Hello There. Very glad to be here. I respect the contributions of all involved.

[bfx9]

My name is Brad.
I'm a chef and a banker who is pursuing his passion for pizza.
IMO, Pizza is the most complete and satifying meal on the planet.
I just donated here and feel great about it!

Members such a pete-zza have impressed me to no end. the time and effort is honorable.

I am looking to open a pizza joint in the Rochester wasteland of thick crust, cheap cheesed, canned pre-made
sauce pizza's.

I come from Trenton, NJ. The holy grail of pizza to me is delorenzo's in the "berg". Papa's being a close number two
is still a light year ahead of anything in western, NY
Forger coal, or wood fired. Forget high temp or pizza with a ton of ingredients.
Delorenzo's is the king of gas fired, stone deck pizza at 600 degree's (from my spying) in the world.
Why they taste so good despite defying the tennets of the neopolitan or rustic pizza trade is a MYSTERY.

I don't know what they do or why, it is the stuff i dream about at night. the stuff that emotionally "effects"
me. I know i'm biased because of my roots and subjective nostalgia, but it has led me here with a happy heart.

We called pizza "tomato pies" or at least, "pizza pies"
These are my memories as a kid and as a 34 year old who just went down to pick their brains recently.

I am looking to pay homage to my "tomato pie" roots by doing that style of pizza here in upstate NY.
Cheese first, tomatoes last. thick cut pepperoni and crumbled raw sausage with fennel.
Olive oil (or a blend?) drizzled half way during the baking process.
"regular flour' I take that as AP flour? not low gluten 00.
tomatoes crushed, inconsistant in texture.some chunky pieces, some puree, naturaly sweet, a little salt, no herbs (at least i don't think)
the pie stands up to the olive oil because of the conservative amount of cheese and subsequent milk fat.
A frugal 2nd application of cheese added along with the olive oil halfway to completion.
Thin, leaoparded, charred, crispy crust without being dry or crackery. It has a crunch at the rim, a a slight crunch toward the middle.
pizza slice doesn't flop, although sometimes it may flop a little (If you have ton's of topping which I advise against)

I seek to find the right recipe here, with everyones help.
I can do much with what I already know, but the time and effort of those experimenting further than I can on these boards
will allow me to find the "reasons" and "causes" for such a wonderful product.
I respect the knowledge and reasoning here, for I have been lurking for some time.

Please ask me about delorenzo's, and maybe I can fill in more with regards to it's characturistics.
As nice as I am, I would cringe at offending the owners of delos by pushing too hard to get info.
but i've already done what I could respectfully and my zelousnous equates to a kid in a candy store!

so pete-zza, i may be bumping the delo's thread soon!

best wishes too all!


btw...i am guessing that a 3 day cold fermantation process is attributing to delorenzo's charring and crispyness.
but i do wonder if just cooking the pies "well done" is the secret?
the dough is very pliable when they hand form, which tells me the water or oil is high.
with a high oil or water hydration, how is the pizza not flopping?
I'm on a mission!

[scott123]

Hi Brad, welcome to the forum.

In my opinion, the single most defining aspect of Delorenzo's great pizza (and great pizza in general) is their 4 minute bake. In the Trenton pie thread

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7841.20.html

member BenLee writes

The reason I assume it's about 650-750 in their oven is the fact that their pizzas are cooked in about 4 minutes.

He's most likely wrong about the temperature, but it sounds like he (or someone else) has timed the pies. If you want to match the pies at home or professionally, this 4 minute bake is what you've got to match.

[Pete-zza]

so pete-zza, i may be bumping the delo's thread soon!

Brad,

LOL. I hope you do update the DeLorenzo thread with the latest information on the DeLorenzo pies.

A key point to remember is that the best information is almost always insider information. So, you should try to get as much information as you can from DeLorenzo workers, as supplemented by your own eyeballs.

To give you an example as to what I am talking about, I was recently in a Greek pizza restaurant in Massachusetts. I had never been there before and stopped by with a friend just to have a grinder for lunch on the way to an appointment. When I saw that the place made the Greek style of pizza, I started to chat up the owner behind the counter. I told him that I grew up on Greek pizza when I lived in the Northeast and that I now lived in Texas where that style of pizza is unknown, so, as a result, I made my own Greek style pizzas. I started asking him questions about their pizza and how they made it, starting with the flour. He was a little bit suspicious at first but he told me the flour they used. After a few more questions, he smiled at me and, somewhat sarcastically, asked me if I was with the CIA. I smiled back and told him that living in Texas I was no threat to his business. When he saw from my questions that I knew what I was talking about, he opened up a bit more but he was still a bit wary. For example, when I asked him how much water they used to make their dough, he said he could not tell me. But, about five minutes later, when he delivered the sandwiches to our table, apparently feeling sorry for me, he blurted out that it was 2 1/2 gallons. He also gave me and my friend a slice of cheese pizza to convince us that he had the best pizza in the area (actually he was right on this because, as I later discovered, his place was consistently rated as having the best pizza in the town).

