A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!

[sub]

Hi Omid,

There are a lot of useful things to dig out from the old posts on pizza.it with advanced search function.

Marco Parente aka Marco_1297698913

[thezaman]

omid next time you do a batch of dough save one or two balls and let them ferment at room temperature for a period of time or take one ball and tear it into small pieces and let it soak in half of your water for your next batch .if you stir it enough it will dissolve and proceed as normal ,see if that gives your dough more flavor or a more distinct flavor.
 i purchased a book about pasta madre which is the use of a piece of dough that is wrapped in cloth and dried. it is then reconstituted in water and is the base for the bread dough. have you ever heard of this practice? the flour company petra has put together a whole marketing plan for restaurants based on more exotic flour blends and methods. i believe in the above video with gino sorbillo is commenting on it use in Neapolitan pizza.

[andreguidon]

Larry, last time i made pizza, i made it only with natural fermentation, and i used the cloth method, i made a 50% hydration dough with no salt... and used it the next day for a 12h dough.

[thezaman]

andre, that looks great the book i am talking about is called la past madre. they do cultivate a starter from flour water and honey. they also look favorably on brewers yeast stating that it should be used sparingly to extend the rise times .
 tell me about your procedure!!!

[andreguidon]

Larry, what i did was take my sourdough out of the fridge, let it sit 3 hours then feed it with water and flour to make a 48~50% hydration dough (i made a 200g dough), this was around 10:30pm, so i made like a longer shape dough and rolled it with a nice tight cloth, than it sat for 8h, i took 10% of my total dough weight out of this SD in the cloth to make a 12h dough. all of this was made in a 24C room temperature.

[Pizza Napoletana]

omid next time you do a batch of dough save one or two balls and let them ferment at room temperature for a period of time or take one ball and tear it into small pieces and let it soak in half of your water for your next batch .if you stir it enough it will dissolve and proceed as normal ,see if that gives your dough more flavor or a more distinct flavor.
 i purchased a book about pasta madre which is the use of a piece of dough that is wrapped in cloth and dried. it is then reconstituted in water and is the base for the bread dough. have you ever heard of this practice? the flour company petra has put together a whole marketing plan for restaurants based on more exotic flour blends and methods. i believe in the above video with gino sorbillo is commenting on it use in Neapolitan pizza.

Dear Larry, I have some practical familiarity with the method of tightly wrapping a piece of dough in a cloth. I believe it is known as "legato". Here are a couple of videos I found on the subject on YouTube:

legatura della pasta madre

Lievito naturale legato

With regard to using old dough in preparing Neapolitan pizza dough, I think that it can yield good results; nonetheless, in my estimation, it can be a dicey or precarious enterprise depending on the zymological state of the old dough before incorporation, the percentage of the old dough incorporated in the final dough, the percentage of salt and hydration of the final dough, and other crucial factors. In my experience, there is a fine balance that needs to be maintained between all these factors; otherwise, the texture and flavor of the final product will be compromised to a lesser or greater degree. Good day!

Omid

[sub]

Napoli72 does great things with 24h old dough (Pasta di riporo )

 LA VERACE SECONDO NAPOLI72 - 24H TA E 20% PDR

[thezaman]

  omid, they had the caputo Criscito at  the show.it will be available in the US in a month or so. caputo recommends 50 grams per kilo of flour. the yeast stayed the same. i did not taste the product but pizza pasqualli,the Japanese guy was hand mixing a batch Wednesday night. 5 staggioni has the same product which the say they have had available for some time. i have never seen so many italian flour companies in my life. there must have been 6 to 8 brands being displayed. some very complex blends that were delicious. Antonino Esposito was making some killer pizza!!!

[thezaman]

picture of the product

[Jet_deck]

picture of the product

Thanks Larry.

[Pizza Napoletana]

Larry, last time i made pizza, i made it only with natural fermentation, and i used the cloth method, i made a 50% hydration dough with no salt... and used it the next day for a 12h dough.

Napoli72 does great things with 24h old dough (Pasta di riporo )

Dear Andre and Sub, those are beautiful pizzas. Thank you!

 

[Pizza Napoletana]

Omid, they had the caputo Criscito at  the show. It will be available in the US in a month or so. Caputo recommends 50 grams per kilo of flour. The yeast stayed the same. . . .

