Author Topic: Craig's Neapolitan Garage  (Read 264376 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #50 on: June 20, 2011, 10:27:55 AM »
Nice job, Craig.

What's different on the mushroom pie?  The mushrooms look a little rawer than usual.

Thanks, Scott.

Only the 33% shorter bake time, I think. I sliced them the same thickness, and I always put them on raw. I added a few shiitake this time, but they look about the same as the others. They didn't taste any less cooked.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #51 on: June 20, 2011, 10:33:56 AM »
Outstanding as always Craig.  Those certainly do look like your finest work.  I love the way your sauce looks.  Do you use any of the puree that comes in the can or just the tomatoes?  Also do you add any water to the sauce at all?

Thanks, Chau.

My youngest son always makes the sauce, and he can do it better than I can. Little turd won't tell me his secret either.  :-D

I know he pulls the stems and any skin off, takes out all the basil, and adds all the puree from the can. He doesn't add any water. Then he hits it with the stick blender lightly and seasons with a little sugar and salt. For a 35oz Cento Italian can (our favorite), he uses ~1Tbsp sugar and 1tsp salt. I think it tastes best if made a couple hours ahead.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2011, 10:36:50 AM »
I personally want to thank you for posting your entire method including the cooler proof.  People are rightfully wooed by the results, but only members such as yourself, help us newbies move foreward.  STFD, STFU and all kudos to you.  :-D :chef:

Thanks Gene.

Craig
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2011, 10:38:22 AM »
Thanks Matt, Andre, John, and Larry!

Craig
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2011, 10:41:36 AM »
You are killing me with those pictures!  I haven't had pizza for a few days and those pies sure do look like some of the finest pies I have seen.  ;D  Great job!  :chef:

Goodness, I don't want to kill you with my pictures.  :-D  Thank you for the kind words.

I know what you mean about not having pizza for a few days. I'm already hungry for it, and it hasn't been but 12 hours or so. I have a wedding to go to next weekend and Fourth of July at my parents house the next. It might be while before I get to bake again. Yikes!

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2011, 10:45:15 AM »
Thanks, Chau.

My youngest son always makes the sauce, and he can do it better than I can. Little turd won't tell me his secret either.  :-D

I know he pulls the stems and any skin off, takes out all the basil, and adds all the puree from the can. He doesn't add any water. Then he hits it with the stick blender lightly and seasons with a little sugar and salt. For a 35oz Cento Italian can (our favorite), he uses ~1Tbsp sugar and 1tsp salt. I think it tastes best if made a couple hours ahead.

CL

Chau, one other thought on the sauce -- I've cut the amount I use by half or more. In some cases, I'm only using 1/3 of what I did in the past. I can measure the exact amount if you are interested.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2011, 10:50:08 AM »
Hey Craig, I think your secret is the KID not the Acunto....!!
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline DrivenAgain

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2011, 12:39:18 PM »
Amazing looking pies, excellent leoparding.  Im using the same canned tomatoes but I dont season mine at all.  I have longer cook times than you so maybe that takes some of the acidity out.  I may try a pinch of sugar next time tho, thanks for your sons tip ;)

Jason

Offline ponzu

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #58 on: June 20, 2011, 04:55:54 PM »
Absolutely gorgious.  You....the....man.

Among other aspects of your perfection, the basil looks just perfectly wilted on that last margarita.
are you oiling the basil before or after dressing the pie?

AZ


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #59 on: June 20, 2011, 05:48:28 PM »
Absolutely gorgious.  You....the....man.

Among other aspects of your perfection, the basil looks just perfectly wilted on that last margarita.
are you oiling the basil before or after dressing the pie?

AZ

Thank you AZ. I give it a few swirls of oil as the last thing before it goes into the oven.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #60 on: June 20, 2011, 05:50:14 PM »
Amazing looking pies, excellent leoparding.  Im using the same canned tomatoes but I dont season mine at all.  I have longer cook times than you so maybe that takes some of the acidity out.  I may try a pinch of sugar next time tho, thanks for your sons tip ;)

Jason

Thanks Jason. We add the sugar and salt not for the acid specifically, but for the overall balance of the sauce, and because it seems to bring out more tomato flavor.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #61 on: June 20, 2011, 11:55:32 PM »
The pies you put out are incredible and I would devour all if I could!
 :chef:

Keep up the great work,those type of pies are so inspiring to look forward to make someday.
 :)
-Bill

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #62 on: June 21, 2011, 12:48:09 AM »
Thanks Jason. We add the sugar and salt not for the acid specifically, but for the overall balance of the sauce, and because it seems to bring out more tomato flavor.

CL

Craig, when I first started making pizza 2 years ago I did read about how many members were just using a bit of sugar and salt with plum tomatoes for their NP sauce.  I'll admit that I did not understand it at all.  After all, where the heck is the oregano? Isn't pizza sauce suppose to have oregano?  Eventually I worked my way up to using a bit of fresh garlic and a bit of olive oil.  For NP pies, I now use sugar to sweeten the sauce and a bit of salt to balance it as you eloquently put it.  It took me some time, but I do get it now.

