Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 608060 times)

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Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2875 on: December 09, 2015, 04:10:10 AM »
It's called "The Sardine Effect"   :P

Monsieur Sub, have you ever been to the sourdough heritage library of Puratos in Belgium?

I invite everyone to take a look at these amazing videos made available by the Puratos sourdough library.







Here is a virtual tour of the sourdough library (make sure to view the available videos for each sourdough). This is a gold mine for any sourdough lover. Good day!

http://www.poppr.be/virtualtour/puratos/?nc=true#p=scene_p1
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/



Offline Don Luigi

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A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2877 on: December 09, 2015, 07:26:37 AM »
Omid and Sub,
thanks for those great links. You two are a true fountain of Pizza/Baking wisdom...Thanks for that!
On a neapolitan pizza journey with Wood fired oven Pizza Party 70x70
My Pizza

Offline Pulcinella

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2878 on: December 09, 2015, 06:10:56 PM »
If I were to prepare a Caputo Pizzeria dough of 70% or higher hydration, and ferment it at natural room temperature for 18 to 24 hours, my dough balls would overextend circumferentially as wellóif each full-size dough tray contains 6 dough balls as shown in the picture of Anthony Mangierís dough balls, above. To avoid the pancake effect of high-hydration dough balls, I recommend placing 12 or, better yet, 15 balls in a dough tray of the same size. Of course, the dough balls will be hemmed in by one another and will stick to each other upon reaching maturation, but that should pose no problems so long as proper techniques are used to extract them. It is not anything complicated. At the end, you may even ironically find it easier to extract a slack dough ball out of a dough tray tightly packed with dough balls.

Let me make some observations. In my assessment, dough balls rise better and stronger when they are contiguous or adjoined. It seems to have a positive effect on the strength of dough balls. At last, I think putting 6 dough balls in a full-size dough tray is an inefficient use of space, especially in a high-volume pizzeria.

In re my observations, take a look at the pictures attached hereunder. The 1st and 2nd pictures show the Caputo Pizzeria dough balls (about 260-270 grams each) I made last Monday for a pizza party. The dough, which contained about 70% of hydration, was fermented for about 24 hours at natural room temperature. In contrast, the 3rd and 4th pictures show the Caputo Pizzeria dough balls (about 260-270 grams each) I prepared last Tuesday just for the sake of demonstration. The dough contained about the same hydration and was fermented for about the same amount of time. I used the same dough tray (14" by 21.5") for both sessions. Big difference!

Omid

Thatís a challenge proofing 12 or 15 sticky balls in one dough box. Iíll give it a try. I hope the dough balls donít get claustrophobic :'( Which ball I should take out first, second, third and so on? Is there a order I should follow? Thanks  :chef:
« Last Edit: December 09, 2015, 06:12:30 PM by Pulcinella »

Offline sub

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2879 on: December 10, 2015, 03:09:43 AM »
Look at the end of this video (password: pummarola)


https://vimeo.com/109229633 


Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2881 on: December 10, 2015, 06:39:32 AM »
If I were to prepare a Caputo Pizzeria dough of 70% or higher hydration, and ferment it at natural room temperature for 18 to 24 hours, my dough balls would overextend circumferentially as wellóif each full-size dough tray contains 6 dough balls as shown in the picture of Anthony Mangierís dough balls, above. To avoid the pancake effect of high-hydration dough balls, I recommend placing 12 or, better yet, 15 balls in a dough tray of the same size. Of course, the dough balls will be hemmed in by one another and will stick to each other upon reaching maturation, but that should pose no problems so long as proper techniques are used to extract them. It is not anything complicated. At the end, you may even ironically find it easier to extract a slack dough ball out of a dough tray tightly packed with dough balls.

Let me make some observations. In my assessment, dough balls rise better and stronger when they are contiguous or adjoined. It seems to have a positive effect on the strength of dough balls. At last, I think putting 6 dough balls in a full-size dough tray is an inefficient use of space, especially in a high-volume pizzeria.

In re my observations, take a look at the pictures attached hereunder. The 1st and 2nd pictures show the Caputo Pizzeria dough balls (about 260-270 grams each) I made last Monday for a pizza party. The dough, which contained about 70% of hydration, was fermented for about 24 hours at natural room temperature. In contrast, the 3rd and 4th pictures show the Caputo Pizzeria dough balls (about 260-270 grams each) I prepared last Tuesday just for the sake of demonstration. The dough contained about the same hydration and was fermented for about the same amount of time. I used the same dough tray (14" by 21.5") for both sessions. Big difference!

Omid

Thatís a challenge proofing 12 or 15 sticky balls in one dough box. Iíll give it a try. I hope the dough balls donít get claustrophobic :'( Which ball I should take out first, second, third and so on? Is there a order I should follow? Thanks  :chef:

Dear Pulcinella, I assure you, the dough balls will not feel "claustrophobic" so long as you overcome the phobia in yourself, build self-confidence, and develop skills. However, since almost everything in the process of dough production is either directly or indirectly interconnected in a long chain of causation, first you need to make sure that you understand how to properly formulate and accordingly mix your high-hydration dough per projections such as fluctuating room temperature, fermentation time-frame, and et cetera. Take it one step at a time. And, if 70% hydration, which I assume is your goal, proves to be too problematic to manage, then revert to lower hydrations and gradually progress toward higher hydrations as you develop skills. This has been my advice as an amateur pizzaiolo.

