Author Topic: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!  (Read 31935 times)

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Offline RobynB

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Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« on: May 23, 2011, 01:05:44 AM »
After months of reading this forum and doing research, we are finally starting our project for real.  We are installing a Four Grand-Mere oven (WFO from France) into the wall of our dining room.  Choosing this oven was a bumpy process and would never have happened without guidance and support from a few wonderful regulars here on pizzamaking.com, and I'm sure we'll need lots more of both throughout the install and beyond.  We got the oven today, and are hoping to have it up and cooking by sometime in July. 

Here are some photos.  First is an interior shot of the "before" area - we will be removing the big window and the mouth of the oven will be on the left side of the opening, closest to the existing woodstove in the corner.  Second and third pics are the new oven in it's temporary place on pallets outside the dining room, and the last photo is an exterior shot of the window which will be replaced by the WFO. 


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2011, 01:13:33 AM »
Congrats Robyn, the oven looks beautiful.  Can't wait to see it all set up and baking pies and other goodies!

Chau

Offline Essen1

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2011, 01:16:59 AM »
I echo Chau's sentiment. Good stuff.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2011, 06:29:54 AM »
Robyn - can you talk about how you came to your oven decision, and what criteria you deemed important?

John

Offline Matthew

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2011, 06:57:01 AM »
Beautiful Oven!  Which model is it?  Is the dome insulated or just the floor?

Regards,
Matt

Offline JConk007

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2011, 08:02:57 AM »
Robyn,
Congrats!!
Looks really nice! I Think you made a great decision. The dome is one piece cast right?. No joint problems to worry about here.  And as mentioned the dome height looks proper too. I love the nice thick double floor insulating setup Looks as though it will hold the heat really well. . Chamotte refractory concrete right?  The door will look sweet on the interior as well.
Trust me when the dust settles, and that first pie comes out, you will quickly forget about all those "should we really do this?" thoughts.
Best of luck and good wishes for a quick and trouble less build.
John
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 08:10:25 AM by JConk007 »
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Offline jonesyb

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2011, 08:27:10 AM »
YES!! I absolutely can not get enough of these oven build threads and this is looking like it could be a particularly good one.

Offline wheelman

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2011, 08:40:36 AM »
that's a wonderful looking oven.  the inside build is going to be really interesting to follow.  thanks for sharing!
bill

Offline norma427

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2011, 08:57:39 AM »
RobynB,

Congrats, on your beautiful looking oven.  :)  Will be following your thread.  It will be interesting to watch a inside build.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2011, 09:37:27 AM »
Very nice. Please posts lots of pictures of the build. I'm interested to see how thy move the engine into place.

Will the vent pipe run vertically through the interior of your home?

CL
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline RobynB

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Some answers
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2011, 10:02:03 AM »
The oven is from Four Grand-Mere in France; it is the F950-B which means it has a 95cm interior and the inside of the dome is brick.  The dome is two pieces excluding the arch, and the bottom is also two pieces, plus the firebrick for the actual floor.  The exterior of the dome is Chamotte refractory concrete.  It came with two rolls of insulating blanket materials, and we will be adding to that and to the base also - that will be something for which we will solicit advice from this forum when we are ready to proceed.  I've done most of the research but that's not my comfort zone, it's my husband's.  He's not much for computer forums, but will be joining me online at some point to learn from the experts here.  

Performance and durability, quality of materials, and ease of installation were all considerations, of course.  One additional thing that was really important to us for the inside installation was that the interior of the oven be brick, purely for esthetic reasons.  Staring into a concrete dome just doesn't have the same feel inside the house, for us.  That really limited our choices.  We are local to both Mugnaini and Forno Bravo, and we visited both of them a couple times.  We also (just for the "what the heck" of it) contacted a few of the Italian companies for quotes.  We looked very seriously at the Cirigliano Forni import because I have a good impression of it from Tony's in SF, and because they offer a "core" version that would have been a more reasonable solution than a fully-complete Italian imported dome, and would work for our install since the oven itself (exterior) will be hidden.  We got an initial quote that stretched our budget but we were going to make it work, though the logistics of moving the core which comes in one VERY HEAVY piece was worrying my husband a lot.  Then we got to the ordering and discovered that they'd made an error in the original shipping quote, and the cost of shipping had tripled.  At that point one of the members of this forum suggested we look at the Four Grand-Mere ovens, and it turned out that we had a distributor less than half an hour from us.  The logistics of moving and installing the FGM oven was far more appealing to my husband, and the price was within our budget.   The FGM distributor turned out to be just the nicest and most helpful couple and they demonstrated the oven for us and made it an easy decision, so the whole thing just came together.  

I've attached a photo showing the seam in the dome, and a couple showing the interior - these photos are all of smaller ovens than the one we bought, they are his display and one he had dismantled when we originally visited.  

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2011, 12:40:51 PM »
That looks like a really nice oven. Your going to have a lot of fun when its all done especially since it's going to be in your house so you can use it rain or shine. Lovin' the low dome. If it's not to much trouble could you measure the center floor to dome height?

Offline Matthew

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2011, 05:19:52 PM »
That looks like a really nice oven. Your going to have a lot of fun when its all done especially since it's going to be in your house so you can use it rain or shine. Lovin' the low dome. If it's not to much trouble could you measure the center floor to dome height?

David,
I know that the F1030C has an extremely low dome @13", heat up time is suppose to be super fast.  The advantage of the 950 over the 1030, although slightly smaller is that it's 3" thick instead of 2".  You can make up for this though by adding an extra layer of insulation.  The 1030 is made to be portable so it is lighter.

