Author Topic: using king arthur bread flour  (Read 2851 times)

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Offline eddie1129

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using king arthur bread flour
« on: May 30, 2005, 05:25:53 PM »
i have been using ka bread flour and i get a cracker type pizza no rise in the crust. i have brought water to 110 degrees added yeast and sugar and let foam. i'm pretty sure the yeast is active because if i leave dough out it still rises after coming out of the fridge. i've only taken 3 shots at making my own dough. i hand knead the first two times the third time i used cutting blade on food processor, i got the same results. ive been using lehmans recipe that i've found modified on this spot for smaller batches of dough.also like my pizza well done. would appreciate any feedback. i'm guessing it is the bread flour
but it also could be in experiance.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: using king arthur bread flour
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2005, 06:14:00 PM »
eddie1129,

Welcome to the forum.

Without more detail, it is hard to say why your pizza crust isn't working out. However, I do not believe the problem is with the bread flour. I have used bread flour on different occasions and, while it is not quite as good as high-gluten flour (e.g., King Arthur Sir Lancelot) in the Lehmann recipe, it produces an acceptable crust without being cracker-like. I am fairly confident that you should be able to use bread flour to make a decent NY style pizza if that is the highest gluten flour that you have available to you. It sounds like your yeast is OK, unless you have not been proofing it correctly in water (I assume you are using active dry yeast or cake yeast rather than instant dry yeast).

To begin with, you might tell us which specific Lehmann dough recipe you have been using, how you used your food processor to make the dough, how long you have been refrigerating your dough, how long you have been letting the dough rise before shaping, the size (diameter) of the pizza you have been making, and how you exactly prepare your oven to bake your pizzas (e.g., temperature, stones or tiles, pans, stone/rack positioning, bake time, etc.). If you have deviated from the recipe in any way (ingredients or technique), it would also help to know how you deviated, since that might give us a clue as to how and where the problem arose. I assume you are measuring the ingredients by using measuring cups and measuring spoons. Is that correct? As for the question of how well done the crust is, it is perhaps better to delay trying to answer that question until the underlying problem has been identified and corrected.

The toughest part about making pizza dough is the beginning, where you don't quite know what to expect at almost any stage along the way of producing a quality dough. But don't lose heart and give up. If you can provide more detail, we should be able to get you going in the right direction, even if we have to do it in steps.

Peter
« Last Edit: May 30, 2005, 06:35:02 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline eddie1129

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Re: using king arthur bread flour
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2005, 07:06:30 PM »
   High-gluten flour, 11.80 oz. (about 2 1/2 c.)
      Water, 7.70 oz. (about 1 c.) (about 65% hydration)
      IDY, 0.20 oz. (1 1/2 t.)
      Salt, 0.20 oz. (3/4 t.)
      Olive oil (light), 0.12 oz. (3/4 t.)
pete
i thought i was using your recipe. but i was not after doing a search. it is this with sugar added to yeast. i think 1 1/2 tablespoons of sugar. i threw out recipe and decide to start over also i'm using saf perfect rise actve dry yeast 1 pkg is equal to 1 1/4 t. i have a 1/4 inch pizza stone and i'm making  about a 10 inch pizza using about half of this recipe for 1 pizza.i'm cookin at 550. i let oven heat up for 1 hour. i left dough in fridge overnight
then sit for an 1-2hours on counter before cooking. i'm streching dough very thin. could this be the problem. so far each dough i've made was very easy to work with and i think i have pretty good technique. i watch local pizza guy a couple times and i think i got the technique down. i hope this is enough infomation, i realize dough gets better with experience.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: using king arthur bread flour
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2005, 09:28:47 PM »
eddie 1129,

I am confident that your problem was not the King Arthur bread flour or the yeast per se.

The Lehmann dough recipe you mentioned was one of the first I modified for home use. It has since been modified to use a lower hydration percent (a bit less water) and a lot less yeast. But the recipe was not the problem, even when you added sugar to it. I think the problem arose from the amount of sugar you used and the way you used it in relation to the yeast. There may well have been other problems, such as the way you formed the skin for your 10-inch pizza (discussed below), but I think the sugar problem may have been the principal one from what you have reported.

