Author Topic: Craig's Neapolitan Garage  (Read 187480 times)

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Offline Janus

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1520 on: January 07, 2014, 01:36:30 AM »
I've spent the last 40 minutes reading through this thread in reverse (i started at the wrong end), I think my stomach is about 1/3 the way through eating itself.
Need to get home and make some dough, in a couple of days i can start crying about how far from your pizza mine are.  Still, at least i'll be eating pizza...

I have a question regarding the dough mix vs ambient temperature and humidity;  When my wife and I did a pizza lesson in Italy the chef said to mix the water, salt and yeast first, then to add the flour until it reached the right consistency.  The reason for not measuring the flour by weight exactly (the yeast/water/salt was measured exactly), was that the amount of flour needed changes depending on ambient humidity and temperature.  Craig are you measuring the exact amount of flour to be used each time, and if so do you adjust it based on the variables i've mentioned, or do you find you use the same ratios irrespective? (sorry if you have already answered this)

Great pizza, dieting sucks for you more than most when you can turn out this quality of food.


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1521 on: January 07, 2014, 09:05:50 AM »
I measure the flour exactly. I've not seen anything that makes me believe I need to make any adjustments in flour quantity for changes in humidity. The flour will change slightly with changes in temperature, all other things being equal, but that is a function of the yeast % changing and not the flour changing due to changes in the temp per se.
Pizza is not bread.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1522 on: January 07, 2014, 09:27:44 AM »
I have a question regarding the dough mix vs ambient temperature and humidity;  When my wife and I did a pizza lesson in Italy the chef said to mix the water, salt and yeast first, then to add the flour until it reached the right consistency.  The reason for not measuring the flour by weight exactly (the yeast/water/salt was measured exactly), was that the amount of flour needed changes depending on ambient humidity and temperature.  Craig are you measuring the exact amount of flour to be used each time, and if so do you adjust it based on the variables i've mentioned, or do you find you use the same ratios irrespective? (sorry if you have already answered this)
Janus,

From my reading on the subject, the practice in Naples was (and may still be) to base everything on the water, the amount of which was fixed. However, the amount of flour would vary based on the season and varying ambient temperatures. For example, in the summer, the amount of flour would be reduced in order to slow down the fermentation process. Conversely, in the winter, the amount of flour would be increased to speed up the fermentation process. The objective was to end up with dough that would be usable at about the same time each day. I do not recall reading about adjustments because of humidity. But it was common practice to adjust the amount of yeast, or starter, as well as salt in order to fine tune the fermentation process. All of this took a great deal of skill since everything was done at ambient room temperature.

Peter

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1523 on: January 07, 2014, 11:56:00 AM »
Janus,

.... I do not recall reading about adjustments because of humidity. ...

Peter

I remember reading one of the highly prized Italian/ NY  Neo pizza guys mention humidity, but not Craig. It makes me wonder if humidity is the missing link in the whole 'Neo pizza secret dough recipe'? Lol. Next the Masters will be talking about the phase of the moon or when high tide happens in Venice?
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1524 on: January 07, 2014, 12:47:46 PM »
Janus,

From my reading on the subject, the practice in Naples was (and may still be) to base everything on the water, the amount of which was fixed. However, the amount of flour would vary based on the season and varying ambient temperatures. For example, in the summer, the amount of flour would be reduced in order to slow down the fermentation process. Conversely, in the winter, the amount of flour would be increased to speed up the fermentation process. The objective was to end up with dough that would be usable at about the same time each day. I do not recall reading about adjustments because of humidity. But it was common practice to adjust the amount of yeast, or starter, as well as salt in order to fine tune the fermentation process. All of this took a great deal of skill since everything was done at ambient room temperature.

