Author Topic: Getting pretty frustrated  (Read 10282 times)

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Offline Moondance

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #50 on: May 25, 2011, 04:41:21 PM »
Regina, I saw that Image Optimizer was working for you, sorry, not familar with that other program. It may be you have to delete one of them or both and then download the one you want to use.
Don



it worked with most of the images, but the image that shows the finished product turned out a bit too large and I can't make it any smaller....
Regina

"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul."
John Muir


Offline chickenparm

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #51 on: May 25, 2011, 08:17:56 PM »
I wanted to show you folks another picture or two of how nice the dough turns out at times from the machine and cold rises.In these pictures,this is a over risen dough I wasn't going to use,so I decided to have a little fun with it.
 :)






-Bill

Offline Moondance

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #52 on: May 26, 2011, 04:46:50 PM »
I mixed up another batch for tomorrow night.

flour 100%
water 60%
IDY 0.3 %
Salt 2.0%
oil 2.0%
sugar 2.0%

one dough ball 14" 15.39 OZ

i took it out after the first knead cycle about 12 min.  I did not have to add any flour or water and I will let it sit on the counter about 1/2 hour for bake tomorrow night.  It came out firmer than last nights dough.  Maybe I mis-measured last night.  I can post pics tomorrow from work. My computer at home is slow speed mountain connection.  In town I have high speed. Timer just went off and I did not notice much rise in the doughafter about 1/2 hour.  I sealed it and put it in the fridge. 

Ok, I'm back and hope to now put up pics.  Once again these are from last friday's bake which was mixed as stated above in the quote in my Regal Bread Machine.

We were quite pleased with how this one came out.  I used almost room temp water which seems to have made a difference.  The crust was pretty light and airy at the rim with crunch/chewy combination pretty much throughout.  It did lack some flavor but I think that was because I skimped on the sauce because I over did it last time.  It was baked in 1 hour preheated electric oven at 550 for about 8 min.  I took it out and immediately placed in on my SS pizza pan so it did not continue to cook.  I'm sure that also made a big difference.  What do you think? 

Regina

"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul."
John Muir

Offline Moondance

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2011, 04:59:02 PM »
Last night (Wednesday) I mixed up my dough for this Friday using the same recipe but maybe rounding the salt oil and sugar instead of being so exact.  It mixed very nicely but I did add maybe 1/2 tsp more of water during the mix.  After the first knead cycle of about 11.5 minutes, I put it in the oiled container and directly into the fridge for Friday night.  I'll let you know how it goes.  Thanks for everyones help.  I hope I getting on the right track now.
Regina

"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul."
John Muir

Offline Moondance

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2011, 04:59:49 PM »
Last night (Wednesday) I mixed up my dough for this Friday using the same recipe but maybe rounding the salt oil and sugar instead of being so exact.  It mixed very nicely but I did add maybe 1/2 tsp more of water during the mix.  After the first knead cycle of about 11.5 minutes, I put it in the oiled container and directly into the fridge for Friday night.  I'll let you know how it goes.  Thanks for everyones help.  I hope I getting on the right track now.

Last wednesday meaning this week May 25th.
Regina

"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul."
John Muir

Offline jonesyb

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2011, 05:23:43 PM »
That last pizza looks utterly delicious.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2011, 05:57:52 PM »
Moondance, the pizza you posted looks delicious.  And if you like it that's all that matters.  If you follow the same recipe and procedure I don't see why you wouldn't get consistent results from here on out.  Only when you tire of eating that type of pizza should you experiment a little.  Just make one or 2 changes at a time so you can see how those changes play out. 

I would just give one tip.  When the pizza comes out of the oven, I like to cool it on a rack for a few minutes before cutting.  This allows some of the heat to dissipate and avoids steaming the bottom.  It'll keep the bottom crisp unless you dislike a crisp bottom.

I would say you have a winner of a recipe and procedure there.   

