Author Topic: KAAP vs. Caputo - the WFO showdown.  (Read 2370 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16009
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
KAAP vs. Caputo - the WFO showdown.
« on: June 11, 2011, 11:29:16 PM »
I made two batches of dough; identical in every way except for the flour (KAAP or Caputo). Here is the skinny:
100% flour
60% water
2.8% salt
1.7% Ischia culture

Minimal mixing, 30 hours in bulk @ 60-65F , 6 hours in balls @ 77F. Both baked at 825F for ~60 seconds.

Pre bake observations: 1) the Caputo was marginally wetter after mixing, 2) the Caputo dough and ball expanded/rose faster [after 30 hours neither was more than 1.5x], and 3) the Caputo was much more extensible and easier to handle when opening the ball.

So, can you tell which of the pictures below is the Caputo and which is the KAAP? One of them was the best pie I've ever eaten. But which was it?

CL
« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 01:37:37 PM by TXCraig1 »
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage


Offline widespreadpizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1245
  • Location: NH
    • my beer store opening in june 2011
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the showdown.
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2011, 11:57:29 PM »
Craig,  #1 is the KAAP.  Is that the winner as well?  -marc

Offline theppgcowboy

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 392
  • Location: Montana
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the showdown.
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2011, 11:59:57 PM »
Both look awesome, I am saying that you liked 2 and it is caputo.

Online Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7224
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the showdown.
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2011, 12:00:56 AM »
One is AP.  2 was your best.

Chau

foolishpoolish

  • Guest
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the showdown.
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2011, 12:07:47 AM »
Nope. I can't differentiate...you will just have to go and make them both again and let me try them in person  ;D

(push comes to shove I'd go for #1 as KA AP)



Offline Jet_deck

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3052
  • Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the showdown.
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2011, 12:26:38 AM »
#2 was Caputo, it fell open and you chose not to get serious about opening it more. #1 rocked your world. ?

Is there an Acunto pre-paid Visa card at stake?  :-* ;D

What was the temperature?
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline dmcavanagh

  • In Memoriam
  • Posts: 1912
  • Location: Glenmont, NY
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the showdown.
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2011, 12:35:23 AM »
I've yet to ever work with Caputo, so I'll take the Tran Mans eyeballs on this one. And I'd gladly eat the second best! 8)
Rest In Peace - November 1, 2014

Offline RobynB

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 656
  • Location: Scotts Valley, CA
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the showdown.
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2011, 01:40:25 AM »
Agree with the others about which is which, and on pins and needles to hear which was THE ONE

Offline pizzablogger

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1334
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the showdown.
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2011, 02:19:04 AM »
That's interesting that the Caputo rose faster.

I'm assuming the Caputo is their Pizzeria flour?

I can't for certain tell which is which from the picture here...I'm on my cell phone and semi-delirious right now though.

A crumb shot of each would be the truth teller :)

Number 2 appears to have just a slight less overall brown-amber hue, so I'll venture that is the Caputo.

Both look quite good indeed. Not sure either is "better", but assuming your bag of Caputo is not ancient, I can assure you I would prefer the taste note of the Caputo.
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell


Offline pizzablogger

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1334
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the showdown.
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2011, 02:20:41 AM »
Damn it..forgot to say bravo!

I'd wax the hell outta either of those!
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

scott123

  • Guest
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the showdown.
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2011, 08:52:25 AM »
#1 is KAAP. #1 is your favorite.

I'll even go one step further and predict why #1 was your favorite.  Since the oven spring seems comparable on both, I'm certain it boils down to flavor.  Fermented the same way, the KAAP will end up with a lot more enzyme derived sugar and overall flavor.  You preferred the sweeter, beery-er, intenser flavor of the malted flour dough. Side by side, the Caputo's flavor profile was probably a little boring.

Offline Ronzo

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1411
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Leander, TX
  • Beer, Whiskey, Freedom n' Pizza...
    • New Texian Brewery
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the showdown.
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2011, 10:09:37 AM »
I don't care which is which. I'd eat both and enjoy each of them.
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

Former NY'er living in Texas
http://newtexianbrew.com - http://pinterest.com/NewTexianBrew

Offline Lespaul20

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 43
  • Location: Iowa
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the showdown.
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2011, 10:20:34 AM »
Like Pizzablogger, I noticed the color and assume the bottom one being lighter in color is the Caputo.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16009
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the showdown.
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2011, 01:33:09 PM »
Everyone is right on which is which, of course. Not too much of a challenge for this crowd. The Caputo pie there was the first pie of the night, and my first 60 second pie. I didn’t think to adjust the amount of sauce. I made the correction on following pies, and I think the KAAP pie has a better look across the surface – probably the best looking pie I’ve ever made in that respect.

