Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

I agree with Craig. Also, you used 45 minutes of rest periods for the original dough, which most likely improved the hydration (leading to a softer dough) and gave the dough a head start on fermentation.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

I agree with Craig. Also, you used 45 minutes of rest periods for the original dough, which most likely improved the hydration (leading to a softer dough) and gave the dough a head start on fermentation.

Peter

Maybe it didn't ferment faster than expected but rather the weaker dough just looks like it is fermenting faster because it has less strength to hold back the expanding gas?

CL

Craig and Peter,

Thanks for your replies!  They do make sense.  Do either of you think I might need a reball tomorrow, or should I go with the dough ball whatever it looks like tomorrow?

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

Normally, when a product like L-cysteine is used, or a similar product like PZ-44 that contains L-cysteine, the dough is managed like any other dough--without re-balling or anything like that. I think that you should just use your best judgment as to whether re-balling is necessary based on the appearance and structure of the dough. I trust your instincts on these kinds of matters.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Normally, when a product like L-cysteine is used, or a similar product like PZ-44 that contains L-cysteine, the dough is managed like any other dough--without re-balling or anything like that. I think that you should just use your best judgment as to whether re-balling is necessary based on the appearance and structure of the dough. I trust your instincts on these kinds of matters.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for your thoughts on what I should do with the “Old Faithful” dough ball with EL-7.  Since I really don’t have much of any experience with using EL-7, that is why I wasn’t sure of what to do.  I appreciate you trust my instincts, but I don’t trust mine after that pig slaughter at market, when using a commercial dough enhancer.    I will see how the dough balls looks tomorrow.  The “Old Faithful” dough ball was really different while it was even cold fermenting for a day.  I didn’t have a hole in the lid and the lid wanted to keep popping off, so this morning I did put a hole in the lid of the plastic container. It still wanted to pop the lid, so I made the hole bigger.  I have the dough ball in my deli case at market.  Just so it doesn’t pop the lid tonight and break a light in my deli case.  That would be one expensive dough ball if it did.  I haven’t had too many dough balls that wanted to keep popping off lids, but the “Old Faithful” kept doing that.  I have no idea why there was so much pressure in the plastic container with the dough ball in it.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

I went back to take another look at your dough formulation in Reply 94 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13820.msg144582.html#msg144582. I did this because I did not recall that there was anything unusual about the Old Faithful dough recipe that could account for a very high level of activity of a dough made using that recipe. But one possibility that occurred to me when I revisited your Old Faithful dough formulation is the reduced salt level that you used, 1%. When I originally saw that value, I simply assumed that you used the lower salt level to compensate for what you perceived to be an overly salty crust when you last used the EL-7 product. I think that the L-cysteine is partly responsible for the high level of activity of the dough, perhaps along with the fermentation of the dough before cooling, but it is also possible that the low salt level (1%) is contributing to the fast rise of the dough. If it is warm where you are this time of year, that may also be having its effect on the dough. It could well be that there are several forces acting simultaneously on the dough to cause it to rise faster than usual.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

I went back to take another look at your dough formulation in Reply 94 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13820.msg144582.html#msg144582. I did this because I did not recall that there was anything unusual about the Old Faithful dough recipe that could account for a very high level of activity of a dough made using that recipe. But one possibility that occurred to me when I revisited your Old Faithful dough formulation is the reduced salt level that you used, 1%. When I originally saw that value, I simply assumed that you used the lower salt level to compensate for what you perceived to be an overly salty crust when you last used the EL-7 product. I think that the L-cysteine is partly responsible for the high level of activity of the dough, perhaps along with the fermentation of the dough before cooling, but it is also possible that the low salt level (1%) is contributing to the fast rise of the dough. If it is warm where you are this time of year, that may also be having its effect on the dough. It could well be that there are several forces acting simultaneously on the dough to cause it to rise faster than usual.

Peter

Peter,

I did think the pizza crust was too salty in my last attempt using the EL-7, but I can understand now why the dough might be fermenting faster, while using the lower salt amount, and also since you explained that L-cysteine might also be partly responsible for the high level of activity in the dough ball.  It is warmer in our area and I have the central air on, but it was about 81 degrees F when I made the dough at home. Usually I don’t have as high of final dough temperature as I did either. Those rest periods probably didn’t help either. I did take the dough ball over to market in a cooler, so I don’t think that had an way of increasing the activity of the dough.  I also had my refrigerator opened and closed a lot in the last few days, so that also could have contributed to a faster activity.  I was putting hot foods in to cool that I cooked, so that probably had something to do with the “Old Faithful” dough ball, too.  It is supposed to be around 86 degrees F in our area tomorrow with high humidity, (and temperatures near my oven at market, will be higher) so I will have to watch what happens with the “Old Faithful” dough ball and if I think it needs any warm-up time or not.  I can see there can be different forces that are coming together to make this dough ball have more activity.  I was only going to do a one day cold ferment, but I wanted to see if I could get a better crust flavor from a longer cold ferment.  Maybe I only should have done a one day cold ferment.

Thanks for your help in understanding what is going on.

Norma

[norma427]

The “Old Faithful” dough ball with EL-7 added didn’t look like it fermented anymore until today.  I sure don’t know why that was.  Maybe it was because I put a bigger hole in the lid.  Most of the bubbles went down until this morning.  I though that was strange.  The “Old Faithful” dough ball looked a little drier on the top too. 