Chau

Offline jever4321

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2011, 07:12:56 PM »
I agree with Chau, Your pizza looks great. Good job!
-Jay

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2011, 09:08:16 PM »
Nice Job! Looks like your'e getting it all dialed in now.The dough and especially The pizza,looks great!
 :)
Also,some advice,agreeing with Chau too,putting a pizza straight onto the SS tray can cause it to get watery or soggy on the bottom sometimes.I put mine pies on pizza screen that sits on the counter to let it cool off a few minutes there.

You will need to decide for yourself if the pizza is just fine on the tray or if it indeed becomes a bit soggy after sitting a few minutes.If your crust is crisp enough,you may not notice it or it may be no big deal.

Keep up the good work!

 :)





-Bill


Offline chickenparm

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2011, 09:23:30 PM »
I wanted to tell you,check your dough each day.If it gets alot of bubbles or rises too much,it may over rise by the time you are going to use it.Also good learning experience to see how it changes each day.
 :)
-Bill

Offline jever4321

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #60 on: May 26, 2011, 10:02:09 PM »
BTW Bill, Nice job on the window pane dough a few posts up! thats pretty impressive. 
-Jay

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #61 on: May 26, 2011, 10:13:08 PM »
Jay,
Thanks man! Im not into the window-paning club,but it was fun to do and show how the doughs can turn out.
 :)
-Bill

Offline Moondance

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #62 on: May 26, 2011, 10:31:54 PM »
Thanks for the encouraging comments and I forgot to comment on Bill's amazing windowpane.  Wow!  My thing is I'm always wondering how to improve what I just did.  So I'm not at my perfect crust yet but feel like I'm getting more knowledge that I can control things better.  We'll see about that  :)

I will keep up with progress and open for any suggestions.  I am looking for something slightly more tender and airy but we love crunch as well.  I will try a screen/grill out of the oven but usually the pizza doesn't last long enough to notice.   I do like my new pizza stone alot so far.  I think It seems to get hotter than my old stone.  It is thicker.  Looking forward to Friday to see if I can improve.

 
Regina

"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul."
John Muir

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #63 on: May 26, 2011, 10:45:12 PM »
I wanted to show you what can happen after 3+ days in the fridge with some doughs that risen too long in the machine,or the counter before being cold stored.

I forgot about this dough and its similar to the one I window paned with.I took the pics the same time as the window pane dough.The other pics came out blurry so I didn't post them.This one was clear enough.

It blew up too much and was caving in on itself when I tried to take it out.
 :-D




-Bill

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #64 on: May 26, 2011, 10:55:22 PM »
I wanted to show you folks another picture or two of how nice the dough turns out at times from the machine and cold rises.In these pictures,this is a over risen dough I wasn't going to use,so I decided to have a little fun with it.
 :)


Bill, sorry I haven't chimed in about your dough.  It's really nice and smooth.  I would say about as nice as the dough Scott r posted that he made in his bosch machine.   Windowpane and cold fermenting dough doesn't necessarily produce terrible results.  It's generally not advocated by many on the board (inlcuding myself), but I have made decent pizza with dough that I windowpaned and cold fermented.  I even reballed it after it was CF for a short while and the results weren't bad.  A bit more chew than I normally go for but not terrible.   

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13728.0.html

Anyways, keep up the good work Bill. 

Chau




scott123

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #65 on: May 26, 2011, 11:24:12 PM »
I will keep up with progress and open for any suggestions.  I am looking for something slightly more tender and airy but we love crunch as well.  I will try a screen/grill out of the oven but usually the pizza doesn't last long enough to notice.   I do like my new pizza stone alot so far.  I think It seems to get hotter than my old stone.  It is thicker.  Looking forward to Friday to see if I can improve.

