Author Topic: trick your oven to higher temps  (Read 16208 times)

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Offline Les

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2005, 09:20:43 PM »
Les, make sure you check out the patsy's crust, and try a Caputo based Neapolitan dough in there. They are designed for high temp ovens like you now have. Congratulations, and do keep that fire extinguisher around!

Oh, you guys are so far ahead of me it's ridiculous (in terms of experimentation).  I love the empirical approach everyone seems to accept here as the way to go.  I really trust people who experiment relentlessly.  I am the same way, so I'm following everyone's lead for now.  I can't wait to order the Captuto . . . I found somebody in South San Francisco (about 60 miles from me) who sells it.  Shipping from the East Coast was too expensive.  Looking forward to trying Patsy's crust, and the guy's techniques who has his own website (I forget his name, but he's on my fav list), exploring higher hydration, preferments, autolyse . . . I'm really excited to have so much to learn.


Offline PizzaSuperFreak

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2005, 09:39:41 PM »
rock on les.

keep us posted.

Offline Les

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2005, 09:46:02 PM »
where did you purchase it? did u use both the rope and the cement? is it a permanent fixture, or removable?

The rope is standard stock in a large hardware store (I found it at Ace) or someplace like Home Depot.  People around here use it to insulate wood burning stoves and chimney inserts.  I spent about $10 total for what I used.  The cement is interesting.  It's a black paste and you need to put it on the rope liberally so it sticks.  After it heats up and cools, the cement is "flakey" and pretty easily can be scraped off. 

also, why ady? unless it's that 'highly active' stuff, there should be no reason to use it due to the fact that you have to pre-hydrate it in order for it to work, versus IDY which you can just throw into the flour.

Okay, I'll confess.  I just can't wait to do things properly, I want to experiment now.   :P  I read Peter's attempt to work with prefermentation in one day (and no yeast), and actually tried it myself.  I was surprised that after leaving the dough in the sun during the day I over-fermented the dough and pretty much ruined it.

Last night I used regular NY dough I bought from a local pizzeria to experiment with the 750 temp, and I felt the dough needed to be more moist to handle the heat, especially since I was planning to trying it hotter tonight. 

So to attempt all the best new things, I wanted to autolyse, use preferment and try a higher hydration ratio (to the empiricists:  I know, lack of control . . . but hey, if I can't leap from all y'alls experiments what good are ya?).   Since I only had about 9 hours to achieve this, I decided to attempt four hours of cold retardation, but also ensure I got a rise by adding a little yeast in addition to the preferment.  I only had ADY here, so I set aside a small amount of water while the dough autolysed and mixed in the ADY.  When it was time, I then mixed in the insurance yeast and the rest of the ingredients.


I realize I'm not expert enough to get creative yet, so all I'm doing is trying to compensate for not having 2 days to get my dough ready.  I'll let you know how things turn out, which I'll be finding in about an hour.

Offline PizzaPolice

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2005, 11:44:57 PM »
Les:

Are you venting your oven?  I have a Bakers Pride countertop oven and at 650 it just about runs me out of the house.

I can't wait to see the pictures of your pizza.

Offline Les

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2005, 12:50:26 AM »
Les:

Are you venting your oven? I have a Bakers Pride countertop oven and at 650 it just about runs me out of the house.

I can't wait to see the pictures of your pizza.

No vent.  I'm fortunate to have a window right over it, and a high ceiling.  I haven't had a problem yet. 

I'm sad to report my pizza crust was too "crunchy."  It had the lightness inside, but the outer exteriors (top and bottom) were like crackers.  I suspect the oven was too hot . . . I thought the 750 temp I had last night worked better (versus 850 tonight).  Also, the buffalo mozzarella was sooooo bland, and too wet even though I squeezed the heck out of it between paper towels. I'm going back to low moisture cheese.

 Like I said, I don't think I understand enough to get creative yet, so I'm going to study everybody's techniques more and try to replicate them.

Offline Randy

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2005, 07:30:42 AM »
Les, this is still a very bad idea.  The internal wire insulation may be failing.  Is this the 220 volt unit?

Offline PizzaSuperFreak

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2005, 08:34:08 AM »
Randy,

Why do you keep naysaying our projects? I understand your concern, but by the mere fact that we continue to try to modify our ovens, even knowing what you have said should tell you that we are still interested in doing so.

I personally feel that if you have an oven that was made and insulated for a cleaning cycle, then it should be able to run at those temps comfortably. Otherwise, they would've never released it to the public.

Thanks for your advice, but I think those of us who are willing to experiment with our ovens are going to do so despite the warnings.