Peter
Peter,
Doesn't member November have a calculator somewhere for humidity?
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Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1525 on: January 07, 2014, 03:15:03 PM »
did you look at the calculator that was posted the other day?  It boxes in it to enter temp,  time needed,  efffect of salt,  and temp.   Have not used it,  but looks cool.  http://pizza2calc.altervista.org/

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1526 on: January 07, 2014, 04:16:21 PM »
Peter,
Doesn't member November have a calculator somewhere for humidity?
Bob,

Yes, you are correct. As a matter of fact, earlier this afternoon, as I was searching some of November's posts, I stumbled across this thread that discusses the effects of humidity on dough:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6492.msg55673.html#msg55673

For years, I have read many things about humidity in the context of dough making but not in the specific context of the Neapolitan style. My thinking has long been that humidity can affect flour over a long period of time, causing the moisture content to increase or decrease depending on environmental factors, but that the relative humidity at the time of making the dough did not have much of an effect on the dough itself. Yet, I have many reports from members who make dough as part of their work who say that humidity does affect the dough.

Peter

Offline Janus

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1527 on: January 07, 2014, 06:23:26 PM »
Thanks for the feedback.
I've got my dough to a pretty consistent level after over a year of making.  It's easy to fall into the trap now though of blaming the obstruction in improving my pizza on the lack of WFO or higher temp ovens, however reading this thread i think i still have plenty of work to do to understand the dough properly and experiment to get the best results using what i'm currently working with.
I guess you make enough dough, you get a "feel" for it.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1528 on: January 07, 2014, 07:01:42 PM »
I guess you make enough dough, you get a "feel" for it.

There is no substitute for experience.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1529 on: January 07, 2014, 07:11:07 PM »
I would wager that Craig could throw away his scale and measuring cups and produce just as consistent a dough as he does with them.


Offline Janus

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1530 on: January 07, 2014, 10:06:33 PM »
might try a 78hr rise this time in the fridge, see if the extra day does anything for it.  Also maybe take the dough out before cooking an hour earlier and see what that does for it.

Craig you haven't done any youtube instructional vids by chance?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1531 on: January 07, 2014, 10:12:50 PM »
might try a 78hr rise this time in the fridge, see if the extra day does anything for it.  Also maybe take the dough out before cooking an hour earlier and see what that does for it.

Craig you haven't done any youtube instructional vids by chance?

No. No vids.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Everlast

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1532 on: January 10, 2014, 04:17:18 PM »
Craig, are you at 60% HR for the last Garage pies of 2013? If so, are you mostly favoring 60% these days and why?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1533 on: January 10, 2014, 04:36:44 PM »
Craig, are you at 60% HR for the last Garage pies of 2013? If so, are you mostly favoring 60% these days and why?

I've moved up to 62% for the past couple bakes. It gives me a bit more tender pie. I'll probably experiment with pushing it up a bit higher - probably in conjunction with a bit less of the total 48 hours in balls.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline sub

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1534 on: January 11, 2014, 12:04:21 PM »
Hi Craig,

For your long rising would not be more appropriate to use a stronger flour like the Caputo red "Rinforzata"  ?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1535 on: January 11, 2014, 10:45:57 PM »
Hi Craig,

For your long rising would not be more appropriate to use a stronger flour like the Caputo red "Rinforzata"  ?


I've never even seen it in person.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline ilLazzarone

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1536 on: January 12, 2014, 03:46:37 PM »
Can't wait to get my hands on this oven!
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1537 on: January 12, 2014, 05:47:58 PM »
Can't wait to get my hands on this oven!

Don't go showing me up too much... at least not right away.  ;D
Pizza is not bread.

Offline DenaliPete

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1538 on: January 13, 2014, 02:32:35 AM »
Craig, from your pies to your jerky and your table, you are a craftsman in every sense of the word.


I've gotta believe that you'd have been one hell of a surgeon.

Offline ilLazzarone

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #1539 on: January 13, 2014, 08:32:32 AM »
Don't go showing me up too much... at least not right away.  ;D

Haha! Darn it! I have a Classico 5 coming my way and pretty excited.
Thanks
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