A couple of days ago, I prepared a large batch of pizza dough of about 69% hydration. This time, I arranged my dough balls 3 by 5 (i.e., in 3 rows of 5) as shown in the 1st and 2nd picture, below. At that point, the dough had already been fermented for about 22 hours at the natural room temperature (69-77ļF). For the sake of comparison, I juxtaposed the pictures with the ones from my reply #2864 in the previous page of this thread. Each dough ball in all the pictures weighs about 260-270 grams, and the same plastic dough tray (14" by 21.5") is used for the three batches. Good day!

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=14506.msg405667#msg405667

Omid
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 07:24:09 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2882 on: December 25, 2015, 06:04:40 PM »
Merry Christmas, everyone! Here are some pizzas (17-hour dough of about 70% hydration) I baked a couple of days ago in my almost impossible oven at home. Have a jolly day.

Omid
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2883 on: December 25, 2015, 06:06:26 PM »
Continued . . .
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/


Online TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2884 on: December 25, 2015, 06:32:47 PM »
Beautiful as always. A bit larger diameter than your norm?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline parallei

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2885 on: December 25, 2015, 07:00:50 PM »
............ I baked a couple of days ago in my almost impossible oven at home. Have a jolly day.

Omid

Not impossible in your talented hands, Omid.  A Jolly day to you too.

Offline pizzadaheim

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2886 on: December 26, 2015, 04:24:55 AM »

Hello Omid

The reason is your pies why i want to start making napoli pizza at home. So i will need your opinions about that small wood burning oven for home use. What do you think about pizzaioli serie? Is it a good idea to buy for making napoli pies?



http://www.steinofenhandel.de/5_Pizzaioli.html

Offline pizzadaheim

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2887 on: December 26, 2015, 04:26:37 AM »


Here is a video of how they build the oven

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2888 on: December 27, 2015, 06:44:49 AM »
Beautiful as always. A bit larger diameter than your norm?

Dear Craig, thank you!

When I looked at the pictures after the photo shoot, the same thought occurred to me. However, I am pretty sure that the diameter of each pizza was about 12 inches, for I did not stretch the garnished dough discs beyond the boundaries of my pizza peel, which is exactly 12 inches across. So, it might be some kind of optical illusion that the pizzas appear longer than 12 inches in diameter. Have a great New Year!

Omid

Not impossible in your talented hands, Omid.  A Jolly day to you too.

Dear Parallei, thank you for the compliment. Happy New Year!

Omid
« Last Edit: December 27, 2015, 06:58:19 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2889 on: December 27, 2015, 06:54:06 AM »
Hello Omid

The reason is your pies why i want to start making napoli pizza at home. So i will need your opinions about that small wood burning oven for home use. What do you think about pizzaioli serie? Is it a good idea to buy for making napoli pies?

http://www.steinofenhandel.de/5_Pizzaioli.html

Dear Pizzadaheim, unfortunately I have no basis to make an informed evaluation on the oven. In choosing a wood-fired oven for the purpose of baking Neapolitan pizzas, we are often advised to pay attention to the following factors: (1) the material out of which the oven is constructed, (2) construction methods and techniques, (3) thermal mass (4) insulation, (5) dome geometry, (6) dome height, (7) oven floor diameter, (8 ) door size in relation to the dome height and floor diameter, (9) the thermal conductivity of the oven floor, (10) how well the oven maintains the thermal balance between the dome and the floor, (11) the floor thermal recovery time, and etc. It is not an easy task to choose an oven.

You should also post your question, along with the link and the video, in the "Hearth Ovens" section of this forum (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?board=51.0) and ask for guidance. Happy New Year!

Omid
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pulcinella

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2890 on: December 30, 2015, 05:52:39 PM »
Cute video,

Napoli v. Deutschland


Offline Pulcinella

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2891 on: December 31, 2015, 05:02:40 PM »
New 50 Kalo video



Offline schold

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2892 on: December 31, 2015, 07:50:10 PM »
I need to visit Naples soon :pizza:
Cooking is not a recipe, it's a philosophy - unless it's pastry, then it's chemistry.

- Marco Pierre White

Offline Icelandr

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2893 on: January 02, 2016, 11:30:57 AM »
Omid, just a note of thanks for the information you have posted over the past 116 pages, yours and those who have added posts have made a great contribution to all who have read your thread. I have learned a lot,- not enough yet, but certainly have added to my knowledge.

A question or two if I may. I am restricted in part by a lack of proper oven (oven temp 690į below, 740į above), but am trying to make pizza as close to Napoletana as possible. I was intrigued with your room temperature fermentation so thought I would compare it to my usual protocol which is
453 g Caputo blue
278 g water
10 g salt
1.2 g active dry yeast
Bench 1 hr, fridge in bulk 24 hr, balls in fridge 48 hr 2 hr on bench and bake when 70į

As I looked at the amount of yeast to add to the room temperature ferment I was shocked and worried but very pleasantly surprised at the results. I used the same ingredients as above but using .1 gram of ADY
4 hours in bulk, 17.5 hours in balls, 69į at shaping. The results were very good, but the question came as I compared it to a thawed ball of refrigerater fermentation dough. How is the flavour affected by the two methods of fermentation? A search of the thread for flavour shows little mention so I would love to hear your thoughts.

My learning is slow, in part due to low "production" - we are a gleefully retired couple and eating my experimental pizzas, 2 just about every week is having an effect on the waistline, necessitating more and longer walks . . . We don't have a Delbar to assist. Having fun, getting better, just another year or two? To a "good" pizza? The hydration will get there as my hands learn their role.

Thanks again.
Greg

Offline SAUZER.ITALY

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2894 on: January 05, 2016, 07:46:38 AM »
IMID  ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^