  - PSF

Offline Randy

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2005, 11:10:36 AM »
PSF, I don't think Les counter top pizza oven has a cleaning cycle.

Offline scott r

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2005, 01:07:56 PM »
I have to admit that I am totally with Randy on this one.  On another thread I just told Les not to give up, but after thinking about this a little I am actually feeling quite guilty.  Our cleaning cycle ovens were made to withstand 1000 degree temps for long periods of time.  Mine stays on for four hours if you let it.  Les' oven was just not designed with this in mind.  Please be careful Les, and make sure you have a real fire extinguisher around, not one of those little rinky dink ones.  Also please do not ever leave this oven unattended until it has cooled down after use.  It might be nice during these warm months to actually take it outside.


Offline PizzaSuperFreak

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2005, 01:12:04 PM »
i didn't even think about it. it's a good point. who knows what his oven is made to withstand.

Offline Pizza Inhaler

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2010, 12:48:42 AM »
I have a gas oven.  I didn't really trick my oven to higher temps; but, about a year ago, I made a small flat shield out of aluminum foil and placed it on the oven rack underneath the temp probe.  It doesn't touch it.  The gas burner heats a steel plate on the bottom with slits on the sides.  Beings they put the temp probe on the side also, this causes the probe to shut off too soon as it thinks its up to temp.  (The sides being hotter then the middle)   Now it works like its suppose too and I can go easily get to 550 degrees.  Before it was like 475.  An easy fix.

Offline TraderRick

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2010, 04:00:49 PM »
You may be able to "calibrate your oven" to get 35 degrees more heat out of it. Follow the directions from Appliance 411 and use a seperate in oven thermometer.

There have been numerous oven control systems used over the years. The following instructions describe various methods that might be employed to correct such a condition.

In almost all cases if the temperature reading is more than 35F out, some part of the control system will need to be repaired. Usually adjustment will not provide an adequate solution to the condition and may even make it worse.

Before attempting any kind of adjustment on a hydraulic oven control, make sure the thermostat's sensor bulb is properly mounted in the oven cavity and not touching the oven wall or metal rack. The sensor bulbs are held about 1/2" away from the oven wall by a small metal clip.

Dial type control
Some models have the calibration adjustment on the underside of the knob itself. On this type of arrangement, the loosening of the dial plate and moving it one way or the other will change the temperature reading on the dial once reinstalled.


Other control designs have the temperature calibration screw down the center of the shaft. These usually require a special small screwdriver to access it. See below for a link to a detailed calibration method for one brand of oven thermostat.


Electronic Control Calibration
The following procedures are designed to provide an general idea how calibration adjustment of the oven temperature display on many electronically controlled (ERC/EOC) ranges and ovens is done. The actual procedures vary from model to model so check your owner's manual.

If the temperature is out more than 35F, the oven sensor or the electronic control may need to be replaced to correct the inaccuracy.

General

Press BAKE


Select a temperature of 550


Quickly (within 5-seconds of setting 550) press and hold the BAKE button approximately 5-15 seconds until "00" or the previously entered temperature adjustment is displayed.

Pressing longer could cause an F0, F1 or F7 error to be displayed.


Press the UP/DOWN arrow button or turn the set knob to change the oven temperature in 5 increments to a maximum of +/- 35


Press the CLEAR or OFF button to return to normal operation.






Exceptions
For Frigidaire built "Trimline Easy-Set 1" dial type E.O.C.


With the Oven Control Dial set to OFF, press and hold the START pad for 30 seconds, (until a single "beep" is heard).


Within 5 seconds, turn the oven control dial to either the BROIL HI, to increase, or BROIL LO, to decrease the oven temperature. Maximum adjustment will be 35F up or down from the factory pre-set point.


The oven temperature can now be adjusted up or down, in 5F increments, by pressing the START pad. Adjust until the desired amount of offset is reach. This offset will be indicated by a flashing L.E.D.



A flashing "OVEN" L.E.D. indicates a positive offset. A flashing "LOCK" L.E.D. indicates a negative offset. They will flash once for each 5F of offset it has been programmed for. After the flashing sequence, it will pause and then repeat the sequence.

Example: If the "OVEN" L.E.D. flashes three times and then a pause, the offset is +15F. If no "OVEN" or "LOCK" L.E.D. is flashing, the E.O.C. has the original factory preset.




For some General Electric ranges


Press the BAKE and BROIL HI/LO pads at the same time for 3 seconds until the display shows SF.


Press the BAKE pad. A two digit number shows in the display. The oven temperature can be adjusted up to +/- 35F.


Press the INCREASE pad to increase and the DECREASE pad to decrease the temperature in 1 degree increments.