By the time I left the store, I knew that they used 50 pound bags of Pillsbury 4X flour, 2 1/2 gallons of water, fresh yeast (which he insisted was the only yeast to use), oil, eggs and milk and that the amount of dough to make a 10" pizza was 8 ounces. The cheese used was white cheddar cheese only (I could not get the sauce details but was told that they did not use Stanislaus products). I did not ask the owner how much milk and eggs they used but knowing the water content of milk and eggs and typical hydration values for Greek style doughs, I think I can figure out most of the rest of the dough formula. I am sure that I will visit the store again the next time I am in the area and try the Greek pizza again. And maybe fill in some of the remaining blanks.

Peter

[dellavecchia]

To give you an example as to what I am talking about, I was recently in a Greek pizza restaurant in Massachusetts.

And you didn't give us Mass residents a PM so we could meet?  

John

[Pete-zza]

John,

Originally, scott r and I talked about such a meeting but the logistics did not allow us to do that. Hopefully, the next time I am up there.

Peter

[bfx9]

pete, that's a little slicker than I was during a recent visit to both locales.
I had an agenda to pay as much attention as possible, take notes and in the proccess,
i felt guilty or should I say, shy.
the white chedder reminds me of another tomato pie guy at the jersey shore who came from trenton.
but even though all the trenton pies are different, they still are cousins so to speak and share a few
characturistics.
they are thin, crispy, but not crackery. the inside

scott 123, the temp could be 650 at delo's, i'm 65% sure it's at least 600.
timing the bake is something I forgot to do!
i'm heading back that way soon to ask more questions.

i'd be willing to sit down with them and pay them 200.00 for a half hour, to just
pick their brain on technique, not neccessarily the exact recipe.

the dough may have 5% or more oil which at 600 to 650 may cause that pliable dough but crispy finished product.
i don't know.
being a culinary arts guy, i have a good working knowledge of baking arts, but am not at the level of folks here.
the desire and understanding with regards to pizza is there and it's only gonna grow from here.


thanks guys!

[bfx9]

i just called delorenzos in robbinsville. and the pies cook for 12-15 minutes in the oven
according to some italian sounding lad who answered the phone.

[GreenpointPizzaGuy]

Hey brad

I'm originally from rochester, NY. The pizza is absolutely terrible in that area. Good luck in your quest to bring great pizza to Rochester. When you've perfected it I'll have to try it when I get home.

Mark

[bfx9]

thanks mark.
our most notable pizza as you may know are:

marks, who uses a conveyor system and has thick bready pizza with cheap toppings and sugery sauce

salvatores, which uses a conveyor system and has oily, bready pizza and sugery sauce

pontillo's varies from franchise to franchise. they don't have to follow
a standard recipe. our's in canandaigua is homemade at least. overpriced.

all the crusts (rims) i just mentoned (execpt pontillos) taste like bread sticks, or pizza hut's rim.
bread like and soft with no little tangy pockets of air.

below is salvatores golden brown, dinner roll like crust.....blah.
                  

[scott123]

i just called delorenzos in robbinsville. and the pies cook for 12-15 minutes in the oven
according to some italian sounding lad who answered the phone.

I guarantee you, these are not 12-15 minute pizzas.  That's the typical 'wait' time for a NJ pizza.  As in,

"I'd like to order a large pepperoni pizza"
"Okay, that'll be 12-15 minutes"

They wouldn't be able to make any money with that bake time.

These pies are pretty crispy and rigid, and, generally speaking, rigidity is difficult to achieve in 4 minutes (although I haven't tested lower hydration/high oil doughs all that much), so maybe it's longer than a 4 minute bake, but it's not 12.

I don't know if you're in the area or have plans to be, but the only way to really know the bake time is to stand there and watch.

[bfx9]

you may be right.  I'm going down again this weekend.  to all 3.
and to papa's.
that would mean 600 plus oven temp. 

[scott123]

Don't forget your stopwatch 

[bfx9]

i wont!

[communist]

As Scott123 states, I agree that rigidity is difficult to achieve in a 4 minute puffy NY pie.  I admit that my 4 minute pies generally slump when held out, and when I get some sensation of crisp on the bottom I am happy.  If I get some rigidity, I am happily surprised.  Pete just let me know Delorenza puts the cheese on first.  Does that protect the crust from getting soggy from the sauce, and help with rigidity?