sure, since it wasn’t a powder substance.

Norma
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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2011, 09:57:09 PM »
Norma,

I think I would just force some of the Stretch-Out product into your measuring cup (tared) to fill it as completely as possible, level it off, and weigh it. I don't think that it is necessary to do multiple weighings and averaging several weighings. Another way might be to melt some of the Stretch-Out product, fill the (tared) measuring cup to the top, and weigh it.

Peter
« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 09:58:42 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2011, 10:34:49 PM »
Norma,

I think I would just force some of the Stretch-Out product into your measuring cup (tared) to fill it as completely as possible, level it off, and weigh it. I don't think that it is necessary to do multiple weighings and averaging several weighings. Another way might be to melt some of the Stretch-Out product, fill the (tared) measuring cup to the top, and weigh it.

Peter

I measured a stuffed 1/4 cup measuring cup of Stretch-Out and leveled it off with a knife 3 times. The first time it weighed 77 grams and the second and third times it weighed 78 grams.  I then put some of the Stretch-Out on the stove on low and melted it.  To fill the measuring cup, it then weighed 84 grams.  I did take the 78 grams and melted it, but I had to melt more of the Stretch-Out to fill the 1/4 measuring cup, after it was melted.  After the Stretch-Out was melted it changed color.  It was almost white, before measuring, but turned a light tan color after heating. Even on low temperature the Stretch-Out looked globby.  I did tare out the 1/4 measuring cup first each time.

I just felt the melted Stretch-Out, since I posted this.  The melted Stretch-Out fells almost like a rock, but does break-up if I dig my finger into it.

Norma
« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 10:38:27 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2011, 10:48:01 PM »
Norma,

I wondered what would happen to the Stretch-Out product if you heated it. Since the product is intended to be used right out of its container, I would go with your weighings in solid form. On that basis, a teaspoon would weigh [(77 + 78 + 78)/3]/12 = 6.47 grams (0.23 ounces).

Peter

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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2011, 10:58:05 PM »
Norma,

I wondered what would happen to the Stretch-Out product if you heated it. Since the product is intended to be used right out of its container, I would go with your weighings in solid form. On that basis, a teaspoon would weigh [(77 + 78 + 78)/3]/12 = 6.47 grams (0.23 ounces).

Peter

Peter,

I know the Stretch-Out product is intended to be used right out of the bag, or if kept in a container.  I thought is was weird how the Stretch-Out product melted.  The pan I melted it in, was very greasy after it was melted.  I sure wasn’t going to taste it again, because the salty taste is still in my mouth even after I drank different things.  I really wonder how much salt is in a small amount of Stretch-Out.  I don’t think I ever tasted anything that salty before.  I now wonder if the crust of the pizza will taste salty.

Thanks for figuring out what a teaspoon would weigh in solid form. 

Norma
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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2011, 11:11:15 PM »
Norma,

You will be using 14.26 grams of the Stretch-Out product. That comes to 14.26/6.47 = a bit less than 2 1/4 teaspoons. Salt is the predominant ingredient in the Stretch-Out product by weight. However, I have to believe that the salt can't be so excessive as to produce an essentially inedible end product. Maybe Edna will shed some light on the salt content.

Peter


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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2011, 11:31:22 PM »
Norma,

You will be using 14.26 grams of the Stretch-Out product. That comes to 14.26/6.47 = a bit less than 2 1/4 teaspoons. Salt is the predominant ingredient in the Stretch-Out product by weight. However, I have to believe that the salt can't be so excessive as to produce an essentially inedible end product. Maybe Edna will shed some light on the salt content.

Peter

Peter,

I know salt is the predominant ingredient in the Stretch-Out product.  I don’t think either, that the salt would be too excessive as to produce an inedible pizza, but never thought I would taste anything that was that salty.  I do have an email sent to Edna now with the other questions you had. I will follow-up to see if Edna knows enough about the salt in the Stretch-Out product.

I am curious about tasting a pizza using the Stretch-Out product to see how it compares with other pizzas I have made, in the terms of salt and also oil.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2011, 07:15:29 AM »
This is the email I received from Edna this morning, regarding the questions I had asked.

Good Morning Norma,
 
By reading the ingredient ledger Salt is the main ingredients in this product.  Caravan will not release percentages of what is in the base – sorry.

Edna

Norma
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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2011, 10:27:31 AM »
Caravan will not release percentages of what is in the base – sorry.

Norma,

I can't say that I am surprised by the response from Edna but I was hoping that she might make an exception in this case on the salt content because bakers often want, or need, to know what is in their product, especially something like the amount of salt, which can sometimes make or break a recipe. However, since the Stretch-Out product has to work for its intended purpose (in this case, a pizza dough), I would imagine that the salt quantity falls within the more or less classic 1.5-2% range. It may even lean to the low side so that users can add more in case it is needed.

