Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 181622 times)

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Offline Drgolf369

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1620 on: September 12, 2012, 10:24:14 PM »
Thanks so much. I will try it at my next bake
Joel

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1621 on: September 13, 2012, 04:09:20 PM »
Omid,

Have you tested out the new oven yet?  This thread has been pretty quiet lately!

Scott D.

Dear Scott, I have tried twice to bake pizzas in the oven; however, each time I received quasi-complaints from my neighbor about the smoke while I tried to warm up the oven. Hence, I ended up aborting the operation. San Diego has been quite hot for the past four weeks, and my neighbor, having a newborn infant and not having an AC, has no choice but to leave his windows (which are less than 20 feet from the flue pipe) open. I need to wait until the cold season arrive here in San Diego. Also, the wind direction will shift by then. Have a great day!
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1622 on: September 13, 2012, 04:31:20 PM »
Just to add a question
When I mix a 65% hydration dough with 00 Caputo flour, the end dough balls are very loose and cant be slapped into a disc.
I mix for 20 minutes with 2 resting periods, bench rest for 2 hours, ferment in a wine cellar at 58 drg for 2 days, form the balls and let the rest for 4-5 hours and then disc them. They are so loose that I can slap stretch them maybe 3-4 times and often get a few very small holes.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Joel

Dear Joel, I do not have enough data to make any sound diagnosis of your problems. However, as far as the "small holes" is the concern, make sure that your flour is not ill. If your flour is healthy, over-fermentation and over-production of organic acids (low pH) in your dough might be possible causes for the holes. Perhaps, that is why Peter asked you earlier, "What kind of yeast are you using and in what amount?" Feel free to call me. Good day!
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Online Ev

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1623 on: September 13, 2012, 05:25:08 PM »
Dear Scott, I have tried twice to bake pizzas in the oven; however, each time I received quasi-complaints from my neighbor about the smoke while I tried to warm up the oven. Hence, I ended up aborting the operation. San Diego has been quite hot for the past four weeks, and my neighbor, having a newborn infant and not having an AC, has no choice but to leave his windows (which are less than 20 feet from the flue pipe) open. I need to wait until the cold season arrive here in San Diego. Also, the wind direction will shift by then. Have a great day!

 Sorry to hear that. It must be very frustrating. :(

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1624 on: September 13, 2012, 06:42:01 PM »
Omid, if money permits, you can always get one of these http://www.flameengineering.com/Back-pack_Kits.html. You can fire up the oven with little to no smoke because of the heat being so hot. Once started you'll only have momentary smoke when adding a piece of wood while baking.

Heres a video of Bill using his to start his oven.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isbfZSC_5Pk" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isbfZSC_5Pk</a>

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1625 on: September 13, 2012, 06:55:14 PM »
Omid, if money permits, you can always get one of these http://www.flameengineering.com/Back-pack_Kits.html. You can fire up the oven with little to no smoke because of the heat being so hot. Once started you'll only have momentary smoke when adding a piece of wood while baking.

Heres a video of Bill using his to start his oven. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isbfZSC_5Pk


They are great for lighting, but they won't stop your oven from smoking unless you leave it in there running until the oven is at full temperature or close to it. You don't need to spend anywhere near that much either. Home Depot has more powerful ones at a fraction of the cost. This is the one I use. http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100341111/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=weed+burner&storeId=10051
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Online Jackie Tran

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1626 on: September 14, 2012, 09:32:29 AM »
To this I would also ask what is your mixing process and typical batch size (how much flour).

My dough is as soft and extensible as you describe. I like it this way.

If you lower your hydration to 56% or so, you might have the dough you want with no other changes.

CL

Craig is correct.  You need to lower your hydration.  I would go down to 62%, then 60% if you are keeping everything else the same.  You can also try doing a longer bulk period and balling when the dough has risen a bit more.  That will give you more end strength in the dough.  But first I would lower your hydration, then bulk longer if you still need to. 

Chau

Offline Drgolf369

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1627 on: September 14, 2012, 10:05:06 AM »
Jackie
Do you mean I should increase the bench rise?
If I ball after the bench rise and set them in the wine cellar for 2 days, I think I will end up with flat pancakes, yes?
Thanks, Joel

Offline Drgolf369

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1628 on: September 14, 2012, 10:12:37 AM »
Omid
I just found you phone number. What is a good time to call?
As a side note, I am getting used to the Santos which handles dough differently than the planetary mixers. Even with 2 rest periods, the dough never comes out smooth.
I have been experimenting with bread and ofcourse eating too much of it. The artisan bread with big eyes is fantastic. Even my old style pizza dough with 55% hydration is great.
Joel

Offline flyboy4ual

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1629 on: September 19, 2012, 08:42:01 PM »
Omid,
I am sorry to hear about your smoke issue with the neighbors.  I can't wait to see the results when you finally get a chance to fire the oven up on a regular basis.  Maybe offering your neighbors some of your great pizza will make them more tolerant of the smoke.  Good luck with everything.