When you have made the adjustment, press the START pad to go back to the time of day display.



The above procedure will not affect the broil or clean temperatures.




Some GE models with temp. knob to the right of display


Press and hold the two hour arrow buttons for 5 sec.


Then use the arrows buttons to adjust temperature up or down.






Other GE models with temp. knob to the right of display


Turn the temperature knob to the OFF position.


Press and hold the HOUR +/- button for 5 seconds until the display changes.


Before display changes back, press the HOUR +/- button again to increase or decrease the temperature in 5 degree increments.

If the oven adjustment is set cooler than the factory setting, a minus sign (-) and the offset temperature will appear in the display.


Wait several seconds for the control to automatically set and return to its previous setting.






Some GE models between 1980 - 1993


Set bake to over 500


Press and hold the bake button (~5 sec.) until display changes.


Then use the knob or up/down arrows buttons to adjust temperature.






For some Whirlpool/KitchenAid/Kenmore ranges and ovens


Press BAKE button for 5 seconds. The default or a previously entered temperature offset will show.


Press the TEMP 'up' arrow to increase the temperature in 10F or 5C increments*.


Press the TEMP 'down' arrow to decrease the temperature in 10F or 5C increments*.


Press START to save the temp. adjustment.


*A maximum offset adjustment of 30F or 15C is possible.

(To switch between Fahrenheit to Celsius, try pressing and holding the "broil" button for 5 seconds.)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 04:03:48 PM by TraderRick »

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2010, 07:08:53 PM »
That is some good stuff right there.

I would just caution you to let the other members of your house who use the oven know that the calibration has been altered so that when the wife's cakes all start coming out burnt she can't blame you.

Offline Pizza Inhaler

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2010, 11:55:39 PM »
I looked in my owners manual and nothing there about calibration.  Its a whirlpool oven. Just plain knobs for control. No oven light or window. No digital display.  The kind that last forever as long as the plastic handles hold up.  :)

Offline Tannerwooden

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2011, 01:18:27 AM »
Hey, pizza super freak.

I can see there has already been lot's of good advice (And Warnings!), but I'll still let you know what I did.

DISCLAIMER  This is only what I did.  If you kill yourself, or burn down your kitchen, it's all the fault of the voices in your head.

Ok, so before I even found this forum, I was trying various methods until I settled for a while on this:

PROBE CONDOM:  I made a sort of "condom" to go over my oven probe, a little like the cigar tube idea.  I don't like the cigar tube idea though because of the water next right above a 240 volt heating element.  I am a remodeling carpenter, so I talked with the guys who do our heating and air conditioning installations.  I asked if they sold high temperature insulation, like the kind I see surrounding my oven.  They gave me a small piece free!  I used it with some tinfoil to make 2 condoms.  I put the condoms in the freezer and turned my oven on to max(programmed for the extra 35 degrees mentioned above.)  As soon as I saw the heating element turn off(not when the oven said it was preheated), I put the first condom on.  I didn't have a laser temperature reader at the time, so I'm not sure exactly how hot it got, but guessing by the dial on my (now broken!) in-oven thermometer, I think up to 750.  Because it's just insulation, the heat does eventually get to the probe, thus the second condom.  If I wanted to make several pizzas, I would keep switching condoms (CAREFULLY!!!) from oven to freezer.

Then, I read this post:   http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8730.0.html

"TURBO" SWITCH:   I have affectionately named this switch the turbo switch.  The link above describes it much more accurately than I could, but I'll take a stab anyways.  Basically, your oven probe registers a resistance number, in ohms that increases as the oven gets hotter.  This is how the oven knows when to shut off the heating element.  So, I bypassed the wire going to the heating element, and ran it to a switch.  I taped the switch to the back of my oven, just out of site.  If you flip the switch one way, it goes to the heating element and works like it always did.  If you flip it to the "turbo" position, it goes instead to a resistor.  How did I pick the resistor?  I pulled the oven probe out of the oven and measured it's resistance with a multi-meter at room temperature, then went out and bought a resister matching that resistance from my local radio shack.  So, when I flip the switch into turbo, the oven keeps trying to heat no matter how hot the element gets.  The element has been bypassed.  I love this setup, because I can also turn on my broiler (It is so close to the element, it would heat up the condom too quick) and get more even heat on top of the pizza.