If you indeed did use 1 1/2 tablespoons of sugar, that amount came to 5.4% by weight of flour in the Lehmann recipe you referenced. When sugar is used in a Lehmann recipe, it is used at a rate of about 2-3% by weight of flour, and even then it is called for only when the dough is to be held beyond 48 hours (not 24 hours or less as in your case) or the pizza is going to be baked on a pizza screen. Above 5% and the sugar will negatively affect the yeast activity and prevent proper fermentation of the dough by permeating the yeast cells (through osmotic pressure) and overwhelming the yeast. When you added the entire amount of sugar to the water along with the active dry yeast (ADY), that also was not good for the yeast. It is common to add a pinch or so of sugar to the yeast/water mixture, but the yeast can't tolerate the amount of sugar you used, all at one time, without affecting its performance. I suspect the problem would have been less severe had you combined the sugar with the flour, where it would have been more uniformly dispersed within the dough and not in such direct contact with the yeast.

You also indicated that you used half of the dough from the Lehmann recipe to make a 10-inch pizza and that it was quite thin. The recipe you used produces a bit over 20 ounces of dough. If you used half of that amount for a 10-inch pizza, that is, about 10 ounces, the pizza skin would have had a thickness factor of 0.13, which is considered thick, not thin, and certainly not very thin as you indicated. I assume that you didn't weigh the dough ball to confirm its weight but rather just estimated it.

My advice to you is to forget the sugar (at least for a dough retarded for no more than 24 hours) and use one of the newer versions of the Lehmann dough recipe. I would also only use an amount of dough that you will need to make a pizza of whatever size you want. That way, everything will be in balance quantity wise, the thickness should be just right, and you should end up with a pizza that has the typical characteristics of a NY style. I have posted many versions of the Lehmann dough recipe at this forum, for several different sizes of pizzas, so there are many recipes available for you to choose from--from 9 inches all the way up to 18 inches. If you would like me to post one for a particular size pizza, let me know. If I don't have the size you want (I don't think I have one for a 10-inch), I will devise one for you (including substituting ADY for IDY, if you'd like).

As for having your pizza well done, you may want to consider lowering your bake temperature, for example, to 450-475 degrees F, and increase the bake time by a few minutes, or until you see that the crust has the degree of doneness that you prefer. Using this approach will have the effect of letting moisture in the dough bake off more completely and allow the crust to develop its color and texture more slowly than when using higher oven temperatures and shorter bake times.

Peter

Offline JimBob

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Re: using king arthur bread flour
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2005, 10:04:31 PM »
Hello everyone, I'm new here and thought this topic was a good one for me to jump in on.  My name is Jim and I grew up working in different types of pizzerias from traditional New York style hearth oven to assembly line conveyor belts.  This is just my background and definitely not my experience level as I have been in the computer repair business for the past 7 years.  So now that everyone knows me I thought I would comment on this post and add a dough recipe that I've been working on (feedback welcome).

I tried the King Arthur bread flour and found that it made a tough dough that did not rise well using the basic dough formula I started with.  This was the only high-gluten brand available.  I decided to try a generic all purpose bleached bread flour in it's place with much better results.  Below is the recipe I am using and a picture of the pie.

16 oz    All Purpose Bread Flour 100%   
9 oz    Water 58%   
1 1/4 tsp    Active dry yeast 2%   
4 1/2 tsp    Sugar 4%   
1 5/8 tsp    Salt 2%   
3/4 oz    Vegetable Oil 5%   
1/2 tsp    Garlic Powder   
 
 
 
1 Fill a container with 70 degrees F water.
2 Measure 1 tsp of the SUGAR and mix it into the water container.
3 Weigh out the YEAST and lightly mix it into the sugar water. Put the yeast-water aside and set a timer for 15 minutes.
4 Weigh out the following ingredients.
5 FLOUR
6 GARLIC POWDER
7 SALT
8 The rest of the SUGAR
9 OIL
10 With the bowl in down position, add ingredients to the mixer in the following order
11 WATER
12 FLOUR
13 GARLIC POWDER
14 SALT
15 The rest of the SUGAR
16 OIL
17 Immediately raise the bowl to the up position.
18 Set the timer for 10 minutes, then turn on the mixer speed control to 1st speed.
19 Lightly oil a dough tray.
20 When done mixing, lower the mixing bowl and remove the dough.
21 Place the dough on the tray and let rest at room temperature for 1 hour.
22 Cut and weigh dough into specified weights and roll into dough balls.
23 Lightly oil dough balls and individually wrap loosely in plastic wrap.
24 Place in refrigerator overnight.
25 Cook dough at 400 degrees until golden brown. (Still testing at higher temps)
 
 
Yield: 26 oz
JimBob

Offline itsinthesauce

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Re: using king arthur bread flour
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2005, 09:45:21 AM »
Looks great! Mt dough recipe and technique is almost exactly what you describe, minus the garlic powder. I'll give it a try tonight.

Offline JimBob

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Re: using king arthur bread flour
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2005, 10:29:56 AM »
I'm looking forward to your comments.
JimBob


 

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