Author Topic: Forget the scale-Use your eyeball! (Read 2750 times)

scott123 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 27, 2011, 03:39:33 AM »

Pphh! You guys are your eyes/eyeballs. Talk about overcomplicating things!

Do you really need to see to make pizza? I do it all blindfolded. That's the true essence right there.

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #21 on:** May 27, 2011, 08:09:04 AM »

Scott is this you?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeP6gDFN-cg" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeP6gDFN-cg</a>

How about this one?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ju6dxFMeqg" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ju6dxFMeqg</a>

Pete-zza · « **Reply #22 on:** May 27, 2011, 09:12:26 AM »

Chau and Steve,

The forum actually has a blind member, the blind meat cutter (who also happens to be named Steve), who, as noted at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9309.msg80563.html#msg80563, has been making pizza and many other things for years. At first, I thought that he was pulling the forum's proverbial leg. But, after few PM exchanges, in which we discussed some of the technology now available to blind users of the Internet (mainly screen reading software), I came to accept what he was saying about his blindness as true (he said he was born blind). Steve also said he was into chacuterie, beer making, and wine making. The biggest problem he was having with his pizzas (his favorite was the NY style) was loading them onto the pizza stone in his oven (he was using a metal peel). He was making 12" pizzas on a 15" stone. He said he wanted to make larger pizzas. He told me that the first time he slid a pizza on his stone he missed half the stone and his guide dog had a snack from what fell on the floor. His technique when putting a pie on the stone was to touch the stone for a fraction of a second to get good and familiar where the stone was and then slide the pizza onto the stone. He said he wanted a beautiful pizza, not an oblong one. We never did discuss how he made his dough. I did wonder, however, whether there was such a thing as a talking Braille scale.

Peter

Essen1 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 27, 2011, 03:41:40 PM »

Peter,

Actually there is such a thing as a talking scale:

http://www.amazon.com/ila-Talking-Kitchen-Scale/dp/B000MQZN18

wucactus1 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 27, 2011, 08:23:48 PM »

Here are some pics...More to come

wucactus1 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 27, 2011, 08:24:49 PM »

wucactus1 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 27, 2011, 08:26:07 PM »

crumbs again...I apologize on the dump...

wucactus1 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 27, 2011, 08:30:41 PM »

disaster pie...this is what im having for dinner in about 10 minutes

wucactus1 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 27, 2011, 08:32:28 PM »

one last post some extra crumb shots from my first blind pie

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #29 on:** May 28, 2011, 11:20:16 AM »

Peter, as I posted the links to those vids, I did wonder if we actually had any blind or visually impaired pizza makers on the forum. I'm always amazed at how skillfull folks are who are physically handicapped in some way. It's ironic to me that "handicapped" people can sometimes perform certain task even better than those who don't have the same physical handicap. It's a matter of practicing correctly. To use handicaps as an analogy, baking pizza in the home environment is challenging b/c of the numerous "handicaps" we face with the lack of proper equipment and ingredients. I have always thought it most difficult to make a great pizza in the home oven and we have so many members who do it seemingly effortlessly. I'm sure the commercial environment poses it's own challenges as well.

Wu, I think you did a fantastic job considering you did it by eyeballing the ingredients and by feel AND baked it in the home oven. Sorry if I missed it, but what flour blend are you using lately? Is it a KABF blended with another weaker flour?

Chau

wucactus1 · « **Reply #30 on:** May 28, 2011, 12:16:46 PM »

Thanks Chau...It was awesome...Im actually having pizza with someone in louisville tomorrow who has two outdoor pompeii ovens...They want me to bring over some dough share some tricks and generally just have a good time, Im excited. I have never used a wfo before and the anticipation is mounting. I am currently using a 70+/- Hydration blend of Bouncer HG flour and granoro farnia 00 at around a 60(hg)/40(00)-70/30. These pies are using roughly 10% starter for a 10/12 hour rise at 75-80 degrees. This set of experiments has taught me the value of minimal kneading, bulk rising and then careful minimal balling. I studied naturally risen and tried to use AM techniques when I comes to handling and I think its paying off. I have also made some tartine inspired blind bread...Pics will be posted in the tartine thread this afternoon.

