Author Topic: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video  (Read 18102 times)

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PaulsPizza

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2011, 01:54:29 PM »
Great videos Chau! 6oz of salt per gallon you said I think? I will convert that and see if I am using similar amounts to you.
Thanks again,

Paul
« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 02:01:26 PM by PaulsPizza »


Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2011, 10:24:06 PM »
Norma, thank you for posting that.  Outside this forum, I really don't read too much about pizza.  I ALWAYS appreciate the links you post so please keep posting them. 

When I did try heavy cream in the water, I didn't add a lot fearing it would interfere with how the cheese stretched but after the fact it did not appear to.  I also did note an increase in creaminess but it wasn't much and not really that detectable after freezing and thawing. 

I do remember reading on the forum that Roberto add's milk to his water for stretching curd.  It's  good to know that Giulio Adriana uses milk instead of water.  I can see how that would make a cheese even creamier.  By itself the polly-o is plenty creamy BUT next time I run out of cheese and make more I will definitely use salted milk instead of salt water.  Milk is fairly inexpensive and won't bump the cost up much at all if doing 10lbs at a time. 

Also I love the way his pizza looks especially that margherita and marinara pie.

Thanks Paul -  Yes 6 oz per gallon of water.  I usually use 3 oz per 2 quarts of water.   Member Bobino gave me that number and I like it and haven't made any adjustments.

Chau 

Offline Bobino414

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2011, 12:24:04 AM »

Paul

The 6 oz. per gallon of water cited by Chau came from a series of experiments.  An internet search on making mozz will show that the addition of salt is not consistent.
As I think the addition of salt is critical for flavor, I compared my fresh mozz with no salt, 3 oz./, 4 oz./, 5oz./ and 6 oz./ gallon of water.  The 6 oz./ gallon was right for my taste. 
I was fortunate to spend a few hours with a mozz master (50+ years of experience).
He does not mix any salt in with the water when melting or stretching the curd.  After forming, the cheese balls rest in cool water and at time of sale are dipped into an intense brine solution. 
Chau modified what I was doing when he decided to melt the curd without salted water, as the master does, but at the time of stretching used the brined water.  This works for him.  For my next batch I will try the Chau mod.

Bob


PaulsPizza

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2011, 06:54:43 AM »
Thanks Chau and Bob.


Bob, in the video Chau made didn't he use the same water for melting and stretching? was it all brined?
I will have to re-watch it and see.

Thanks guys,

Paul

Offline thezaman

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2011, 07:16:48 PM »
Well I didn't do to well on my first attempt. Yellow in my water. Cooked out some butter fat. The cheese melted a little funny. I think my water was to hot. Also when I washed the curd my dishroom water is a lot hotter than a home sink . Making another batch tomorrow . Your method is similar to the poly o video  it is on youtube

Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2011, 08:34:24 PM »
My tap is pretty hot as well.  Larry it is normal that the curd water turns slightly yellow.  That is to be expected.  FWIW it took me about 5 sessions (20lbs) before I felt comfortable with everything.

Larry, this method came from watching various videos including the Polly O video and exchanging ideas with Bobino and another friend in NY.

If you watch the Polly O videos carefully, you'll see that at one point when he goes to pinch off the ball, the ball puts up a good fight.  To me, this is too much tension in the cheese.

Chau
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 08:20:56 AM by Jackie Tran »

PaulsPizza

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2011, 03:39:38 PM »
Chau, do you use pure brine water for each stage of your curd to mozz making protocol?  I was just curious because we can't buy curd in England, it's either make it from raw milk or buy it processed.

Thanks again for the great videos.

Paul

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2011, 05:41:39 PM »
Chau, excellent videos!

Yes, the higher temps are more applicable to larger batches of cheese.....like 20+ pounds at a time. Otherwise, it is very difficult to work that much cheese at lower temps.