Chau

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #63 on: June 21, 2011, 01:19:27 AM »
Craig, when I first started making pizza 2 years ago I did read about how many members were just using a bit of sugar and salt with plum tomatoes for their NP sauce.  I'll admit that I did not understand it at all.  After all, where the heck is the oregano? Isn't pizza sauce suppose to have oregano?  Eventually I worked my way up to using a bit of fresh garlic and a bit of olive oil.  For NP pies, I now use sugar to sweeten the sauce and a bit of salt to balance it as you eloquently put it.  It took me some time, but I do get it now.

Chau

Chau,

Interesting you pointed this out.As time has gone by,depending on what brand of tomatoes in the can I use,I'm finding more and more,I like less added.I just want that super tomato taste more than anything.

When I use the Centos can of Italian style whole peeled tomatoes,I might add a little bit of sugar and salt after I crush them up.It does not even need any basil,oregano,garlic,or other powders added,like a puree sauce does.

With most purees,I cannot make a decent sauce without adding a whole bunch of stuff...they are normally bitter and a bit acidic in general.

Yet,with a few certain brands of whole peeled or plum tomatoes in the can,where I have to crush/puree them up,Its so good by itself,I find myself just using the little salt or sugar lightly,to make it less acidic and sweeter.

After the pizza comes out,I will sometimes sprinkle the oregano flakes or some garlic powder over the top of the pie,and it works well depending on the pie I make.















-Bill

Offline jjdec05

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #64 on: June 21, 2011, 06:17:21 PM »
Your pies continue to look amazing!

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #65 on: June 21, 2011, 06:43:20 PM »
Thank you JJ.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline wheelman

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #66 on: June 23, 2011, 08:48:11 AM »
Craig,
i've been working with a similar routine exploring the possibility of improving the softness of the crumb compared to the UPN formula.  the issues that i'm finding are: less oven spring and weaker, almost too weak to drag onto the peel, dough.  the second issue can be addressed by opening a smaller disc and then doing an additional stretch on the peel (thanks omid!).  I'm wondering how the proofing time affects both of these variables and if better handling dough means less oven spring. 
on my last two bakes i have used 62-63% hydration, 2.2% salt, 1.6% ischia with roughly 24 hours of total fermentation at 65F. last night i got stuck and only had 3 hours after balling up so i did that at 73 and then 80 for an hour.  I'm not sure the crumb is that much different from the preferment method.  I also seem to have this problem every summer - maybe the table temp and outside temp affects the opening too. 
this weekend i'm going to make this dough and a UPN dough for a direct comparison. 
any advice you have on proofing times for my comparison would be appreciated!
this was a 250g dough baked at 825 last night.


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #67 on: June 23, 2011, 02:11:21 PM »
Bill - that's a beautiful pie - magizing cover stuff there!

I'm really liking my recipe similar to yours above with fermentation at 60-64F for 18 hours in bulk and another 6 at 75-77F in balls. I don't think I'd reccomend a different fermentation time/temp. As for the UPN dough, there are so many variables that can change things. I'm thinking 18 hours for the preferment at 75-77F. 4-6 hours bulk at the 60-64F and another 6 in balls at 75-77F.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline wheelman

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #68 on: June 23, 2011, 02:50:25 PM »
I'm on it!  i'll try that and have a direct comparison.  i'm really interested in the difference in how soft the crust is between the two.
thanks!
bill

Offline gtsum2

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #69 on: June 23, 2011, 07:15:30 PM »
very nice looking pies...that oven is a monster

Offline wheelman

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #70 on: June 25, 2011, 09:14:47 AM »
craig,
I have my schedule all worked out for my weekend showdown.  one quick question:
when making the UPN dough with preferment, i've noticed that over about 12 hours it starts falling back to where it starts volume wise.  that's why i've decreased the preferment time compared to your recipe.  does that matter?  i understand that you're in effect feeding it again when you make the dough. 
thanks
bill

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #71 on: June 25, 2011, 10:03:05 AM »
I think when it starts falling back is about when you're ready to go. I don't think you want to go hours later. A couple, but not 6+

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline wheelman

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #72 on: June 25, 2011, 10:12:27 AM »
thanks, that's been my approach.  i'll watch it closely this time to be sure.

Offline wheelman

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #73 on: June 27, 2011, 10:19:25 AM »
quick report: you are right, the UPN formula makes a tougher crust than the neo standard formula.  my two doughs converged at t-6 hours for balling and proofed at RT.  the UPN dough was blown up and airy, the neo dough was shiny and not very expanded.  first pic is at 3 hours into final proof, second is 6 hours.
the UPN dough handled like it looks, the both opened nicely and both plenty strong for the twist and slide move onto the peel. Bake was really different though. the UPN rose really nice with a puffy rim, the neo didn't have much spring at all.  but the chew was definitely much softer on the neo.  i need to figure out a combination of these two doughs!

Offline wheelman

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #74 on: June 27, 2011, 10:21:43 AM »
here's what i did with the extra mini doughs - 85g or so.