Robyn, you made a great choice, these ovens are extremely high quality & are built to last.  FGM will be my next oven without question. 

Matt

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2011, 06:36:19 PM »
Looks like a interesting way to make a brick lined oven.  Seems like they form the dome from the bricks and then poor the castable right over it.
-Jeff

Offline flyboy4ual

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2011, 07:56:53 PM »
Nice oven!  How hot can it get, I can only find information that shows 300 degrees Celsius.  Any chance you can message me with the cost of this oven..

Thanks,

Scott D.

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2011, 09:00:41 PM »
Just a suggestion for when you fire it.  Make sure your AC/Heat unit has the fan turned to "on" but not "max" or "auto", and be careful with open doors and windows during the initial fire starting.  You want an overpressure in the house to encourage the smoke to go up the chimney until it reaches operating temperatures.

Great looking oven and the location seems perfect. 

Offline RobynB

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2011, 09:38:19 PM »
@BrickStoneOven:  Dome center height is ~9.5".  When I was measuring it, hubby came over and said "Damn, looks like it's too low for a turkey.  So much for Thanksgiving."   Sigh.  :-D  Thank you for the positive feedback, it is good to hear.

@ScottD:  I will PM you about cost.  The 300 celsius on the website threw me at first too.  But if you look at the specs, this oven is actually rated to temps over 1250-C!  However, the French seem to believe that one should cook pizza at, or below, 300-C.  Sigh again.  When we were having the demo, he actually heated the oven to about 500-Farenheit and then let it COOL DOWN to cook the pizza.  It was an experience  ;D

@Tscarborough:  Thanks for the suggestion - we (ahem) don't actually have heating or AC in our house.  I know, it's incredible.  We heat with a very efficient woodstove and we cool with open windows.  Crazy, huh?

@TXCraig1:  The venting will be right at the edge of our exterior wall, and will be vented at an angle to the exterior.  We plan to frame everything in that area with metal and hardiboard, and use double-wall pipe of course.  Additional suggestions always welcome.



« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 02:05:42 PM by RobynB »


Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2011, 09:40:00 PM »
You will want to open windows upwind then.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2011, 10:11:19 PM »
"Damn, looks like it's too low for a turkey.  So much for Thanksgiving."   Sigh.

No need to give up on the turkey. A deboned, brined turkey is one of my favorite things to roast in the WFO. Presentation might not be as spectacular as a whole bird, but the flavor and juiciness of poultry cooked high and fast is vastly superior IMO. And the rich gravy made from stock from the bones is the best part.
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Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2011, 11:04:17 PM »
@BrickStoneOven:  Dome center height is ~9.5".

Holy crap that's low.

Offline RobynB

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2011, 02:07:51 PM »
Moving the questions to a separate post as I think they got lost under all the replies:

And now our first questions, on the topic of insulation.  1)  How important is it (if at all) for the insulation to be even all the way around?  Meaning, can we do the basic all the way around, and then put extra where we have room for it?  Seems like I've seen others do that (wrap it in the blankets, etc, then fill the exterior enclosure with vermiculite or whatever).  Suggestions regarding additional insulation?  It came with two bundles of what they are calling "rock wool" which I believe to be what I've seen here referred to as insulating blankets.  There is one large piece of plain "wool" that he said would wrap twice (I believe) around the dome, and then a second bundle that is the wool with a reflective metal sheet (like foil) attached that goes as the last layer.  We planned to use all of that and then fill the space between the wrapped oven and the walls of the rectangular outside enclosure with vermiculite or similar as recommended - yes?  Or ?? 

2)  Our stand will be concrete.  Should we do anything additional between the concrete top of the stand and the insulation base that came with the oven?  It seems like I recall Mugnaini talking about putting sand under the insulation to be a "heat sink" but I don't see anything about that anywhere else? 

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2011, 02:39:06 PM »
Holy crap that's low.

What is the internal diameter? 32 or 33"? If so, 9.5" height would be right in line with Marco's 3.4/1 ratio.

CL
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Offline carbon

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2011, 02:49:06 PM »
 Should we do anything additional between the concrete top of the stand and the insulation base that came with the oven?  It seems like I recall Mugnaini talking about putting sand under the insulation to be a "heat sink" but I don't see anything about that anywhere else?  
I don't see any point in adding more thermal mass under the insulation.  If anything, I would add additional rigid insulation there if you were planning on additional insulation to the dome.

edit:  perhaps a thin layer of sand/clay mixture can be used as a leveler/filler when placing the oven on the concrete stand.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 03:47:31 PM by carbon »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2011, 02:49:23 PM »
Robyn,

I'm curious how they suggest making the connection between the flue pipe and the double-wall chimney pipe. It looks like, from the specs, that the flue pipe is 155mm or just slightly larger than 6". I ask because I have a similar issue today. I'm working on the best way to connect a 250mm flue (just under 10") to 10" double-wall chimney. I'm planning on using a 10" single wall to double wall adapter, and it is a really tight fit as you can imagine, it's also not as heavy duty as I would like. Your connection might be a little harder given the double wall will be larger and maybe difficult to get a tight seal? Do they reccomended a custom made connection?

Thanks,
Craig
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Offline RobynB

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Re: Oven is here - guess this means we're really doing this!
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2011, 02:49:34 PM »
It is 95cm = 37.5" diameter inside the dome.