Making Neo-Neopolitan in a "Deck" oven?

[pie eye]

I know this topic has surely come up before, but I want to see if we can stir up a little conversation.

Apart from using a wood-fired oven or coal-fired oven, what are some oven options for producing a pie in this style.

For example, Peter Reinhardt (and this is what I'm refering too) refers to this style as: New Haven big 3, New York's coal-fired big 5 , Tacconelli's, etc.Yup, I know, all are coal-fired.

I've experimented w/ the "cleaning cycle" because of Varasano and I love the results. I have the best results around 750-800 degrees.

That's still about 100+ degrees over what the "non-wood or coal fired" world of ovens seems to do- the Marsal MB and the higher temp Blogetts, to name a couple.

*Not really interested in the Pizza Masters*

Thanks for any input anyone has in advance!!!!

[TXCraig1]

*Not really interested in the Pizza Masters*

What does that mean?

[pie eye]

I think those are the ovens Jeff Varasano uses.

Oh, maybe they're "Pizza Maker". The company out of Sweden, I believe.

[Jackie Tran]

You can surely make this style of pie in the home oven without using the cleaning cycle.  Just keep the stone about 5-6" from the top broiler.   

You can also make this style in the MBE or LBE, the mini black egg or the little black egg.  Just do a search for "LBE" and have a read.

Chau

[pie eye]

Thanks for the response! I didn't clarify. I'm looking for commercial ovens.

[Pete-zza]

pie eye,

Norma and Ev (Steve) have baked several of the Reinhart pizzas in Norma's commercial Bakers Pride gas-fired deck oven at the market where she works. You can see some examples starting at Reply 27 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13442.msg134075.html#msg134075 and Reply 83 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13442.msg135973.html#msg135973. For other ones of Norma's Reinhart creations, see the posts starting at Reply 166 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13037.msg130481.html#msg130481 and Reply 202 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13037.msg131346.html#msg131346. I'm sure that Norma can answer most of your questions and some of the issues involved in baking doughs with high sugar/honey content in a deck oven.

Peter

[Jackie Tran]

Thanks for the response! I didn't clarify. I'm looking for commercial ovens.

I'm sorry I misread your post Pie eye. 

[BrickStoneOven]

I've experimented w/ the "cleaning cycle" because of Varasano and I love the results. I have the best results around 750-800 degrees.

The Bakers Pride electric ovens can get up to 800F.

[norma427]

pie eye,

In addition to Peter’s post at Reply 5, http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13915.msg139798.html#msg139798 I usually don’t bake pies at high temperatures, but have tried before in another dough I made.  If you have any questions about baking in my Baker’s Pride deck oven, I would answer what I can.  My deck oven is a Baker's Pride GP-61.

I haven’t ever tested how high in temperature my deck oven can get, or all the styles of pies that can be baked in my deck oven, because most of my doughs seem to bake better at lower temperatures.

Norma

[Essen1]

I haven’t ever tested how high in temperature my deck oven can get, or all the styles of pies that can be baked in my deck oven, because most of my doughs seem to bake better at lower temperatures.

Norma

Norma,

If I had your oven, I'd give it a run for its money and see how high it can go, making all kinds of pies from New Haven to Elite NY-style to Semi-Neapolitan!

I think you should go for it and tap into your adventurous genes and find out! 

I mean you have come up with some interesting projects like the Kefir pies, the Ischia stealth project, your preferment Lehmann adaption, etc.

I'd max that puppy out using different pizza styles. 

[Jet_deck]

I think those are the ovens Jeff Varasano uses.

Oh, maybe they're "Pizza Maker". The company out of Sweden, I believe.

I concur that it is a Pizza Master oven.

http://www.macbrothers.co.za/700series.php

South Africa ?  I really don't know, he told me they were Italian.

[norma427]

Norma,

If I had your oven, I'd give it a run for its money and see how high it can go, making all kinds of pies from New Haven to Elite NY-style to Semi-Neapolitan!

I think you should go for it and tap into your adventurous genes and find out! 

I mean you have come up with some interesting projects like the Kefir pies, the Ischia stealth project, your preferment Lehmann adaption, etc.

I'd max that puppy out using different pizza styles. 

