Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough

[Pete-zza]

I don’t know what experiment to do next with the EL-7 product.

Norma,

In a broad, generic sense, the EL-7 product seems applicable to any dough that is subject, for whatever reason, to excessive elasticity. It might be because of the type of flour used (high-gluten flours seems to be the main villain from a flour standpoint), or a low hydration dough such as the original Old Faithful dough (around 51%) or a cracker-style dough (in the mid-30% range) that is to be run through a sheeter or roller, or a dough that might be used in a dough press, or a dough that develops excessive strength during fermentation (with the preferment Lehmann dough being an example). I view the EL-7 product to be a solution to problems that cannot otherwise be solved using conventional dough preparation and management methods.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

In a broad, generic sense, the EL-7 product seems applicable to any dough that is subject, for whatever reason, to excessive elasticity. It might be because of the type of flour used (high-gluten flours seems to be the main villain from a flour standpoint), or a low hydration dough such as the original Old Faithful dough (around 51%) or a cracker-style dough (in the mid-30% range) that is to be run through a sheeter or roller, or a dough that might be used in a dough press, or a dough that develops excessive strength during fermentation (with the preferment Lehmann dough being an example). I view the EL-7 product to be a solution to problems that cannot otherwise be solved using conventional dough preparation and management methods.

Peter

Peter,

I can understand the EL-7 would help with almost any kind of dough that has different problems.  I don’t have a sheeter or regular roller, but would like to try a really low hydration dough something like a cracker crust. I do have a heavy rolling pin. I don’t think I ever tried a cracker crust before.  Do you have any ideas of what cracker style formula I should try with the EL-7 product?

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I can understand the EL-7 would help with almost any kind of dough that has different problems.  I don’t have a sheeter or regular roller, but would like to try a really low hydration dough something like a cracker crust. I do have a heavy rolling pin. I don’t think I ever tried a cracker crust before.  Do you have any ideas of what cracker style formula I should try with the EL-7 product?

Norma,

I think a cracker style dough is a very good choice for an EL-7 experiment. You might consider using DKM's cracker style dough recipe as given at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizzainnstyle.php. I suggest that recipe because of the low hydration value, 36%. A dough with such a low hydration can be very difficult to roll out in a home setting using a rolling pin. I came up with a solution for that problem that called for using heat to warm up the dough to a temperature of above 90 degrees F before rolling out, using a proofing box I put together to warm up the dough. Using the EL-7 product might be a good substitute for the heating process and make rolling out the dough easier. You can read about my solution at Reply 16 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5762.msg49138.html#msg49138. The main difference in the dough recipe given in Reply 16 is that I used a lower thickness factor than I calculated for DKM's recipe. That made my crust crispier rather than cracker like. I like both crust textures but personally prefer the crispier version.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

I think a cracker style dough is a very good choice for an EL-7 experiment. You might consider using DKM's cracker style dough recipe as given at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizzainnstyle.php. I suggest that recipe because of the low hydration value, 36%. A dough with such a low hydration can be very difficult to roll out in a home setting using a rolling pin. I came up with a solution for that problem that called for using heat to warm up the dough to a temperature of above 90 degrees F before rolling out, using a proofing box I put together to warm up the dough. Using the EL-7 product might be a good substitute for the heating process and make rolling out the dough easier. You can read about my solution at Reply 16 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5762.msg49138.html#msg49138. The main difference in the dough recipe given in Reply 16 is that I used a lower thickness factor than I calculated for DKM's recipe. That made my crust crispier rather than cracker like. I like both crust textures but personally prefer the crispier version.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for the links about making a cracker style dough with the EL-7 product.  36% hydration is really low.  I can understand how a proofing box can help the dough soften.  If you remember, I also built a proofing box.  I could try the EL-7 to see if it softens the dough enough to roll it out without a proofing box, but also have my proofing box incase the EL-7 doesn’t soften the dough enough.  I think I would prefer the crispy crust also, but won’t know until I try.  You gave very detailed instructions on how to make the dough and pizza.  What I wonder is because I don’t have a dark anodized nonperforated cutter pan, is there another pan that you would suggest to use that I might have?

