Author Topic: The Ideal Pizza Stone?  (Read 5993 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline GSpots

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16
The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« on: June 16, 2011, 07:41:11 PM »
    In my introductory post, I mentioned that I am an old potter in Vermont who has been obsessed with making the best pizza stone I can. Scott123 was kind enough to make a few suggestions and give me some testing ideas. I have been at this for most of a year and it seems that the more I learn, the more I need to know. From reading some of the posts here, I realize that there won't be one best pizza stone, but there may be a few good ones.
    I have built a contraption that allows me to measure the relative thermal expansion of different materials. After perfecting a really good body for baking dishes and casseroles, I started working on cordierite for pizza stones. I have found that it is not hard to duplicate the characteristics of brand name cordierite stones, but the material is not as dense as I would like. I think I can improve on the usual performance by making the color of the material much darker to help it absorb heat faster. I also think a very pronounced texture on the back side can almost double the surface area to speed up initial heating and recovery. My latest idea is that a mullite body may be better than cordierite. It will be
between cordierite and soapstone in performance, with only about 40% of the thermal expansion of soapstone. It is also
easy to glaze. I will be testing this later this month in my big kiln.
    My questions are these: How thick? how big? glazed or unglazed? round or square? who here would be good testers?



Online scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 5105
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2011, 03:52:58 PM »
Hey George, Scott here  :D

Definitely no on the glaze.  Glazes might look nice, but they have very little resistance to thermal shock.

Thickness really depends on density, specific heat and conductivity. A good stone will have sufficient thermal mass to store enough heat to bake at least a couple pizzas.  It should also have sufficient mass and conductivity to deliver a large enough dose of heat to achieve a short bake time at typical home oven temperatures (less than 5 minutes).  From a baking perspective, the thicker the stone, the better. Logistically speaking, though, very thick, heavy stones can be very costly to ship and can stress oven shelves, so you can't go too crazy.

I bake with a 45 lb. 16.5" x 20"  x 1.25" soapstone slab, and, although I've never pushed it, from a hearth perspective, I'm pretty certain that, with a full pre-heat, I could bake three 4 minute 16" pies with the oven off. With soapstone's conductivity and density, though, this is probably a bit overkill.  If I could get 1" (or maybe even 3/4") soapstone, I'm relatively certain it would perform well in a 550 deg. oven.

As you're aware, a lot hinges on density.  Here's some density specs (g/cm^3):

Steel  7.86   
Soapstone 2.98
Cordierite (dense)  2.6
Cordierite (porous)  1.9

Second to density is conductivity.  Here's the pertinent specs for that (W/mK)

Steel  43   
Alumina  35
Soapstone  6.4
Cordierite (dense)  3
Cordierite (porous)  1.5

I would venture to say that to have any chance at creating a great stone, you're going to have to hit a target density somewhere above 2 g/cm^3.  Below that and the air content will be so great that the stone just won't be able to conduct heat all that well, regardless of the conductivity of the materials you use to make it. The water in wet clay is the kiss of death to dense ceramics, so I'd use as little water as possible in your formula and try some form of tamping.  You won't have the multi-ton presses that they most likely use for dense cordierite, so I'm not sure how successful you'll be, but I would give tamping a shot.

If you can get a target density of above 2 and use enough alumina to bring the stone into the realm of 10 W/mK conductivity, then I'm relatively certain you can get away with 3/4" thickness. Any lower conductivity than that, then I think you'll need an inch. Measuring conductivity could get tricky.  Precise measurements require very expensive equipment, but I'm thinking there has to be a way to get a very rough sketch.  For instance, if you were able to ascertain that your material was somewhere between 7 and 13 (a pretty wide range, in my opinion) then I think that should be more than sufficient. I googled DIY thermal conductivity measuring and didn't come up with much. Perhaps we can make an offering to the Rube Goldberg gods?  ;D Off the top of my head, I'm picturing a pot of boiling water set on top of the stone, a stopwatch and an IR thermometer taking readings on the bottom of the stone. Or... you could bake pizza.  If it bakes in less that 4 minutes with a 550 pre-heat, you're set.