You have shown a key that a certain Nonna I know says it critical...."when you make the individual pieces, you want to handle it like a baby". For all the reasons you cited....give to the tooth, trying to avoid being too tough, etc.

Hopefully one day you will give it a whirl with fresh, raw milk. It's really the bees knees at that point, but your mozzarella looks really top notch. Bravo!  :D
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Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2011, 12:01:13 AM »
Thank you so much Kelly.  I would love more than anything to try mozz from fresh raw milk.  I bet it is fantastic.

When considering temperature and mozz cheese making we really have to make a distinction between water temperature and cheese temperature.  I believe that when the experts talk about temps of 170F-200F, they are really talking about water temps and not cheese temps.  The water temps that I was adding in the video is 185F, so that definitely falls in the range the pros are using if they are referring to water temps.

There is no way in hell they are talking about actual cheese temps.  There is a simple test for anyone to do next time they are making cheese to see this for themselves.  Drop a few pieces of curd directing into a pot of hot water at 180-200F, stir it around and witness the curd almost disintegrate.  This is true cheese temp of 180-200F.  It would be practically impossible to stretch cheese at a cheese temp of 180-200F.  I have tried and wasn't able to do it.  If anyone can, please make a video and post it here.  In my video, after the cheese had absorb the heat from the water and the temps had drop down to below 150F (true cheese temp), you can see at 5:15 - 5:18, the outer layers of curd that is in contact with the hot water is almost liquid.  It is stringing off readily even at these "low" temps.  And this is even a tad too hot for me.  For stretching, I'm really stretching at a cheese temp of 135-140F and an initial water temp of 185F.  You can see how the cheese reacts at a true temp of 135-140F.  The higher the cheese temp, the more liquid and fluid it will be.   At a true cheese temp of 180-190F, the cheese would likely be very runny and oozing out between the fingers, no matter how much cheese you are making.  

For a bigger curd mass, I can definitely see adding water temps of 200F+, BUT I'm pretty sure that temp drops fairly quickly as the large mass of cheese absorbs much of the heat.  It would stand to reason that the water temp would drop to below 150F as the cheese absorbs the heat.  I believe true cheese/stretching temps are much lower than what is reported by the pros, and they are reporting initial water temps not stretching.

Yes, the higher temps are more applicable to larger batches of cheese.....like 20+ pounds at a time. Otherwise, it is very difficult to work that much cheese at lower temps.

I agree Kelly.  At 20lbs at a time, you definitely need to add higher temp water, but again that temp will drop way down as that mass absorbs much of the heat.  I just don't believe the pros are stretching at temps of over 150F and actually closer to 135-140F.  All process curd should react to heat in a very similar fashion.  I think we can actually predict with some accuracy the true stretching temps just by seeing how the cheese is stretching itself.  

I just watch the Polly O videos again.  After the curd was gone through the first cook and cooled for 5 minutes, he discards 2/3 of the cooled water and adds in water that is 160F.  Mixing with the previous 1/3 cooled water, the temps would drop to somewhere in the 140 range.  Judging by the look of the way the cheese is stretching in that bowl, I would estimate the water temp to be no higher than 140F at time of stretching.  The only thing I don't like about his technique is that he actually pulls on the cheese and handles it a bit roughly rather than letting the cheese stretch itself.  

http://www.polly-ofoodservice.com/videos.asp

Here are a few other excellent videos brother Bobino shared with me that has helped me greatly.  Much of my current technique is based on these videos.
Part 1

Part 2
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US&rdm=4nbx3tv4o#/watch?v=aJz9jUF5lQ8
part 3
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US&rdm=4nbx3tv4o#/watch?v=FYYss0tbFZs

As with the Polly 0 video, Sean also speaks to the importance of warming or heating up the curd slowly.  To prevent lost of butterfat.  I didn't speak about the disadvantages of stretching mozz at high temps yet but there are several.