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Thanks for the links about making a cracker style dough with the EL-7 product.  36% hydration is really low.  I can understand how a proofing box can help the dough soften.  If you remember, I also built a proofing box.  I could try the EL-7 to see if it softens the dough enough to roll it out without a proofing box, but also have my proofing box in case the EL-7 doesn’t soften the dough enough.  I think I would prefer the crispy crust also, but won’t know until I try.  You gave very detailed instructions on how to make the dough and pizza.  What I wonder is because I don’t have a dark anodized nonperforated cutter pan, is there another pan that you would suggest to use that I might have?

Norma,

If you have another type of pan that is large enough to contain the skin/pizza, I think that should work. It might even be perforated. In a pinch, you might try using a pizza screen, at least until the skin is prebaked enough to slide onto a preheated pizza stone to finish prebaking (I have not tried a pizza screen myself but I vaguely recall that another member said it would work). One of the advantages of a cutter pan, or any similar pan (including a disk), is that you can put the sauce, cheese and toppings right to the outer edge without fear that the cheese and/or toppings will spill over the sides when shuffling the pizza into the oven. Covering the edges of the pizza might also discourage a defined rim from forming, even with docking. Ideally, you want the entire pizza to be flat.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

If you have another type of pan that is large enough to contain the skin/pizza, I think that should work. It might even be perforated. In a pinch, you might try using a pizza screen, at least until the skin is prebaked enough to slide onto a preheated pizza stone to finish prebaking (I have not tried a pizza screen myself but I vaguely recall that another member said it would work). One of the advantages of a cutter pan, or any similar pan (including a disk), is that you can put the sauce, cheese and toppings right to the outer edge without fear that the cheese and/or toppings will spill over the sides when shuffling the pizza into the oven. Covering the edges of the pizza might also discourage a defined rim from forming, even with docking. Ideally, you want the entire pizza to be flat.

Peter

Peter,

I do have aluminum 14" cutter pans, lloyds’s perforated coated flat disks, or aluminum screens. I can understand the advantages of using a cutter pan so the sauce, cheese and toppings won’t spill over the sides. 

Thanks for you help!

Norma

[norma427]

I made a dough for a cracker style crust last evening with EL-7.  The pizza size I went with was 15" to be cut to 14".   I did use 130 degrees F water for the mix in my food processor.  The dough came out okay in the food processor, but I remembered after the dough was looking crumbled and I had lumped it together and removed it from the food processor bowl, I had forgot to add the oil.  I then put the dough that had looked okay to me, back into the food processor and added the oil.  The dough then looked quite different.  I balled the dough and coated it lightly with vegetable oil. 

I had heated my homemade proofing box before I started the dough and the temperature on the proofing box was 110 degrees F.  I let the dough ball that had been place into a plastic container, proof for two hours.  The dough in the beginning was somewhat easy to roll out, but as I kept measuring, for 15", with the somewhat shaggy edges, I am not sure it I have the right thickness factor. The skin became increasing harder to roll out after it had cooled some. The skin weighed 9.3 oz. after it was cut and the skin only measures 12 1/2".  The skin then was wrapped in plastic and put into a plastic zip bag. I will be taking the skin to market.

This was the formula I used and the pictures of the process.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Since I have never made a cracker style pizza, I am not sure if my results were like a cracker style or not.  The pizza did sound very crispy when cut.

I used my rolling pin to roll the crust some after I unfolded the dough.  I used my aluminum cutter pan and Steve did oil it some with olive oil.  The crust was pre-baked.  Then the dressings of sauce, spring onions, green peppers, spinach and two kinds of mozzarella were applied in the cutter pan.  The dressed pie then was put back into the oven.  I saw the bottom crust wasn’t getting brown at all, so I removed the pizza from the cutter pan and put it right on the deck, until Steve and I thought it was baked enough.

I enjoyed this different kind of pizza, even though I don’t know if I made it right, or it was like it should have been. 