It's probably a bit psychological, but, when launching a pizza, I feel like I have a bigger target with a square stone.  That being said, round stones, if they can take the heat, can be used in round grills.  Round stones can also be combined with steel lazy susans for easier rotation of the pizza during baking.  I think it's a toss up.  If a square stone is easier to make, I'd go with that.

I always tell people to buy the largest square stone that their oven can handle, allowing space on the sides for air flow, but NOT in the front and the back.  Bigger stones allow for bigger pizzas, and, from a NY perspective, bigger is better. As far as accommodating the most potential buyers? Well, since a good number of home ovens can't handle stones larger than 16", then that's what I'd go with, but if there's any chance you could offer two sizes, then I'd do a 16" and an 18" stone.

Out of everything you've mentioned, the color aspect is the most interesting.  Right now, as far as I know, there aren't many colored retail stone options and the ones that are available are uselessly thin.  Even soapstone, if sufficient quality, should have a high percentage of talc, making it fairly light gray. Not only would a very dark stone heat up faster, but, for gas oven owners with a separate broiling compartment, a very dark stone could be the best choice for a false ceiling.  So far, I've been recommending quarry tiles in this scenario, but something dark would be superior at emitting radiative energy and brown the top of the pie faster. How black can go?  This is probably a single color black, right, such as very very dark blue? Any chance for a deep dark 4 color black?

Btw, in the interests of full disclosure, I think what you're doing is incredibly exciting and fun and I think there's a chance you might find a small niche market for it (such as for ceilings), but, as a hearth, I don't think you're likely to create something superior to steel plate, which is relatively inexpensive and widely available.  In other words, I'm kind of hoping that your motivation lies more in tinkering/having fun than making real money here. The forum has done a little testing on absorption and it's impact on undercrusts, and the results were fairly conclusive that most pizza stone materials don't absorb water and, even for the ones that do, the difference is fairly negligible. Around the time of the testing, I was very confident about the conclusiveness of the results, but, after some time, a tiny amount of doubt has crept in.  Don't get me wrong, I'm still doing back flips over the superior baking properties of completely non absorptive steel plate, but, maybe, just maybe, there is a slightly porous ceramic material out there that crisps up the bottom of the crust a tiny bit better while still being not so porous that it's thermally weak.  Maybe. I wouldn't get your hopes up.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 03:55:41 PM by scott123 »

Offline GSpots

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2011, 07:02:51 PM »
Thanks again Scott for all your time and information. I never make much money on anything, so that is not the main concern, If I get somewhere with this, I will just retail as many as I can. I can't begin to compeat on price with manufacturers of kiln shelves who are making the popular cordierite stones. I can custom make mine in any thickness, shape or size because they are all hand made. I don't worry about the water involved in the forming process because it can be limited with deffloculents and the material compacts as the water evaporates. My cordierite stones have the same 1.9 specific gravity as the Old Stone Oven ones and I am quite sure the more dense cordierite is self glazing type used in electrical insulators which has much higher thermal expansion.

I don't mind skipping the glaze because it is almost impossible to fit a glaze correctly to cordierite. I am able to add iron oxide in fairly large quantities to get a very dark brown result. I fire in reduction which makes the iron become an active flux as it gives up some of it's oxygen. It has surprised me in that it doesn't seem to have effected the thermal expansion. I also think the heavy texture on the back side as shown in the picture will help a lot to heat up the stone and help them recover faster.

The proof will be in the pudding, I mean the pie. I really want to have some of you experts who have experience with different stones see how these things perform and compare to others you have used.
I hope that after my kiln firing at the end of this month I may have some stones to be tested. I am not enough of a baker to know the difference. The first pizza I put on one of my glazed stones levitated on a layer of steam almost off the back of the stone.  It was really floating for a few seconds.

Any more comments?

I am quite sure I can make a mullite body with at least a specific gravity of 2.5 which will be much better than cordierite. mullite has the advantage of being extremely tough as well as fairly low in thermal expansion.






Online scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 5105
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2011, 09:17:55 PM »
Deffloculents? That's a big word.  My college minor in ceramics didn't cover those!  ;D  I know I said to shoot for a specific gravity of 2, but 1.9 is pretty darn close.  I do encourage you to strive for higher, but if you had to fall back to 1.9, it may not be the end of the world.