About the WFO...will my current dough ratios works or will the Bouncer Malted flour burn too quickly(im assuming the wfo is different than the Home oven even though cook times are currently similar). If so should I just reverse the porportions or go completely 00...Im making the dough tomorrow morning and will be commensing vast amount of research until then...any more help and or comments would be great
Thanks
d

Tscarborough · « **Reply #31 on:** May 28, 2011, 12:19:20 PM »

I don't put anything in my dough to assist browning, but I also do not make any changes between WFO dough and kitchen dough. I would think you will be fine, but you have to work quick with a 90 second pizza.

wucactus1 · « **Reply #32 on:** May 28, 2011, 12:22:12 PM »

Awesome...Ill keep that in mind. Ill continue to do research and maybe even two batches one 00 and one blended, But I am concerned that the high amount of HG flour will cause quick burning. The pizza in my home oven cook at anywhere from 1.5-2minutes so I know about quick movement...in the home oven atleast.

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #33 on:** May 28, 2011, 12:35:54 PM »

Quote from: wucactus1 on May 28, 2011, 12:16:46 PM

Thanks Chau...It was awesome...Im actually having pizza with someone in louisville tomorrow who has two outdoor pompeii ovens...They want me to bring over some dough share some tricks and generally just have a good time, Im excited. I have never used a wfo before and the anticipation is mounting. I am currently using a 70+/- Hydration blend of Bouncer HG flour and granoro farnia 00 at around a 60(hg)/40(00)-70/30. These pies are using roughly 10% starter for a 10/12 hour rise at 75-80 degrees. This set of experiments has taught me the value of minimal kneading, bulk rising and then careful minimal balling. I studied naturally risen and tried to use AM techniques when I comes to handling and I think its paying off. I have also made some tartine inspired blind bread...Pics will be posted in the tartine thread this afternoon.

About the WFO...will my current dough ratios works or will the Bouncer Malted flour burn too quickly(im assuming the wfo is different than the Home oven even though cook times are currently similar). If so should I just reverse the porportions or go completely 00...Im making the dough tomorrow morning and will be commensing vast amount of research until then...any more help and or comments would be great
Thanks
d

Wu, you are proving to be a much quicker learner than I.

If you care to know, after an exhaustive year and a half of endless experimenting, I myself have somewhat settled on the same technique. Moderately high hydration, minimal hand kneading, 24h RT or CF bulk, and minimal/gentle reballing.

About the WFO, it depends on what temps your friend is baking at and how big his oven is. If he is baking really hot at 900F+, then you may have some burning issues. If he also has a lot of room, I'd try baking further from the fire. Bring your IR thermometer and shoot for a 750-800F on the hearth max if using the same flour. Look for a cooler spot on the floor. If he bakes with cooler temps, then you can bake closer to the fire.

You can also reverse your flour ratios but you may need to drop your hydration by a few % points. Find out what temps your friend likes to bake out and make dough accordingly. If he bakes hot, I would make 2 balls of dough of different formulas to see how they react. The first experience of baking in the WFO is an awesome one. You'll have a great time. I still remember how generous Bill was to have me bake a pizza in his oven. It was a real treat for me.

Chau

wucactus1 · « **Reply #34 on:** May 28, 2011, 04:55:08 PM »

Thanks tran for the tips. I don't have an ir thermometer and they do t either...all they said was it runs from 800-1000...a very big range that I'm assuming is an assumption. With this said I think I'm going to make 4 balls two of the original blend and then two using just 00, or should I do a 70/30-80/20 blend of 00 hg. Whatever you guys advise I'll do. I know he has two ovens of decent size if this helps. He also has a Woodstone mobile for his business, but I'm sure we aren't using it. They are also openin a woodfired sit down restaurant in a month so I need tO not fall on my face lol so everyones advise is extremely valuable to me at this point. I need reassurance!

pizzablogger · « **Reply #35 on:** May 28, 2011, 05:42:36 PM »

David, very nice crumb shots on those pizzas!