First, if the water is too hot, you will likely have to wear gloves or not be able to handle the cheese for any length of time.  This is a great disadvantage b/c you when you lose contact with the cheese you don't get a proper feel of how the cheese is reacting to the water, how the cheese is stretching, and you don't get an accurate assessment on the proper feel of the cheese.

2ndly, the higher the temps the more butter fat you will lose to the water.  You will always loose some butterfat when stretching even at 135-140F, but the less you lose the creamier the cheese.  The more butterfat you lose due to excessive high stretching temps, the less creamy a product.  The goal is a creamy tender cheese, not the opposite.

3rd, the higher the water temp, the more liquid the cheese becomes and the harder it is too handle.  You will inadvertently overstretch or overfold the cheese to redevelop the strength.  It's just like making dough.  If the hydration is too high it can be easier to over develop the gluten by overcompensating and kneading too much.  Over stretching cheese makes for a tougher cheese especially after the cool down.  It becomes almost like rubber.  There are certain store bought brands that are very rubbery after the cool down.  
I personally don't like this.  I like a cheese to give easily to the the teeth even after the cool down.  

The one disadvantage to under handling the cheese as I do is that it has a hard time retaining it's ball shape. I get around this by dropping them into salted ice water, and then wrapping the balls in plastic after they have cooled a bit.  This still allows for a creamy tender cheese that stays round.  

Chau
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 02:21:07 PM by Jackie Tran »


Offline texmex

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2011, 09:28:14 AM »
Your presentation is so well done, it does seem easy - especially after seeing your calm demeanor in these videos. 
Reesa

Offline SquirrelFlight

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2011, 03:40:58 PM »
how do you make the curd?

It involves processing milk with an enzyme called rennet.  There is all kinds of information on it at http://www.cheesemaking.com/.  They have a "30-minute mozzarella" recipe that doesn't produce "real" mozzarella, but teaches some of the basics of cheesemaking.  One note if you feel like trying: the 30 minutes assumes you have access to "cheese strength" rennet.  The stuff you can buy at the local grocery store (at least anywhere I've lived) is much weaker, and it takes between 2 and 3 hours to form usable curd (maintaining the correct temperature the whole time).  I experimented a bit last year, and ended up with passable results... although I wasn't able to try it in pizzamaking.  It's a fair amount of work, and it takes a fairly large amount of milk for not-so-much cheese/curd;  it may just be easier to just go out and buy some, like has already been suggested, and skip the messy parts.  That said, later this year, I think I may begin experimenting again...

Offline scott r

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2011, 11:44:24 PM »
hey, does anyone know what brand of curd the guy in the video is using?   he says its from buzzards bay ma, which is very close to where I live, but I don't know about any mozzarella producers here.   

Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2012, 10:33:46 PM »
Just found this video on youtube.  I like how this guy makes his mozz, plus he wraps it just like I do.



Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2012, 10:46:28 PM »
Good find.  I wonder if he has any feeling left in his hands? :chef:
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Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2012, 10:52:15 PM »
Good find.  I wonder if he has any feeling left in his hands? :chef:

Gene, the numbness is only temporary I'm sure.   :-D

Here is a pizza I made recently with cheese that has been frozen and thawed from the batch I made when I made the videos in post 1.




Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2012, 11:05:48 PM »
Nice.  Looks like it was freshly made.
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Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2012, 06:53:28 AM »
Just found this video on youtube.  I like how this guy makes his mozz, plus he wraps it just like I do.

That was a great video. I have to laugh every time he calls it "muzadell", because that is what my NYC side of the family called it when I was growing up. In fact my mother just called it that a few days ago. How that word got twisted for the entire NY area including New Jersey is beyond me.

John


Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2012, 12:32:39 PM »
Chau - Have you ever frozen the actual curd itself for stretching later?

John

Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2012, 12:41:01 PM »
John I have and it makes for a good product if the curd is well protected, but the more common practice is to freeze the xtra cheese rather than the curd.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2012, 01:32:06 PM »
Thanks Chau - I have 22 pounds of curd coming from a local producer, so I will just do a big batch and see what happens. I appreciate you documenting your experience here, as it has been tremendously helpful.