Tenderness and airiness are directly proportional to bake time. If you can't break the 6 minute bake barrier, you can kiss tender and airy goodbye. Without a good stone, this is difficult to do. You basically started off with a really thin, almost worthless stone, and with the KA purchase, you improved your oven setup a bit, but not enough. I know the last thing you want to hear is that you bought a mediocre stone, but... you bought a mediocre stone.

The only way you're going to get sub 6 minute bakes with that KA stone is to trick the oven so that it goes higher than 550.  If you do a forum search for 'oven trick,' you'll see a few options, including cleaning cycle hacks and icing the thermostat. If you don't want to mess around with the oven, though, it's time to go stone shopping again. 1/2" steel plate is the reigning contender for puffy/air 4 minute NY style bakes at 550 degrees. A 16" x 16" plate should run you less than $25. For NY style, you want to get a square plate as large as your oven will fit.  The larger the better.

What flour are you using?  Short baking times are the critical component for airy and tender results, but the right flour helps a little also. If you're using KABF, you can bump up your volume a bit with a move to a real (bromated) pizzeria flour.

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #66 on: May 26, 2011, 11:31:29 PM »
Thanks Chau!

Appreciate the nice words! I have never been a person of doing the window paning,but its great to see what the dough can be made to do.As I learn with time,advice and experience,its actually nice to see that this little machine can do for me as more expensive units have done for others.

Someday I may buy a machine that can mix a lot more dough,but for now,this little Oster does a great job for the amounts I make at a given time.I have also been very satisfied with using large screens for pies I don't have a stone sized for yet.I love getting results that are unexpected.
 :)






-Bill


Offline Moondance

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #67 on: May 27, 2011, 12:51:34 PM »
Regina,

Just to point out again,my dough has come out the same with either water.Cool or room temp.I have never used very cold water,and maybe that might be a problem for some machines.

Here is what I do with the Oster Bread machine.

Add all the liquids first.

That means,I add the water and the oil I will be using into the machine mixing bucket,first.

In another bowl,I add the flour,salt,sugar and yeast,mix it well into the flour,then pour that flour mix into the bread machine bucket where the dough and oil is already in there.

Then I press the dough option button and let the machine knead and do its job.When its done kneading,I let the dough rise for 30 minutes before the light ball shaping and putting into the fridge.


The pics I posted are the results of the exact way I have done it.

Bill,

I think you have told me this but how long do you let your BM knead the dough and do you let it rise in the BM or on the counter?
Regina

"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul."
John Muir

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #68 on: May 27, 2011, 02:59:09 PM »
I let the BM machine knead the dough until its done.Kneading takes 30 minutes.When the kneading is done,I let the dough rise inside the machine for 20-30 minutes before I take it out and ball it for the fridge.

My machine does have a 1 hour rise time if I want to let it sit for an hour,but I always take the dough out before 30 minutes.If I do not,it will get too big and will over ferment in the fridge by the 2nd day.Sometimes I take the dough out after 20 minutes of rise time,when it looks ready to come out.I check every 10 minutes to see how its rising.










-Bill

Offline Moondance

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2011, 01:36:09 PM »
Had another successful pizza last night.  Two in a row is a record for me!  So definitely the water temp played a big role as well as not overcooking it by letting it sit on the stone too long.

This one stretched out to 14" and cooked in over 1 hour preheated oven at 550.  Cooked about 8 min and onto the SS Pan.  I dressed it with  Muir Glen Pizza sauce, half Itailian Sausage (for my husband), some chopped mushrooms, dried Oregano, some shredded Bel Giosso Provolone and cant remember the brand sliced Mozz.