Mike,

I have always wanted to try higher bake temperatures and did one time at Reply 524  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg104776.html#msg104776 for an experiment that Chau wanted me to do, with using a higher temperature on my deck oven.  Those pictures were the results of using the preferment Lehmann dough at higher baked temperatures.

The only problem with doing experiments (with higher bake temperatures)when I am at market making my regular preferment Lehmann dough pizzas, is as you can see the bottom of that pizza crust did burn.  I then burnt different pizzas even as the temperatures dropped.  While I am at market, I mostly have to keep my deck oven temperatures about the same, because I have to keep baking pies.

I would like to play around with different doughs in my deck oven more, but I haven’t as of now. My deck oven even takes an hour to heat up the deck, the same as other ovens at home, used with pizza stones.

I guess this is a cop-out, but to clean everything up and try each dough at market, can also be time consuming, just like some of the doughs you have mentioned, but at least those doughs could be baked at my normal temperatures. 

Maybe one of these days I will try different doughs and max out the temperatures, but not on a market day. 

Norma

[pie eye]

Really appreciate the responses!

I contacted Pizza Master a few months ago (twice) and never heard back. Yeah, they seem to be out of South Africa, maybe w/ a big distributor out of Sweden...something like that anyway. A little wary. There doesn't seem to be that much info out there about them.

Baker's Pride electric, huh? Interesting. I've always figured I would use gas, but never had a reason, necessarily.

Can anyone chime in on pros or cons, as far as gas or electric?

I've got some great leads here.

[buceriasdon]

I put some numbers together a few months back comparing gas and electric ovens monthly cost to operate and here in my area of the world gas came out ahead of electric. One big cost for electric was the electric power company(in Mexico) would require a new seperate transformer be installed at my cost. I found the process of comparison very difficult to accomplish and much of it was guesstimating. I have seen only one big chain(Tower Pizza) here use an electric conveyor, Dominoes uses gas ovens. All the mom and pop pizzerias use gas deck ovens. Sorry I can't be of more assistance.
Don

[norma427]

pie eye,

I really can't give a comparison for an electric oven, because my oven is propane gas.  Most pizza businesses near me do use gas.

Norma

[Bobino414]

Pie Eye

As you are looking for an oven that can achieve high temps not wood or coal fired, you can try what I did.  I have a Cecilware 240 volt deck oven which was modified by bypassing the stop point of the thermostat.  With this mod I can reach 950 degrees which is the max of my thermometer.  I don't know if you are planning this for home use or commercial, but if it is commercial this mod is not UL certified so you probably won't pass inspection.  If it is for home use you might want to keep it outside.
Regarding gas vs electric-I recall electric produces a drier heat.  Cost is a factor for restaurants to use gas; but this does not include repair as Consumers Report some time back noted that electric ovens are more problem free(they compared home use ovens not commercial).

Bob

[buceriasdon]

Finally refound this site which was helpful in making comparisons between gas and electric.
http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/smokehouse-plans/smokehouse-burner
Don

[pie eye]

Thanks Don- interesting stuff here!

Norma, your pies look great! High temp ones as well, but yeah, some of the bottoms are a little aggressive.

Norma,wonder if there's a way to divert the heat to avoid the over-charring? Different stones? Maybe the first couple of pies you cook at that temp have to be started on the floor and at some point transferred to a screen to finish. Not suggesting that you try it, just thinking of possibilities at that temp.

[norma427]

pie eye,

On some of my experimental pies, even at lower temperatures, I do need to use a screen, or my bottom crust will get too dark.  I only experimented one time with Caputo flour in the deck oven, and the temperatures wasn’t really high.  Someday I need to do experiments on using Caputo at high temperatures.  I don’t know how the newer Baker’s Pride deck ovens work, or if they are better than mine, but I don’t really understand how I could divert the heat.  My pizza stones or the original ones that came with the oven.  My Baker’s Pride deck oven was used when I purchased it.  In my opinion, I would need to experiment with different doughs, at higher temperatures, to see what would happen. 

Norma

[pie eye]

Norma, I know someone chimed in that some Baker's Pride electrics go to 800, but what does yours max out at. I saw the pics of your pies at 670-700. Is that the max- 700?

By the way, I grew up in Harrisburg- probably not far from your market. Just a tid bit.