Evolving thoughts on a laminated cracker crust

[norma427]

Norma
I baked these in my home oven..on quarry tiles....I still cover the very top rack with the tiles so the top of the oven traps all the heat...it kind of makes an oven in an oven.  While doing all kinds of experiments on the cracker crust...I wondered why it was called a cracker crust, and found the explanation by Matz.  It seemed as good an explanation as I've ever been able to find.  There simply is not alot of information on lamination and cracker crust.  Never in a million years would I have thought this was possible at home, but this website kinda urges you on.....and I know "YOU" know what I mean.

John

John,

Thanks for telling how you baked your laminated cracker crusts in your home oven.  Great job that you did do a successful lamination of a cracker crust at home.  That sure will help other members that want to try a laminated cracker crust pizza. I know how this forum keeps urging anyone that is interested in trying different pizzas or even a style of pizza many different ways.

Norma

[fazzari]

John, after thinking about the lamination process, I thought I would post what it reminds me of- Croissant dough.   Croissants have to be one of my absolute favorite things to eat.  I could eat them for breakfast, as sandwiches for lunch, and now, thanks to you, as pizza for dinner   The real difference would seem to be leaving out the butter in favor of Crisco, which doesnt have a strong flavor.

Croissant Dough
Ingredients

1 1/4 teaspoons active dry yeast
3 tablespoons warm water (110 degrees F/45 degrees C)
1 teaspoon white sugar
1 3/4 cups all-purpose flour
2 teaspoons white sugar
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
2/3 cup warm milk
2 tablespoons vegetable oil
2/3 cup unsalted butter, chilled
1 egg
1 tablespoon water
Directions

Combine yeast, warm water, and 1 teaspoon sugar. Allow to stand until creamy and frothy.
Measure flour into a mixing bowl. Dissolve 2 teaspoons sugar and salt in warm milk. Blend into flour along with yeast and oil. Mix well; knead until smooth. Cover, and let rise until over triple in volume. Deflate gently, and let rise again until doubled. Deflate and chill 20 minutes.
Massage butter until pliable, but not soft and oily. Pat dough into a 14 x 8 inch rectangle. Smear butter over top two thirds, leaving 1/4 inch margin all around. Fold unbuttered third over middle third, and buttered top third down over that. Turn 90 degrees, so that folds are to left and right. Roll out to a 14 x 6 inch rectangle. Fold in three again. Sprinkle lightly with flour, and put dough in a plastic bag. Refrigerate 2 hours. Unwrap, sprinkle with flour, and deflate gently. Roll to a 14 x 6 inch rectangle, and fold again. Turn 90 degrees, and repeat. Wrap, and chill 2 hours.
To shape, roll dough out to a 20 x 5 inch rectangle. Cut in half crosswise, and chill half while shaping the other half. Roll out to a 15 x 5 inch rectangle. Cut into three 5 x 5 inch squares. Cut each square in half diagonally. Roll each triangle lightly to elongate the point, and make it 7 inches long. Grab the other 2 points, and stretch them out slightly as you roll it up. Place on a baking sheet, curving slightly. Let shaped croissants rise until puffy and light. In a small bowl, beat together egg and 1 tablespoon water. Glaze croissants with egg wash.
Bake in a preheated 475 degrees F (245 degrees C) oven for 12 to 15 minutes.


Of course, I will try your current recipe without alterations.  You're pioneering an interesting new style (which could conceivably be called Croissant Crust), and thank you so much for sharing it.
regards,
Brian

Maybe with a little experimenting, YOURS will be the croissant crust.  I love croissants too!!!!

John

[tinroofrusted]

Hey, looks like a great job....what flour did you use?..How hot was your oven?  The bottoms look good, they look nice and tender.  How were they to eat, crispy?, chewy? tender?

I was super happy with these pizzas.  I used Conagra Mello Judith flour which is a pretty strong bread flour.  I baked at 525 degrees just like you did.  I have a pizza stone in the oven set around the middle of the oven.  I didn't use convection.  The one thing that I didn't prepare for was that the pizzas cooked quicker than the cheese melted. I usually but fairly large chunks of mozzarella on the pizzas, and with my normal recipe there is sufficient time to melt them, but these didn't have time to melt with the big chunks. So I will probably shred the cheese next time. 

The bottoms of these pizzas were really cool. All these little tiny bubbles. I've never seen a pizza like that before. The flavor was really delicious. Very crisp bottom, tender and chewy on top. I liked it just as much as my regular dough which is based on Mozza's dough.  In fact, the next time I make pizza, I am going to make this dough.  As I mentioned, my daughter was pretty wild about it, and she's one of my best customers.  I will probably increase the salt by say half a percent just to see the difference.