Instead of going from a low ratio cordierite to a higher ratio alumina mullite, I'd like to see you play around with a very high ratio alumina. I am absolutely certain that a high ratio of alumina will give you the best possible ceramic baking stone specs.

This forum has a member named Engineered Ceramics who spent some time working with an 85% alumina stone. I recommend combing through some of this old posts:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=7196;sa=showPosts;start=0

Offline pocodot

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2011, 11:21:46 AM »
Deffloculents? That's a big word.  My college minor in ceramics didn't cover those!  ;D  I know I said to shoot for a specific gravity of 2, but 1.9 is pretty darn close.  I do encourage you to strive for higher, but if you had to fall back to 1.9, it may not be the end of the world.

Instead of going from a low ratio cordierite to a higher ratio alumina mullite, I'd like to see you play around with a very high ratio alumina. I am absolutely certain that a high ratio of alumina will give you the best possible ceramic baking stone specs.

This forum has a member named Engineered Ceramics who spent some time working with an 85% alumina stone. I recommend combing through some of this old posts:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=7196;sa=showPosts;start=0


Once again, thank you. My problem is I would need to manufacture my own stone... another industry before I even get started. I will have to use good old red clay brick from scratch, ??? in my oven.

Offline GSpots

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2011, 12:22:02 PM »
Sorry Scott123, Deffloculents are chemicals that adjust the PH of casing slip to make the clay crystals repell each other though ionization of the water. This eliminates about 50 % of the water needed to make the clay slurry liquid enough to cast with. The alumina idea sounds good, but crushed fused alumina is extremely costly and plain old Al2O3 from alumina hydrate which not so expensive won't help by itself. We are really dealing with crystals that form through solid state reactions at elevated temperatures. Cordierite is one and mullite is another. They both contain alumina which comes mostly from inexpensive clays. Adding more alumina than can react just gives us a punky weak product. Rather than talking more about ceramics as if I was a ceramic engineer, I want to hear what you bakers want in a baking stone that is not made out of steel and costs less than $100. I hope the potter in me can make some really good ones that you bakers can test. Then we will know if I am as smart as I think I am. If not, you can all laugh at me and say I should have listened to Scott. Seriously, Scott has been a big help, thanks again.

Online norma427

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17402
  • Location: Dutch Country, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2011, 12:47:28 PM »
Gspots,

Interesting reading your thread and what you are trying to do with making pizza stones.  :) I really don’t understand what goes into making pizza stones, but just use them.  I find I like a cordierite baking stone for my lower temperature, less than optimal home oven.  I do have a deck oven which I also think does use a cordierite baking stone.  I have tried soapstone in my home oven and in my convection oven, but don’t think my oven temperatures were high enough to take advantage of the soapstone.  I have also tried firebricks in a BBQ grill set-up.

Best of luck to you in making the best pizza stone you can.  :) I don’t ever think anyone would laugh at you for trying.  I think each member on this forum has tried different stones, techniques for using stones, and many other ideas.  I will be following your interesting thread.  This forum is for experimenting to see what happens.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline GSpots

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2011, 01:10:20 PM »
Thanks Norma, for your encouragement. I am really struck by how similar pizza baking is to pottery making.
In both fields there seem to be hundreds of variables with only a few dozen we can control. I have been wallowing in mud ever since I was a child, and that was long ago. I am still amazed by the magic and mystery of it all. I have no axe to grind here. Cordierite is a great and mysterious material with its super low thermal expansion and reasonable cost it is a natural. That is why I used cordierite kiln shelves before I could afford nitrate bonded silicon carbide at $300.00 a pop. Soapstone and steel are each fine in their place, but
I am a potter and I think I may find something a little denser with better thermal conducting properties in the realm of mullite or Cordierite-mullite blended. I want something that will act a little more like soapstone without the high cost and variability. If I can't find it, I will be using my dark colored cordierite mix.---george

Online norma427

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17402
  • Location: Dutch Country, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2011, 04:30:26 PM »
Thanks Norma, for your encouragement. I am really struck by how similar pizza baking is to pottery making.
In both fields there seem to be hundreds of variables with only a few dozen we can control. I have been wallowing in mud ever since I was a child, and that was long ago. I am still amazed by the magic and mystery of it all. I have no axe to grind here. Cordierite is a great and mysterious material with its super low thermal expansion and reasonable cost it is a natural. That is why I used cordierite kiln shelves before I could afford nitrate bonded silicon carbide at $300.00 a pop. Soapstone and steel are each fine in their place, but
I am a potter and I think I may find something a little denser with better thermal conducting properties in the realm of mullite or Cordierite-mullite blended. I want something that will act a little more like soapstone without the high cost and variability. If I can't find it, I will be using my dark colored cordierite mix.---george

George,

I have no knowledge on pottery making, except for a few things I made when I was in high school and a couple of things I made at a local pottery shop.  I didn’t even pay attention to how they were fired or even what temperatures were used.  That was a long while ago. 

If you ever look at some of my posts, you would see I am also still kinda wallowing in the mud in understanding all the variables that can go into making a pizza, stones, oven step-ups, hydration, flours, etc.  I have learned, but have much more to learn.

Scott and you have a much better grasp on what it takes to make a pizza stone or how they might act in different ovens.  I don’t know anything about nitrate bonded silicon carbide, but that stuff is sure expensive. 

Just keep experimenting and see what you come up with.  You never know, until you try.  I had a father that was very inventive and handy and I am almost sure some of his ideas could have been patented.  He made many tools, when he couldn’t find any that would work.  There wasn’t much he didn’t understand about anything.  All great inventions were started somewhere.  Hope your pizza stones work out!

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline GSpots

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2011, 05:36:16 PM »
Thanks again Norma. I joined this forum to learn from expert pizza bakers like you what they want in a stone, not to learn ceramic engineering. I already can make a superior grade of cordierite that is workable. What I need to know is what makes oven spring and can a denser stone help? What size stone would be usable to the most bakers? Should I
stick to the common 16" diameter and 14" by 16" rectangles or would bigger be better? Is thicker better?  I am bugging you all about these things because I am making a bunch of stones to test within the next month or so. My test data on
the materials says I am making really good stuff, but the proof will be in the pie.

If anyone reading this thread has any ideas about what kind of stone they would like to see please pipe up. Don't worry about the ceramics part, just tell me what would make the stones you have used better for you. I don't have another lifetime to try to become an expert baker so I need help.       george

Online norma427

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17402
  • Location: Dutch Country, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2011, 08:23:47 PM »
Thanks again Norma. I joined this forum to learn from expert pizza bakers like you what they want in a stone, not to learn ceramic engineering. I already can make a superior grade of cordierite that is workable. What I need to know is what makes oven spring and can a denser stone help? What size stone would be usable to the most bakers? Should I
stick to the common 16" diameter and 14" by 16" rectangles or would bigger be better? Is thicker better?  I am bugging you all about these things because I am making a bunch of stones to test within the next month or so. My test data on
the materials says I am making really good stuff, but the proof will be in the pie.
     george


George,

I am not really an expert pizza baker, but learning. I only can tell you I have a pizza stone like this one pictured here. http://www.webstaurantstore.com/american-metalcraft-ps1575-round-pizza-baking-stone-15-3-4/124PS1575.html  If I had thought about it more, before I decided to buy the pizza stone for home, I probably would have bought the bigger rectangular one like this.  http://www.webstaurantstore.com/american-metalcraft-ps1416-rectangular-pizza-baking-stone-14-x-16/124PS1416.html   

This is also my deck oven stone pictured at Reply 742  3rd picture down http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg124568.html#msg124568   and pictured many other places on the forum.

At Reply 621 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg110444.html#msg110444 I used a combination of soapstone and my regular pizza stone in my home oven, which only gets a little over 500 degrees F. 

At Reply 43 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11133.msg101405.html#msg101405 and many other posts on that thread,  I used different combinations of firebricks and sometimes a steel pan with firebricks on top.

My regular pizza stone at Reply 22 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11543.msg107555.html#msg107555

A pie I baked on soapstone in my convection oven at Reply 33 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11543.msg107949.html#msg107949

I have also baked in my friend Steve’s WFO. 

There are many other pictures on this forum of different oven set-ups I used, but would think each persons oven is different in how high of heat each oven can get, the size of the oven, whether it is gas, electric, convection, a combination, or many other variables.  When I think about it, how do you plan on making a pizza stone that will be able to bake in all these kinds of ovens and also with ovens like mine at home, that are lower in temperature?  Many other members also have their preferences of what kind of pizza stones they like or the different oven-set ups they use.

This is only my opinion, but oven spring can come from many things, not all heat.  The dough formula, what the hydration is, flour or flours used, ingredients, managing your dough, stretch and folds or reballs, how the dough is handled, how you open a skin and so many more variables.  I really don’t know if a denser stone can help.

Maybe other members also can tell you what they like, and also their experiences in their kinds of ovens or what they might be looking for in a pizza stone.

If you test data says you are making really good stuff, then if you try the pizza stones in different ways, maybe you can find out what is best. 

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Bobino414

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 205
  • Location: Florida
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2011, 12:43:08 AM »

Hi George

I bake in a deck oven.  Unfortunately the Cordierite stones supplied by Blodgett (1.7), Cecilware (1.7) and Baker's Pride (2.2) are of low density as noted.  I have called various importers and distributors and am unable to find a high density Cordierite stone i.e. density of 2.6 or greater.  Most of these stones come from China.  Some distributors will advertise high density but when you do the math they are not.  I borrowed a 2.86 density stone which seemed to yield better results.  I have also tried soapstone-3 cm thick and was not satisfied with the results or additional heat up time. 

So if you can make a 20" x 20" 5/8" thick or maybe 3/4" thick, high density Cordierite stone I am interested.

Bob

Offline GSpots

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2011, 08:29:37 AM »
Hello Bob. What you said gives me good information.  According to their web site. blodgett no longer supplies cordierite decks with their ovens. The density I am talking about I actually calculate by dividing the weight into the volume of a sample. My Old Stone Oven stone is 1.9 which is exactly what my cordierite mix is. I can do 20"x20"x 5/8" or 3/4" if that size fits your oven it would be a great test for my
material. How many tiles would your oven use. Could use mine side by side with something else for testing? As mentioned above, I don't think there is any such thing as porous cordierite with density over 2.0. Who knows what the Chinese are calling cordierite. I believe I can get the density up to about 2.5 with a blend of cordierite and mullite or a very high mullite stoneware body. I am testing that stuff this month to see if I can keep the thermal expansion of such a mix low. I will keep you informed with my progress. In the mean time I have to work on making a living. Thanks for your response.     george

Offline Tampa

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 325
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2011, 04:32:10 PM »
George,
Thanks for the post.  I'm Bob's neighbor (and would be friend - if he would just put some dang ingredients on his pizza once and a while ;D).  Bob borrowed my "Old Stone Oven" circular (15 3/4") stone a few times to try in his deck oven.  The results were significantly better than the lighter stone that came with the unit.  "Better" in this case means more uniform heat (fewer hot spots) and quicker bake time (underside) so that both the top and bottom of the pie were done at the same time.  Bob has been seeking a larger rectangular stone that approximates the cooking characteristics of this stone, but bigger - in a 20"x20" size.  We weighed my Old Stone and calculated the volume (difficult because of the irregular bottom side - see pic) and estimated the density to be 2.86.  Bob did the calc, and I remember he was using metric units (g/cm*3?).  It could be that since the stone you are creating is similar to the "Old Stone" you have, that your creation performs the same as mine.  I'm guessing you use those american units of measure instead of Bob's progressive metric system.  Come to think of it, if Bob were that progressive he'd be using neo-ingredients.  How did you measure density?
Dave

Offline GSpots

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2011, 08:53:57 PM »
Hello Dave, All my testing is done on strips of clay samples that start out 1"X12"x5/8" wet and shrink some as they dry and are fired. Some mixtures shrink more than others so I set up a graduated 500 cc beaker with water in it and the volume is the amount the water rises in the column when I drop in the sample. This is more accurate than it sounds and is easily double checked if the numbers look strange. Of course I weigh the sample first while it is dry. Then I divide weight by the volume of water to get specific gravity. My Old Stone Oven sample was sawed off of a rectangular stone I purchased on line a few months ago. The test strips are primarily used in my thermal expansion tester which is basically a miniature tubular furnace fired by a propane torch. I heat the strips red hot (about 1600 F.) and measure the growth in a 10" long section. The same test strips then can be used to test for anything else I need to know. I have tested over 20 ways to make cordierite. Some mixes are almost exactly conforming to the  51.4 SiO2, 34.8 Al2O3, 13.8 MgO chemical analysis of pure cordierite if you assume complete conversion of the ingredients during firing. My Old stone oven sample has a specific gravity of exactly 1.9. I suspect that the legs they put on their stones are just so they can stack them in pile for firing. The legs would allow air circulation for proper burn out of organic stuff. I am trying to make a material that will outperform that. Mine is dark brown in color for faster radiant heating and I expect to use a heavy texture of concentric rings on the back side of round stones to almost double the surface area for faster heat up and recovery. If at the same time, I can perfect a denser material with good thermal shock properties, I believe I can make a better baking stone than is now available. In about 2 weeks I will have done another round of tests with some denser materials. Then I will feel better about making Bob's square stone. If I can't beat my best cordierite mix, I will start making stones out of that to get some real world feed back on performance. Thanks for your interest.            george

Offline shuboyje

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 801
  • Location: Detroit
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2011, 12:24:15 PM »
I think your stones look top notch and you seem to have great skills, equipment and knowledge.  I say all this because I'm not a stone in a home oven guy, I'm a wood fired oven guy.  We have lots of options for pizza stones here already but what we have no options for are purpose built oven floors, and I think you are just the guy to change that.  A fired 4 section round floor would be a great thing to have on the market here.  That's exactly what they have in Italy, you could be first on board here.
-Jeff

Offline GSpots

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2011, 12:42:32 PM »
Thanks Jeff, Just this morning I was thinking my niche may be custom made stones in addition to a range of standard size stones. Because I am just a one man operation, I can't wholesale them anyway. As you may have read above, I am still perfecting the material I will use.  I may offer a few options of different densities and porosities. How thick are the tiles on the floor of a typical wood fired oven? Around here, there is a company using huge clay ovens with a soapstone hearth to make flat bread.

Within a few months, I hope to be in production with the stones so keep me in mind.

Offline wheelman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 593
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2011, 02:05:17 PM »
shuboyge brings up an interesting point.  the WFO floors of choice are usually 4 pieces, 2" thick.  having tried those as well as fire brick i believe that the cast ones work much better.  i think they are known as biscotti di sorrento.  i would definately look for such a floor if i were to build another oven. 
i don't know anything about ceramics but wondered if you could compress the mold with a press to increase the density. 
interesting thread George.  thanks for posting. 
bill

Offline Bobino414

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 205
  • Location: Florida
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2011, 02:23:44 PM »

George

The material Blodgett is using is called Ultra Rokite.  The density I mentioned is calculated from their stated size and weight.  I spoke with their technical support dept and asked them to direct me to a site that has the physical, mechanical, and thermal properties.  They told me all info re: this stone is propietary.  So no help.  The tech service guy told me he has been doing this for many years and has never been asked about Rokite properties; I can only guess no pizzamaking.com forum member uses a Blodgett with this stone(there was a time they used Cordierite).

To add to Bill's question will your stones be extruded or compressed.

Right now I am munching on a 20 oz. corned beef sandwich that was overnighted from Carnegie deli in N.Y.; pizza does have competition !!!

Bob

Offline Tampa

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 325
Re: The Ideal Pizza Stone?
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2011, 02:35:48 PM »
GSpots,

I understand your density measurement and thermal expansion.  I really like that you are doing this work and I think Bobino could benefit from your design.  Let's get one down here.

I'm still wondering what units you are using to measure density.  Is it say, grams per cubic centimeter or ounces per square inch or ?  I think I'm right in asking this question because the ratio depends on the units (english or metric).  Also, I'm glad you described your method of measure because it is more accurate than the one we used: bathroom scale, and tape measure for volume (some of which is irregular, as you can see from the picture).  Maybe we are off 10% or so, which is why I think the units of measure is the difference assuming your "Old Stone" is the same as my "Old Stone".

Dave


 



pizzapan