My husband who adds more spices to EVERYTHING, said it was perfect and didn't add any extra spices!  That was a first.  He also said, ok now, don't change a thing, this is perfect!  It was quite good, but not perfect in my book.   :angel:

This dough was taken out of my bread machine after about 12 min knead and then straight into the fridge after balling.  I think I may try as Bill does and let the BM cycle longer because when I did that in the past the dough ball came out super smooth and perhaps that would make an even better crust?  Not sure.
Regina

"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul."
John Muir

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2011, 05:39:38 PM »
Wow,that looks great! The dough and pie is perfect.Very nice job there!
 :pizza:

If you want to try longer mix times and etc,by all means,go for it.I still try new experiments from time to time.Small changes though.Only way to learn and improve upon ourselves is to try different approaches.
 :)


-Bill

Offline Moondance

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #71 on: May 28, 2011, 09:54:59 PM »
Tenderness and airiness are directly proportional to bake time. If you can't break the 6 minute bake barrier, you can kiss tender and airy goodbye. Without a good stone, this is difficult to do. You basically started off with a really thin, almost worthless stone, and with the KA purchase, you improved your oven setup a bit, but not enough. I know the last thing you want to hear is that you bought a mediocre stone, but... you bought a mediocre stone.

The only way you're going to get sub 6 minute bakes with that KA stone is to trick the oven so that it goes higher than 550.  If you do a forum search for 'oven trick,' you'll see a few options, including cleaning cycle hacks and icing the thermostat. If you don't want to mess around with the oven, though, it's time to go stone shopping again. 1/2" steel plate is the reigning contender for puffy/air 4 minute NY style bakes at 550 degrees. A 16" x 16" plate should run you less than $25. For NY style, you want to get a square plate as large as your oven will fit.  The larger the better.

What flour are you using?  Short baking times are the critical component for airy and tender results, but the right flour helps a little also. If you're using KABF, you can bump up your volume a bit with a move to a real (bromated) pizzeria flour.

Thank you for the suggestions!  I will do the forum search for oven trick because I am rarely satisfied and always looking to do a little better.  Do you have a web site link for that 1/2" steel plate.  That's one I have not heard of.  I am using KA BF but I do have Caputo flour in the pantry.  What flour would you recommend using?  I'm not familiar with all the different types of flour. 
Regina

"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul."
John Muir

Offline pdog

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #72 on: May 30, 2011, 10:27:57 PM »
Moondance......Pizza looks great!

My oven will only go up to 550,  but with some tinkering I can achieve 800+ on the stone in my 550 oven.

How does your oven heat?  Do you have gas, or electric?  Is the heat source on the top. bottom or both?

Caputo loves heat!  The more heat the better results you will achieve.... (850+) 

With less heat I would suggest you mix the Caputo with another high gluten flour.  If I am going to cook at 550-600 I mix 60 caputo with 40 KA bread flour.  Seems to work well. 

Offline Moondance

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #73 on: May 30, 2011, 11:33:12 PM »
Moondance......Pizza looks great!

My oven will only go up to 550,  but with some tinkering I can achieve 800+ on the stone in my 550 oven.

How does your oven heat?  Do you have gas, or electric?  Is the heat source on the top. bottom or both?

Caputo loves heat!  The more heat the better results you will achieve.... (850+) 

With less heat I would suggest you mix the Caputo with another high gluten flour.  If I am going to cook at 550-600 I mix 60 caputo with 40 KA bread flour.  Seems to work well. 

I have an electric oven.  Uh, not sure if the heat sourice on thetop or bottom or even how to determine that?  It is a new stove.  General Electric. I do have Caputo flour.  I am new to this so not sure how to determine what is high gluten flour either.  Do you think the Caputo is a better choice than King Arthur?  What king of tinkering do you do to get the higher temps?
Regina

"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul."
John Muir

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Getting pretty frustrated
« Reply #74 on: May 31, 2011, 12:16:34 AM »
... Do you think the Caputo is a better choice than King Arthur?  ...

Moondance your last pizza looks excellent!  As a newbie (Me) may I suggest that you continue to cook your latest recipe a few dozen times before you change anything.  Caputo has strengths and weaknesses.  There is nothing magical about Caputo 00 flour. There is no need at this point for you to jump ship on flours.  KEEP DOING WHAT YOUR DOING.

Just my $.02
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends


 

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