Dear Larry, I thank you for your report. I still do not clearly apprehend what Caputo's "Criscito" is specifically composed of, and what its specific objective is. If I am not mistaken, it appears that this product is some kind of active dry sourdough (akin to the commercial "active dry yeast") that (unlike Ed Wood's dried sourdough cultures available at http://www.sourdo.com) does not require preparation or development prior to adding it to the final dough. According to scattidigusto.it:

"'Da una base di lievito madre, seguendo il tradizionale metodo dei rinfreschi, si preleva un pezzo di impasto e, aggiungendo più volte solo ed esclusivamente acqua e farina, si ottiene un impasto con una concentrazione di lieviti naturali e lattobacilli ottimale che viene essiccato e macinato per realizzare Criscito naturale: il lievito madre in polvere', così recita la presentazione sulla confezione sottovuoto da un chilo. Le dosi consigliate sono 50 grammi di criscito per chilo di farina mentre rimane inalterata la quantità di lievito di birra abitualmente utilizzata (quindi si resta nell’ambito del disciplinare Stg), mentre la shelf life è di 16 mesi."

"'Following the traditional method of refreshment, adding only water and flour several times to the mother dough, you get a slurry with a concentration of optimum natural yeasts and lactobacilli, which is dried and ground to achieve natural Criscito: the mother-dough powder', says the presentation on the 1-kilo, vacuum-packed product. The recommended dose is 50 grams per kilo of flour while the amount of yeast [i.e., "lievito di birra" or commercial yeast] remains unchanged (so it remains within the specification Stg), and the shelf life is 16 months."

Source: http://www.scattidigusto.it/2013/01/21/criscito-vs-lievito-madre-per-la-migliore-pizza-naturale-al-sigep/

As unconventional as it sounds, Caputo's "Criscito" seems to be some kind of innovative product. Good day!

Omid

[Serpentelli]

Omid,

If  guy from Wilmington,NC comes into pizzeria Bruno this week it's b/c I told him to. Not sure if he will remember to introduce himself but one never knows!

I told him that he would be missing out on sampling some of the best pizza on the planet if he left San Diego without having you make some pies for him!

Hope he comes by....

John K

[Pizza Napoletana]

Omid,

If  guy from Wilmington,NC comes into pizzeria Bruno this week it's b/c I told him to. Not sure if he will remember to introduce himself but one never knows!

I told him that he would be missing out on sampling some of the best pizza on the planet if he left San Diego without having you make some pies for him!

Hope he comes by....

John K

Dear John, while I am highly wary of your characterization of my pizzas (i.e., "the best pizza on the planet"), I appreciate your confidence in me. And, as to the pizzas of Pizzeria Bruno, they are the fruits of labor of Mr. Peter, the owner of the pizzeria. He should be given the credit, not me. He is the sole engineer, and I do my earnest to help him in this enterprise. Good day!

Omid

[Pizza Napoletana]

Last night, I baked some pizzas (see the pictures below), using my own homemade dough and the Ferrara oven at Pizzeria Bruno. Here's the basic recipe:

Caputo '00' Pizzeria Flour (Datum Point)
Water: 65%
Sea Salt: 2.8%
Fresh Yeast: 0.07%

Mixer Used: Santos Fork Mixer

Initial Fermentation: 12 hours at room temperature (74-76°F)
Final Fermentation: 12 hours at room temperature (69-72°F)

Final Dough Ball Temperature before bake: 71°F
Dough Ball Weight: about 260 to 270 grams each
Oven: Stefano Ferrara
Floor Temp.: about 915°F
Dome Temp.: above 1100°F
Bake Time: Under 50 seconds

[Jet_deck]

Visually stunning.

[mkevenson]

Omid, your photography of the oven and flame is outstanding, and the pies are BEAUTIFUL.
Thank you for sharing and keeping us up to date.


Mark

[Serpentelli]

Dear John, while I am highly wary of your characterization of my pizzas (i.e., "the best pizza on the planet"), I appreciate your confidence in me. And, as to the pizzas of Pizzeria Bruno, they are the fruits of labor of Mr. Peter, the owner of the pizzeria. He should be given the credit, not me. He is the sole engineer, and I do my earnest to help him in this enterprise. Good day!

Omid

Omid,

Your modesty is as impressive as your pizza!
John K

[Pizza Napoletana]

Visually stunning.

Omid, your photography of the oven and flame is outstanding, and the pies are BEAUTIFUL.
Thank you for sharing and keeping us up to date.

Mark

Omid,

Your modesty is as impressive as your pizza!
John K

Thank you, gentlemen!

[Pizza Napoletana]

Last night, I baked some pizzas, using my own homemade dough and the Ferrara oven at Pizzeria Bruno. I used the same dough recipe as above in Reply #2014 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14506.msg245905.html#msg245905). Below is a picture of the dough balls and one of the pizzas that I baked last night. Good day!