I let the dough sit at the ambient room temperature of about 92 degrees F for about 3 hrs. and it still didn’t look like it fermented much more. After sitting out, the top of the dough ball looked moister.   Steve opened the dough ball and it stretched open in no time, and even got much bigger than 18".  It wanted to flop over the peel, so Steve just pushed the skin back some.  The “Old Faithful” pizza baked well and tasted like a NY street pizza.  The pizza was a little over 18".

I would say the “Old Faithful” pizza with EL-7 was a success.

Pictures below

Norma

[norma427]

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Norma

[norma427]

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Norma

[norma427]

The EL-7 added to the preferment Lehmann dough worked out well.  The dough was easy to open and the crust seemed to be moister since the EL-7 was added.  The taste of the final pizza with EL-7 tasted about the same as a regular preferment Lehmann dough pizza. 

What I found interesting about the preferment Lehmann dough ball with the EL-7 added is it wanted seem to ferment more too, just like the "Old Faithful" dough ball did.  Usually in a one day cold ferment, I don't develop any big bubbles on the top of the dough balls, but did yesterday, even before the warm-up.  The warm-up time was a little over an hour and the bubble on top of the dough ball did become bigger.

Steve placed fresh basil from my garden on this pizza, so the preferment Lehmann dough with the EL-7 added was a Pizza Margherita, at least for this pie. 

Pictures below

Norma

[norma427]

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Norma

[norma427]

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Norma

[TXCraig1]

No commercial pizza mix ever made I pie that looks as good as that! Few commercial restaurants have for that matter!

CL

[norma427]

No commercial pizza mix ever made I pie that looks as good as that! Few commercial restaurants have for that matter!

CL

Craig,

Lol, do you think I should try the EL-7 in a pizza crust mix on my mystery thread?     At least a home pizza maker could stretch out the dough easily.  Thanks for your kind comments! 

Norma

[norma427]

I mixed another “Old Faithful” dough with EL-7.  The final dough temperature was 81.2 degrees F.  The dough balls looks and feels dry, but I guess until Tuesday the EL-7 product will soften it up some.

Edit:  Sorry, I posted the wrong dough ball before, but this is the "Old Faithful" dough ball.  I have too many pictures on my computer of dough balls, that I soon need to delete.

Norma

[norma427]

I send Edna an email each week if I try one of the Caravan products she sent me to sample.  Last week I had asked Edna if she thought the EL-7 had something to do with how the doughs fermented I had made last week.

This is Edna’s reply email this morning.

Hello Norma,
 
Wow – Your doing lots of testing - - I think the L-Cystiene may have a lot to do with the progressive fermentation.  I may be in Pa. next week - - what are your business hours?
 
Regards
 
Edna Guajardo
Mid-Atlantic Sales Manager
Specialty Bakery Division

Lol, if Edna does get to visit me next week, I better come up with some interesting experiments that will work.  

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

You can read a bit more about L-Cysteine and other reducing agents at http://www.lallemand.com/BakerYeastNA/eng/PDFs/LBU%20PDF%20FILES/1_7REDUC.PDF. It is hard to say how much a reducing agent like L-Cysteine affects fermentation, but perhaps the softening of the gluten matrix facilitates or allows for more effective fermentation. You perhaps would have to do a side by side test using the L-Cysteine (via the EL-7 product) in one of the doughs and none in the other (with slightly less salt). The "Old Faithful" dough recipe would seem to be a good recipe to use this way because of its low hydration value.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

You can read a bit more about L-Cysteine and other reducing agents at http://www.lallemand.com/BakerYeastNA/eng/PDFs/LBU%20PDF%20FILES/1_7REDUC.PDF. It is hard to say how much a reducing agent like L-Cysteine affects fermentation, but perhaps the softening of the gluten matrix facilitates or allows for more effective fermentation. You perhaps would have to do a side by side test using the L-Cysteine (via the EL-7 product) in one of the doughs and none in the other (with slightly less salt). The "Old Faithful" dough recipe would seem to be a good recipe to use this way because of its low hydration value.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for the link about L-Cysteine and other reducing agents.  I will read it over better a little later, so I can understand it more.  I could do a side by side comparison with the “Old Faithful” dough, one with EL-7 and one without EL-7.  I didn’t take a picture of the “Old Faithful” dough ball this morning, but is has really started fermenting more and is softening up.  I will take a picture of the “Old Faithful” dough ball when I am at market today, if I remember. 

Norma

[norma427]

This is a picture of the “Old Faithful” dough ball with EL-7 added, this afternoon at market. The changes I made when mixing this dough ball were, I mixed all the ingredients in except the oil and mixed on speed two with only the C-hook for 7 minutes.  I then added the vegetable oil and mixed until incorporated.  I didn’t give this dough any rest period while mixing or before I balled the dough ball.  I also switched flours because I didn’t have enough KASL at home to make this dough.  I used Kyrol flour. 

There aren’t any top bubbles like last week, but the bottom of the dough ball looks like it is fermenting well.

Norma

[norma427]

The “Old Faithful” dough ball acted normally this week.  I think my refrigerator must have been too high of a temperature, from putting too many cooked foods inside to cool, or either I had given the dough last week too many rest periods last week, that the dough ball developed the bubbles on top of the dough ball.  There weren’t any bubbles on top of the dough ball this week and the dough ball looked like it fermented normally. 

The “Old Faithful” dough ball was fairly easy to open, but still felt somewhat dry.  The end pizza did taste like a NY street pizza. 

I don’t know what experiment to do next with the EL-7 product.

Norma