Looking forward to hearing about your initial exploits with the WFO.

Their 800-1000° mention is likely the range from the oven (800ish) to the air above the pizza closer to the dome (1000ish) --K

parallei · « **Reply #36 on:** May 28, 2011, 06:59:03 PM »

Must be the odd man out

I've settled on certain dough weights for the two sizes of pies that I typically make and I always use the scale. I also always use the dough tools if I want to try something different. The scale is quick to use and it meets my main criteria of not being another thing to clean! Though I could "eyeball" or feel the right amount of water to add to a given pile of flour, I'm pretty sure I couldn't eyeball the pile of flour needed to make four 12" pies with the TF I like. For me, the "art" comes in to play after the ingredients are mixed. That "art" would be dough handling and controlling the fermentation (still working on that!).

Don't get me wrong, I think it is wonderful that folks can do it all by eye and feel. However, I sure am grateful that the folks who started the journey into pizza making that is reflected in pizzamaking.com recorded there findings in a "scientific" manner. I'm also glad that folks continue to record and share their recipes using baker percentages. If they didn't, I'd still be making crappy pies

wucactus1 · « **Reply #37 on:** May 29, 2011, 04:21:12 PM »

made four 100% 00 dough balls at roughly 65/67% and then made 2 70/30(HG/00) dough balls, their making some pizza as well as some mozz, Its going to be a party! Im excited to meet these people talk pizza and more importantly what pizza means for our town. Im charging the good camera so Ill take tons of pictures!

wucactus1 · « **Reply #38 on:** May 30, 2011, 05:35:04 PM »

Had the party and It was awesome. We ended up making around eight pizzas in the wfo. Made some of the 100% 00 pies and then the Blend with HG and 00 and the HG/00 in my opinion did alot better, not much but there was considerably more lift and the crumb was slightly lighter and this could be because the HG/00 was at around 70/75 HR and the 00 was 65...We had Marniara, Margheritas, and some pizzas with Spicy capicola. The Mozz. was made that day fresh by them and the sea salt and OO they were using was exquisite...The sea salt was Maldon, but I cant remember the OO brand. There was also appetizers, consisiting of a rosemary basil focaccia and Then a grape focaccia, which had fennel and grapes in, it was amazing!
Mainly the night was spent taking turns, making pizzas in the oven and filled with constant talk of pizza, ranging from methods to the philosophies that we come to represent. There pizza was excellent and My pizza was excellent. We are using different methods that are garnering different results, but both are respectable and when they open up their place in Louisville I will be one of the first people there to critique and make sure nothing is lost, but I'm not worried they have a good concept and good heads on their shoulders.
The night also came with some learning experiences, one being the actual use of the oven, I got a crash course in the utility peel and the methodology surrounding oven maintenance. One other thing that actually shocked me is that consistently across the board, pie after pie the came out just as they do in the Home oven, looking and tasting very similar...It is both a relief and shocker that I am actually able to achieve somewhat of Neapolitan pizza without huge wood oven. Granted the home oven somewhat requires more work and is no where near as cool and as soon as I am able to build one you better bet concrete and bricks will be flying, but disparate times call for disparate measures...and I am disparate for good pizza.
Despite making loads of pizzas, there was to much good conversation and well good pizza to stop and take very many photos, but here I what I got,The crumb was great, but not as great as I have gotten from the Home oven and I attribute this to overproofing by an 1.5 or so...We didnt get started until later than I anticipated, but the pizza was Fantastic, hopefully they'll invite me over again soon!

wucactus1 · « **Reply #39 on:** May 30, 2011, 05:36:28 PM »

oh forgot to add he is using the plans for pompeii oven from forna bravo website in his pizza oven(42") and then he also has a barrel bread oven, but we didnt fire that up!

Author Topic: Forget the scale-Use your eyeball! (Read 2750 times)

parallei