As for the crust, I learned something important. While these were really good, I prefer a 90 second bake. My wife and boys all thought last week’s 90 second pies were better too. Yes, that means neither of these pies was the best I’ve ever eaten. I just put that in there to tweak Scott.

I paid special attention to make both doughs as close as possible with the flour being the only variation. I was really surprised in the difference in handling. I still have more to try, but it’s safe to say I’m quickly becoming a Caputo convert.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline dmcavanagh

  • In Memoriam
  • Posts: 1912
  • Location: Glenmont, NY
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the WFO showdown.
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2011, 01:52:27 PM »
?Everyone was right??? Better read again. ???
Rest In Peace - November 1, 2014

Offline pizzablogger

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1334
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the WFO showdown.
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2011, 01:53:39 PM »
Craig, I think Scott's description of why you might prefer the KAAP flour more is spot on with beer-ee being a good descriptor.

I was going to venture that you in fact preferred the Caputo for it's more straightforward delivery of clean, wheat forward flavors.

It may indeed be more boring, but for me the flavor notes of Caputo are more "unadultered" and natural...whatever the hell that means.
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

scott123

  • Guest
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the showdown.
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2011, 02:37:36 PM »
I just put that in there to tweak Scott.

You got me *shaking my head* I thought, for sure, the big reveal was going to be that you liked the KA, especially since preferring the Caputo was less reveal worthy, but you were just messing with my head. Well played sir, well played  ;D



Offline Bill/SFNM

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 4310
  • Location: Santa Fe, NM
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the WFO showdown.
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2011, 03:28:40 PM »
Craig,

Not sure I understand. You are saying you prefer the 90 second pies, but surely you aren't suggesting the the 50% longer baking time compared to the 60 second pies was under identical oven conditions? It would seem to me that your oven had to be running hotter, much hotter, for the 60 second pies. Is it possible that the ones from the latest batch were under or over baked compared to last week? The higher the temp, the smaller that window of perfection. In my oven, that window can be just a few seconds and explains more than anything else why certain pies come out better that others.

Regardless, your pies look amazing. Your oven and skills are a powerful combo.


Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16009
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the WFO showdown.
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2011, 08:26:17 PM »
Craig,

Not sure I understand. You are saying you prefer the 90 second pies, but surely you aren't suggesting the the 50% longer baking time compared to the 60 second pies was under identical oven conditions? It would seem to me that your oven had to be running hotter, much hotter, for the 60 second pies. Is it possible that the ones from the latest batch were under or over baked compared to last week? The higher the temp, the smaller that window of perfection. In my oven, that window can be just a few seconds and explains more than anything else why certain pies come out better that others.

Regardless, your pies look amazing. Your oven and skills are a powerful combo.

Thanks, Bill. No, I wasn’t suggesting that. The oven was hotter and the dough was 60% hydration vs. 62% the week before. I think they were probably slightly undercooked – just a second or two. I still have a lot of work to do to dial in on what variables are contributing to the attributes that I like. My gut feeling though is that my “perfect” pie will be closer to 90 seconds than to 60, but who knows. Cooking a pie in 60 seconds was a lot of fun, and our guests, who had never heard of such a thing, were just in awe. And that, in and of itself, was one of the best parts of the evening.

Craig
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline pizzablogger

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1334
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the WFO showdown.
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2011, 09:06:09 PM »
Craig, 3 hours is what I've been told by more than one establishment for heat up times at commercial pizzerias with a WFO.

And keep in mind their ovens are in use almost daily, so they are rarely firing up "cold".

Looks like whatever you are doing is working nicely
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline JConk007

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3771
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Lovin my Oven!
    • Flirting with Fire
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the WFO showdown.
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2011, 09:20:09 PM »
Craig,
Nothing better than asking the guest "gotta watch?" watch this 90 sec or less "no way"  its done! holy !@#$% that was 70 seconds unbelievable! yep, just doesn't get any better like you said blows their mind? . I too have converted to more the Caputo  dough partly for opening reasons. Its just so quick and easy, once you get the hang of it slap slap on to peel pull stretch done !
Keep em coming please enjoying your Garage pies very much!
John
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline Bill/SFNM

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 4310
  • Location: Santa Fe, NM
Re: KAAP vs. Caputo - the WFO showdown.
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2011, 09:22:13 PM »
Craig,

Depending on your tastes, I think you may find that the best 60-second pie is better than the best 90-second pie. Perhaps much better - but also much harder to nail. I still struggle with this with each pie I bake.



 

pizzapan