Scott D.



Online Jackie Tran

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1630 on: October 02, 2012, 08:15:16 AM »
Jackie
Do you mean I should increase the bench rise?
If I ball after the bench rise and set them in the wine cellar for 2 days, I think I will end up with flat pancakes, yes?
Thanks, Joel

Yes Joel, try Increasing your bench rise time until you see 10-20% rise in the bulk of the dough prior to making the balls.  Depending on how much yeast you are using and the temp of fermentation, this time can vary drastically.  Feel free to pm me as to not derail Omid's thread.

Chau
« Last Edit: October 02, 2012, 08:17:32 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline fornographer

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1631 on: October 04, 2012, 05:20:01 AM »
Omid, has the weather cooled down enough (so your neighbor can close their windows) and have you had a chance to cook your pies in the WFO?  I am dying to see your pizzas and reading about the oven experience.

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1632 on: October 06, 2012, 06:33:38 PM »
Here in San Diego, the weather has just begun to become colder. (Last Tuesday, the local temperature was over 90ºF and inside my patio, where the oven is, about 105º F.) Hopefully it will be cold enough for me to bake some pizzas by the end of October. Good day!
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pulcinella

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1633 on: October 10, 2012, 06:08:41 PM »
Hi Omid. How do you make your dough balls after first fermentation is over? The dough ball pictures you previously posted here show very smooth balls. what's your method? thank you

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1634 on: October 11, 2012, 02:46:58 PM »
Here in San Diego, the weather has just begun to become colder. (Last Tuesday, the local temperature was over 90ºF and inside my patio, where the oven is, about 105º F.) Hopefully it will be cold enough for me to bake some pizzas by the end of October. Good day!


Dear Pulcinella, the method that I employ in making dough balls is demonstrated in the following youtube video:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxFf70__8ls" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxFf70__8ls</a>


Please, let me make some very brief comments. Fundamentally speaking, in my estimation, making a healthy and smooth dough ball begins with properly mixing and kneading the dough ingredients (water, salt, fermentative agent, and flour) at the outset. Next, it entails reaching a proper point of pasta after mixing and kneading. Furthermore, the subsequent rest period and initial fermentation—which will essentially carry your point of pasta to the next levels of dough development—play indispensable roles in developing the dough structure/anatomy (i.e., proper dough flesh and dough skin) that is conducive to crafting smooth dough balls. In other words, smooth dough balls can be formed when the dough has developed the following attributes up to a point:

1. Elasticity,
2. Extensibility,
3. Cohesiveness,
4. Gluten film development, and
5. Receptivity to forming

At last, employment of proper manual skills, using whatever method you use, is important in making uninterrupted dough balls. Below are two pictures of the dough balls I formed in the video. The first picture exhibits the dough balls at the outset of the final fermentation, and the second picture shows the dough balls after 22 hours of the final fermentation at controlled room temperature. Have a great day!

Regards,
Omid
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 06:14:44 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Phar Lap

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1635 on: October 11, 2012, 09:16:13 PM »
Omid,

Great video...thanks!  Your dough ball formation methodology reminds of an earlier video I saw with Roberto C. of Keste.

I am really looking forward to seeing your progress with the Forno Piccolo. 

Adam

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1636 on: October 15, 2012, 04:37:28 PM »
Here is a trailer for an upcoming documentary about Neapolitan pizza and more. The title of the documentary is "Arrangiarsi", a concept that I think applies to the art of making Neapolitan pizza. Please, let's notify one another when the documentary is out. Good day!

<a href="http://vimeo.com/51355523" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://vimeo.com/51355523</a>
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 04:59:15 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Online Ev

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1637 on: October 15, 2012, 06:11:31 PM »
I enjoyed the trailer. Can't wait for the whole thing! ;D

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1638 on: October 17, 2012, 01:20:30 AM »
I enjoyed it too- thanks for posting this, Omid!
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline PizzaVera

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #1639 on: October 17, 2012, 07:35:09 AM »
[quote author=Pizza Napoletana lThe title of the documentary is "Arrangiarsi", a concept that I think applies to the art of making Neapolitan pizza.

actually Arrangiarsi means to survive by using your wits , getting by for little as possible or free from the land.