So anyway, for my more or less first time making this type of pizza, it was a great success. I bought some of those dough roller rings on Friday so I will try those out the next time I make this dough. 

Regards,

TinRoof

[fazzari]

Just so I would know how they baked up, I brought the rest of my hand rolled skins to work with me tonight.  After we shut the doors we started baking.  We had a feast....the skins were fabulous...in fact, a vote was taken and they were voted better than the sheeted skins we normally use.  Now, I have a problem!!  I have to figure out why they were better.  I did increase the hydration to make them easier to roll with a rolling pin, and I did increase the salt because I like the flavor it gives.  I always learn more by doing stuff at home than I could ever learn in the restaurant.  The one crumb shot below shows the essence of a cracker crust......many, many tiny pinholes...and this is how you get a crisp crust with soft lusciousness above that.
john

[tinroofrusted]

Those pizzas look delicious!  How much extra salt did you go with?  I am going to whip up a batch of dough this morning and I think I will go to 2.5% salt to see what that's like. 

One more question. How important is it to let the dough develop overnight? I know with my other recipes that it is really important for flavor development, so I probably answered my own question. But I'd be interested to hear if you have ever baked them the same day. 

Which reminds me, along the same topic, a while ago our fearless leader Steve posted a recipe for an "instant" cracker crust that he whipped up after work while pressed for time. I tried that recipe and it was darned good. There wasn't any yeast in that dough I believe.  (I went back and did a search and here it is for reference:)

Somewhere on the forum someone said that Shakey's used nothing but flour, water, salt, and (I believe) oil. No leavening agents were used (i.e., no yeast, etc.) and the dough was made and used immediately.

So, tonight my wife and I did the big "handoff" with the kids... I came home from work, she left for work. Nothing was prepped for dinner and mine and the kids choices were canned soup or cereal. You get the drift.

So, I decided that this would be a good opportunity to make a "Shakey's" style pizza.

My recipe:

16 oz. high-gluten flour
6.5 oz. water
1 tbsp. vegetable shortening
1 tsp. salt

I threw all the ingredients into my food processor and "mixed" until it had the consistency of cornmeal. I dumped the "dough" onto the counter, pressed into a ball, and immediately rolled out thin (this took awhile... the dough did not want to roll out, so I had to let it rest for brief periods of time). Once it was rolled out, I placed in a greased cutter pan and par-baked for 4 minutes at 500 degrees F. After the par-bake, I added sauce, cheese, and pepperoni. The pizza was then baked for about 10 minutes longer until the crust (and bottom) was a golden brown. The pizza was allowed to cool on a wire rack.

The pizza was very good in my opinion. It did not have the yeasty or fermented taste of the DKM thin crust, but it did have a VERY crisp and cracker-like (saltine-like) texture with a clean taste. Actually, it's exactly the way I remember Shakey's pizza!

So, long story short, this one is a winner! And, from start to finish, the pizza was done in under 30 minutes! 

Best regards,

TinRoof

[fazzari]

Those pizzas look delicious!  How much extra salt did you go with?  I am going to whip up a batch of dough this morning and I think I will go to 2.5% salt to see what that's like. 

One more question. How important is it to let the dough develop overnight? I know with my other recipes that it is really important for flavor development, so I probably answered my own question. But I'd be interested to hear if you have ever baked them the same day. 

Which reminds me, along the same topic, a while ago our fearless leader Steve posted a recipe for an "instant" cracker crust that he whipped up after work while pressed for time. I tried that recipe and it was darned good. There wasn't any yeast in that dough I believe.  (I went back and did a search and here it is for reference:)

Best regards,

TinRoof

Actually the use of 2% salt was an increase from what I normally use and I think it made a real difference.
The texture of these skins just get better with age.  The three day old skins above were out of this world...and they were head and shoulders better than a 1 day old skin.  I think you would be very disappointed with a same day skin....have had to do it in emergency situations and it is not good.

John

[fazzari]

Here's an experiment I did using All Trumps flour (it's the best flour I've used to date).  I haven't tried laminating a real, real low hydrated dough, using the rolling pin techniques "and" using All Trumps flour.  So, this pizza is from a 20 ounce sheet of dough I laminated using 6 layers.  The hydration rate is 38% plus 4% oil.  I didn't have many pizza fixins in the fridge, so this is topped with a couple eggs, a couple ounces of mozzarella, lots of asparagus, onion and various seasonings.  And by the way, this piece of dough is approximately 96 square inches and weighs 9.4 ounces...so, thickness factor just under .1.
John