The TURBO SWITCH (tm) idea may seem really complicated, but I promise, it's really not(but don't do it if you don't know what you're doing!!!!).  It took me a grand total of two hours.  In addition to my pizzas, this has really improved my bread baking.  It's really handy to be able to get your oven a little hotter for high hydration doughs.  I took pictures, which I plan to post as soon as I stop being lazy.   :D

Offline communist

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2011, 09:09:26 PM »
I really enjoy this forum, and now am logged in.  It has helped me in my pursuit of the New York pizza.  I went to John's in New York City years ago, and would like to return again.  With ideas from this forum, I tweaked my cheap Kenmore electric oven by placing a folded magic cake strip ( for baking level cakes ) around the thermostat probe.  I think I got around 650 to 675 in the oven, and had my Pizza Gourmet Stone bought 20 years ago pre-heated for over an hour.  Anybody else have one of these stones? Lehman dough from All Trumps.  Wow.  Great crust with some char, homemade sauce from Wegmans San Marzanos , and Grande whole milk mozzarella.  Family loved the pizza.  I think my thin crust had a thickness factor of .08 or .O9.  Anybody been to John's lately and have some tips?

Offline artellan

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2011, 01:04:39 PM »
I wonder if just putting a pan of water on the top rack of my oven, directly beneath the temperature probe, might fool it into higher temps?  The water might act like a local heat sink?

Not sure how long it would last before boiling off, but I could always add more water prior to adding a pizza. Although I'd prefer not to be touching it while the oven is on actually, for the risk of cracking the door glass from a spilled drop or two.

I know that when I bake bread and a have a steam pan in the bottom rack, a loaf baked directly above the steam pan will not bake as fast. Not sure if this would translate to the temp probe giving a lower reading though.

Maybe I'll try it next time I bake...

Cheers
Mike


Offline matermark

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2011, 04:45:17 PM »
I haven't done any tweaks yet. I have a 2-year old Frigidaire gas oven with convection. I have a rectangular stone that I used on the bottom of the 3 racks but have since moved it to the oven floor instead. Using a Harbor Freight Laser digital thermal gun, after about 30 minutes of preheating at 550, the gun consistently registers 570-590 on much of the stone and as high as 770  :o on many spots of the oven floor.

I have noticed when I turn the Convection on that the toppings go into a "molten" state--that is, they start bubbling like a molten pot brewing on the fire. A loaded pizza usually takes around 5 minutes.

"Baking" with the convection lowers the temp 25 degrees because of it's efficiency (set the digital touchpad to 550 and it says/runs 525) but "roasting" with the convection feature turns on the upper heater and the convection fan at the actual temp you key in. So the highest I can get without any mods is 550 convection "roasting." I will play around and try it different ways and take temp readings when I get a chance.

Offline scott r

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2011, 05:05:57 PM »
  Anybody been to John's lately and have some tips?

Yes, make sure to use a decent amount of sauce.    Also I believe Johns was one of the first east coast pizzerias to switch over to giusto's flour, although you might still prefer all trumps if it is the bromated variety.   

Good luck!   

Offline apizza

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2011, 11:19:09 AM »
Kind of a trick. We replaced our 1969 stove a while back. It's matching refer was dead, but I moved the stove to the basement. I defeated the lock by tyeing off a switch. To me it's a pain to heat in the clean cycle because the heat is top element only. Always have to be watching. Finally my old brain remembered a calibrate adjustment under the oven control. One is for clean, one for bake.

I ran a test on the bake. It's a multi turn adjustment. Long story short, with 1 1/2 turns I was able to easily get my stone to 700 deg by setting the temp dial to about 400 deg. Bottom element only and thermostat control. What a joy not to have to worry about burning the house down while I converse upstairs. It's all labeled in case I fall down the stairs carrying a pizza.

Offline communist

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #45 on: March 08, 2011, 02:16:57 PM »
Thanks Scott!  Do you think their sauce was cooked at all?  Mark

Offline scott r

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #46 on: March 08, 2011, 07:50:18 PM »
No, I believe 99% of pizzerias do not cook their sauce.   

Offline Tampa

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #47 on: March 09, 2011, 01:22:35 PM »
Tannerwooden - I love the TurboSwitch idea.  Thanks for sharing.
Dave

Offline Tannerwooden

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #48 on: March 13, 2011, 01:05:43 AM »
Thanks Tampa, but I think props go to Dimarem (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8730.0.html)

I can't be sure, but I believe he is the first to post an oven mod like the Turbo Switch (c).  LOL, I guess I'll have to pay him a shilling every time I use the term, Turbo Switch (c).

Offline dimarem

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Re: trick your oven to higher temps
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2011, 06:57:48 PM »
Thanks guys -
been sleeping for a (long) while. Just make sure you put the resistor in parallel with the temperature sensor. If it is used alone, the oven will never know when to turn off. The dynamic resistance characteristics of the sensor allow the control circuitry to recognize that it has kept the elements on long enough. The switch is also cool, so you can have a normal oven f you need it.