John

Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2012, 01:49:41 PM »
Your welcome John.  I'd do 2lb batches at a time to get the feel down before doing all of it.  I also like to do 10lbs one day and then the other half several days later.  It's a 2-3 hour process but is very relaxing.

Offline moose13

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2012, 10:11:44 AM »
Hey great videos!
I made some fresh mozz today and i will not melt on a pizza, and ideas of what i did wrong?
I am thinking i did not heat and stretch enough. I used the microwave to heat as the directions said. Maybe i should do the hot water like you did in the video. I only had store bought whole milk and a cheese making kit and recipe.

Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #47 on: March 02, 2012, 10:35:30 AM »
Moose, while I never did buy the kit, I have tried many times and without success, make "good" homemade mozzarella using the same process. While I can make a homemade mozz with store bought milk that will melt on pizza, it just doesn't have the same texture, melt, and creaminess of a really good mozz.  I have read about other issues such as premature burning resembling that of a roasted marshmallow.  Personally, at this point I'm skeptical that it can be done effectively.  You can keep on trying as I did but in the end it was a wasted effort and wasted milk.  IMO, I think the problem lies with pasteurization of the milk.  It somehow changes it's ability to make good cheese.   As noted earlier in the thread, I have heard from a few members that were able to successfully make a good cheese using fresh raw milk.  I am not able to source raw milk here locally otherwise I would have tested it already.

I have tried with liquid rennet, which is suppose to be better than the tablets (junket rennet).  I have also tried adding calcium chloride to the milk.  I have tried adding live culture and allowing the cheese to curd slowly overnight as well.  All making cheese that is not worthy to place on any pizza.

My suggestion, is to ditch the cheese kit and buy pre made curd from restaurant depot or a food distributor of the like.  It is much easier, less expensive overall, and makes a much much better end product.   Something that will melt properly, look and taste like real mozz.

Moose, if you are able to make a mozz from home made curd you are happy with for use on pizza using this kit, or any other method I would love to hear about it. 

Good luck,
Chau
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 10:51:35 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline moose13

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #48 on: March 02, 2012, 11:09:46 AM »
Thanks for the great reply!
I live in a small town in Wyoming. Many miles from any real civilization (the main reason i started making my own pizza).
So, like many things here my options are limited. The local grocery store sells some pretty good fresh mozz, and probably makes sense just to buy it. I just thought it would be fun to try. I may try it again sometime. Thanks Chau!

Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Making fresh mozzarella from curd - Video
« Reply #49 on: March 02, 2012, 11:17:47 AM »
Thanks for the great reply!
I live in a small town in Wyoming. Many miles from any real civilization (the main reason i started making my own pizza).
So, like many things here my options are limited. The local grocery store sells some pretty good fresh mozz, and probably makes sense just to buy it. I just thought it would be fun to try. I may try it again sometime. Thanks Chau!

Moose you are welcome.  I agree it's always fun to try and learn new things, even if we learn that is not the way to do it.  I'll never fault anyone for experimenting, but rather encourage it.  I was just saving you a bit of time and money.  Believe me, I have tried the various different methods, along with 5-6 different brands of organic and non organic milk.  In the end it was truely wasted effort, time, and money.  I'm not saying it's impossible, but I am very skeptical at this point that it can be made easily.  

If you can source raw milk, I would definitely give that a try as you might have better luck.  

Store bought fresh mozz, typically costs about $6/lb here in NM and IMHO, are not as good as the Polly O cheese I make at home for around $3/lb.  The problem is sourcing the curd.  I have had a friend ship it to me during the winter time.   You also have to make a lot at once and store it in the freezer.  Fortunately it freezes and thaws well.  

Chau
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 12:58:54 PM by Jackie Tran »


 

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