Peter

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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2011, 11:58:19 AM »
Peter,

I told Edna in my email that I wanted to know if she knew how much salt and partially hydrogenated oil (s) by percent, was in the Stretch-Out, so maybe the dough I used at market could be modified to include another homemade dough enhancer I was experimenting with.  I told Edna my dough at market starts with a poolish and then told her how I went about letting the poolish cold ferment to then make the final dough later.

I guess they don’t want to tell the ingredients by percentage so someone could exactly figure out how to make the Stretch-Out products.

I guess I will see tomorrow how the crust tastes (in salt amounts), after the pizza is baked.

Norma
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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2011, 01:57:28 PM »
Norma,

Following up on Reply 21 in which I discussed how to treat the Stretch-Out product, I did a search of the PMQ Think Tank archives to see if Tom Lehmann ever posted on how to handle shortening when used as part of a dough formulation, that is, whether it can be added directly to the flour or after the dough has been mixed for a while. As you can see from Tom's PMQTT post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6110&p=38155&hilit=#p38163, the answer turns on whether the shortening is in liquid or solid form. If it is liquid, then it should go in after the initial mix, much like oil, whereas if the shortening is solid, as is the case with the Stretch-Out product, it can be added to the flour. This suggests that you could perhaps combine all of your ingredients in a "goody bag" form if you wish. This would be consistent with the way that the Bisquick mixes are made. It is also consistent with the Caravan instructions for using the Stretch-Out product to make a pizza dough.

Peter
« Last Edit: May 17, 2011, 11:56:26 PM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2011, 02:14:21 PM »
Norma,

Did you ask if the L-Cysteine was made from hair or by mutant E. coli?

CL
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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2011, 02:17:15 PM »
I don’t know why I thought the Stretch-Out was a powder, but just a little while ago, I opened the cardboard box and inside there is a big blue plastic bag.  The Stretch-Out product is almost like ice cream when scooping it out. It is also grainy.

It's mostly salt and shortening, right?

CL
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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2011, 02:20:44 PM »
Peter,

I was going to do weight-to-volume conversion, but when I saw the Stretch-Out product wasn’t a powder substance, I didn’t know how to go about the weight-to-volume conversion, because I thought if I put the Stretch-Out into a 1/4 cup measuring cup, how would I know each time if I had weighed it right on my scale, because I would have had to compact it with a spoon or something in the 1/4 cup measuring cup.  Would that have been an okay way to measure it?  I wasn’t sure, since it wasn’t a powder substance.

Norma

The best way is probably water immersion. Put 1 3/4 cup of water in a 2 cup measuring cup and then put in enough Strech-out to raise the water line (with the Strech-out pushed under the surface) to 2 cups. You will then have exactly 1/4 cup of Strech-out. Measuring out 1 cup of Stech-out the same way and then diving by 4 will minimize measurement error.

CL
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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2011, 02:31:30 PM »
I guess they don’t want to tell the ingredients by percentage so someone could exactly figure out how to make the Stretch-Out products.

Can you estimate the salt and shortening content from the nutritional information? It looks like they are the only meaningful sources of sodium and fat.

CL
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Re: Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2011, 11:51:26 PM »
Norma,

Following up on Reply 21 in which I discussed how to treat the Stretch-Out product, I did a search of the PMQ Think Tank archives to see if Tom Lehmann ever posted on how to handle shortening when used as part of a dough formulation, that is, whether it can be added directly to the flour or after the dough has been mixed for a while. As you can see from Tom's PMQTT post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6110&p=38155&hilit=#p38163, the answer turns on whether the shortening is in liquid or solid form. If it is liquid, then it should go in after the initial mix, much like oil, whereas if the shortening is solid, as is the case with the Stretch-Out product, it can be added to the flour. This suggest that you could perhaps combine all of your ingredients in a "goody bag" form if you wish. This would be consistent with the way that the Bisquick mixes are made. It is also consistent with the Caravan instructions for using the Stretch-Out product to make a pizza dough.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for referencing the post from Tom Lehmann about whether it matters if shortening can be added to the flour directly.  That sounds good that the Stretch-Out product can be added to a “goody bag”.  That would make everything easier when making a mix or “goody bag”.  I just wanted to post that the dough and final pizza went well today with the Stretch-Out product.  Steve and I were both amazed at how fast a dough can be made and used, when using the Stretch-Out product.  It only took 1 ˝ hrs. from the time the dough was mixed by hand, until we made the pizza with the Stretch-Out product.  The taste of the crust using the Stretch-Out product was very good.  I sure don’t know how that is possible, but it was.

I will post the pictures tomorrow.

Norma
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