Pictures below

Norma

[norma427]

more pictures

Norma

[norma427]

end of pictures

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

For a first try at the cracker style, I would say that you did really well. I think that you would find that a dark anodized cutter pan does a better job than a plain aluminum one.

Would you say that the EL-7 product was useful in making the cracker style dough and rolling it out?

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

For a first try at the cracker style, I would say that you did really well. I think that you would find that a dark anodized cutter pan does a better job than a plain aluminum one.

Would you say that the EL-7 product was useful in making the cracker style dough and rolling it out?

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for saying for my first try at a cracker style, I did well.  I also think a dark anodized cutter pan would do a better job than the aluminum one I used.

I don’t really know if the EL-7 product did help or not with being able to roll the dough.  The dough at first was easy to roll, but as it became a little cooler it didn’t want to roll out well. 

I want to try a cracker style again next week with the EL-7 product to see if I can get about the same results or better.  I did post I forgot to put the oil in the dough, but then put it back into my food processor.  Maybe that made some difference. When I put the dough back into the food processor the food processor really rocked.  I really don’t know if that made any difference in anything or not. 

Do you have any ideas about what I could do differently the next time to get better results?

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Do you have any ideas about what I could do differently the next time to get better results?

Norma,

I think the only change I would make is to increase the amount of the EL-7 product. Of course, the actual amount will depend on the recipe you decide to use next time and the amount of flour called for in that recipe. You might also roll out the dough to make a slightly larger skin than the final desired size to offset the possibililty that the skin shrinks a bit as it cools after rolling. If the skin doesn't shrink, that might be an indication that the EL-product prevents or minimizes the shrinkage. That would be a good piece of information to know.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

I think the only change I would make is to increase the amount of the EL-7 product. Of course, the actual amount will depend on the recipe you decide to use next time and the amount of flour called for in that recipe. You might also roll out the dough to make a slightly larger skin than the final desired size to offset the possibililty that the skin shrinks a bit as it cools after rolling. If the skin doesn't shrink, that might be an indication that the EL-product prevents or minimizes the shrinkage. That would be a good piece of information to know.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for you thoughts about increasing the EL-7 product in the next experiment.  I can understand if the skin doesn’t shrink, that might be an indication that the EL-7 product prevents or minimizes the shrinkage.

Norma

[norma427]

I mixed another cracker style dough today, but this time, I think I mixed the ingredients right, in the food processor. The temperature of the water used was 130 degrees F. I did proof the dough in my homemade proofing box at 110 degrees F for 2 hrs.  I also used more of the EL-7 product in the formula. 

First picture is after the cracker style with EL-7 dough was mixed.  Second picture dough in proofing box in container.  Third and fourth pictures of dough ball top and bottom after coming out of proofing box.  Next pictures after rolling dough, cutting, flouring, and putting the rolled out skin, then plastic and finally in a plastic bag.  The finished skin weighed 10.6 oz.  I am still not sure if I have the right TF.

My daughter and I both tasted the leftover dough and it almost tastes like pie crust dough.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

The experimental  cracker style pizza with extra EL-7 added did turned out okay, but I really don’t think I am making a crispy crackery crust.  At least it doesn’t seem like it to me.  After letting the skin warm-up at market yesterday, the dough rolled thinner, using my big rolling pin. Steve cut the extra dough, and weighed the excess dough that was cut off. The extra dough weighed 3.4 oz. I used my blackbuster steel pan this time to do the pre-bake.  The pre-baked skin was then simply dressed with sauce, mozzarella, pepperoni, and Parmesan cheese.  I don’t know if I am not a cracker style kind of girl or not, but I tend to like NY or other styles better.

I did email Edna the pictures of the baked cracker style pizza from last week and told her I was going to use more of the EL-7 product in the formula this week.  She sent me a return email saying:   
I am sure EL-7 will give you excellent sheeting results!

Pictures of process and baked cracker style pizza with the EL-7 products.  At first I put the dressed pre-baked crust on a black pizza screen, but took it off and placed the pie on the oven deck in about 15 seconds.  I don’t know if I should have used that method, or done something differently, to get better results.  Sorry, the one picture of the crust close-up is blurry.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma