Author Topic: May have solved my Dough stretching problem  (Read 639 times)

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Offline islandguy

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May have solved my Dough stretching problem
« on: September 10, 2014, 07:11:43 PM »
I'm not an expert Pizza maker, having made only  about 100 pizzas in my WFO.  This past Month, I've had a lot of trouble stretching the dough out.  I've tried all kind of flour. KABF, KA AP, gold bond and a flour from Italy called "Farina 00".  I live in Mexico and have few choices of well known flours.  I've tried different recipes, etc
Today, it donged on me.   All my problems started when I got my new KA stand mixer.  Before that, I was hand mixing and never had a problem.
My KA came with two dough mixing tools.  A paddle and a dough hook.  I've been mixing with the paddle.
I saw a video that said the paddle was best and took half the time.
I'm now wondering if I'm over mixing the dough.
If a dough recipe calls for mixing on slow for 5 min, then rest for 10 min, etc
Is this with a dough hook or paddle?
I read somewhere if you over knead the dough, the gluten will set up and it will be hard to work.
Tomorrow, I'm going to try using just the hook.  If my dough is still hard to work, I'll go back to hand mixing and put my KA in the back room.


Offline mitchjg

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Re: May have solved my Dough stretching problem
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2014, 07:28:16 PM »
I always use both.  For the initial mix, which lasts maybe a minute or so, I use the paddle.  That gets everything mixed really fast and easy, with no dry spots in the flour, etc.  Then, I rest it a bit.  From then on, I only use the dough hook.

If using only one, I would only use the dough hook.

Maybe you got it!

- Mitch

Offline islandguy

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Re: May have solved my Dough stretching problem
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2014, 08:59:40 PM »
I always use both.  For the initial mix, which lasts maybe a minute or so, I use the paddle.  That gets everything mixed really fast and easy, with no dry spots in the flour, etc.  Then, I rest it a bit.  From then on, I only use the dough hook.

If using only one, I would only use the dough hook.

Maybe you got it!

- Mitch

Mitch
Which dough recipe are using?
 Why do you switch?  Why not stay with the paddle, just use a shorter time
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 09:26:41 PM by islandguy »

Offline mitchjg

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Re: May have solved my Dough stretching problem
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2014, 09:44:46 PM »
I really don't know the science.  I think you have a greater chance of over mixing with the paddles.  I also find that, once it is all mixed and homogenous and the dough has rested a bit, that the paddle can spin round and round and not really cut through the dough like the dough hook.  So, I think you get a more thorough and gentler mix with the dough hook.  But, again, I really don't know - habit.

Everything I read is that most use the dough hook.  There must be a reason it has that name!

Recipe?  I do lots.  Sometimes I make the dough by hand.  Sometimes in the food processor.  Sometimes in the KA.  I really only use the KA when I am preparing more than a couple of doughs -when we are having friends come over.  If it is just a couple of doughs, I go by hand or in the food processor.  One is more "fun" and the other is faster and easier.

When I do it in the KA, I usually mix with the paddle for a minute or 2.  Then, rest for about 10 minutes.  Then knead with the dough hook on a slow speed for about 10.  By then, it is usually a nice ball, but a little rough.  I rest it again and then hand knead for a very short period of time.  Done!

Depending on the dough, I then put it in containers and then the fridge.  Or, I put it in a big container for a bulk fermentation at room temperature or cooler (64).

If you look at Jeff Varasano's NY Recipe website, he outlines the process that I mostly follow.  I don't necessarily follow the ingredients but I follow the process, at least directionally.

I can be more specific if you like, no problem.  Just staying on the process since that is what you were focussed on.

- Mitch
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 09:46:23 PM by mitchjg »

Offline rparker

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Re: May have solved my Dough stretching problem
« Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 09:49:01 PM »
islandguy, apologies for bringing up an aging thread, but was wondering if the less kneading with the KA solved your issue? I use the KABF and have run into the same issue. I do have a batch in the fridge that has been worked with considerably less than the last few, but I've got a few more days to wait. 

Offline islandguy

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Re: May have solved my Dough stretching problem
« Reply #5 on: Today at 02:01:30 AM »
Yes, my problem has been solved.  I use the paddle to mix the dough while its dry (yeast, salt, oil, etc) then I switch to the hook and run the mixer on slow for a very short time will I add the water.  Less than a minute. 
Works great for me.

Offline rparker

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Re: May have solved my Dough stretching problem
« Reply #6 on: Today at 08:20:11 AM »
Yes, my problem has been solved.  I use the paddle to mix the dough while its dry (yeast, salt, oil, etc) then I switch to the hook and run the mixer on slow for a very short time will I add the water.  Less than a minute. 
Works great for me.
Thanks for the reply. It's also quite good to hear. The mixing reduction strategy is one of my current experiments in the fridge. It's one of those slow, cold ferment formula, so won't get to try until Sunday at earliest.

Offline mitchjg

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Re: May have solved my Dough stretching problem
« Reply #7 on: Today at 09:02:10 AM »
Yes, my problem has been solved.  I use the paddle to mix the dough while its dry (yeast, salt, oil, etc) then I switch to the hook and run the mixer on slow for a very short time will I add the water.  Less than a minute. 
Works great for me.

If I am reading this right, the paddle is only used for dry.  This helps ensure the dry ingredients are distributed homogeneously.  You may as well use a whisk or a fork, etc.  Then, you say you add the water and use the dough hook, right?   That really means you are only using the dough hook for mixing dough.  Fair enough, that seems ok.  But then I read you only mix for one minute on slow.   That sounds very very under mixed unless you are doing something else in addition - hand kneading for example. 

If it works for you, then I think we are all glad.   But, rparker: mixing dough on slow speed for one minute with a dough hook does not seem like it will likely give you a good result. 

Offline rparker

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Re: May have solved my Dough stretching problem
« Reply #8 on: Today at 12:40:52 PM »
If I am reading this right, the paddle is only used for dry.  This helps ensure the dry ingredients are distributed homogeneously.  You may as well use a whisk or a fork, etc.  Then, you say you add the water and use the dough hook, right?   That really means you are only using the dough hook for mixing dough.  Fair enough, that seems ok.  But then I read you only mix for one minute on slow.   That sounds very very under mixed unless you are doing something else in addition - hand kneading for example. 

If it works for you, then I think we are all glad.   But, rparker: mixing dough on slow speed for one minute with a dough hook does not seem like it will likely give you a good result.
Thanks, Mitchjg. Good point. It's dough, not muffin batter. :)

I think it's possible, but the batch size would probably have a lot to do with it. That, and maybe a really good side-scraping technique. 

Anyhow, I was chasing clues about the concept of over-mixing in combination with using KABF. The batch I put in the fridge yesterday had considerably less hand-mixing. It's a glutenboy formula, which includes staging the flour. Most of the mixing stages have approximate times, like "couple of minutes" kind of thing. I probably could have done just hook, but I stayed with the paddle for the first stage. I wanted the only difference between this batch and the batch I did the day before to be mixing times.