Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 368930 times)

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Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2360 on: February 06, 2014, 06:44:12 PM »
Omid
Thank you for all your effort you put into this site. I apologize if you have addressed this question in the past but wanted to know the work flow from the first photo of the rough bulk to the second photo of the smooth bulk. Are there a few stretch and folds in there or just a large re ball after a sit.
Thank you
CJ

Dear CJ, the workflow was as follows:

1. The very first picture (the dough inside the mixer bowl) shows right after I stopped mixing upon the dough having reached the desired rheological attributes. Thereafter, I let the dough rest for about 20 minutes inside the mixer bowl.

2. The second picture (the rough dough mass on the marble top) shows when I took the dough mass out of the mixer bowl and placed it on the marble top. At that point, I closely examined the dough to make sure it had rheologically developed as desired.

3. The third picture (the round smooth dough mass) shows right after I formed the rough dough mass into a smooth ball by simply stretching the skin from top to bottom and tucking them under the dough ball.

Good day!
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/


Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2361 on: February 06, 2014, 06:52:52 PM »
Omid your pizzas look great. How do you evaluate them, were you pleased?

Thank you! The pizzas were average. What I have accomplished so far is merely a stepping stone, a transitional stage, toward what I really desire. There is still a lot of work to do. Good day!
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline fagilia

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2362 on: February 07, 2014, 09:40:17 AM »
Thanks for the reply.
Well at least your pizzas look more and more Beautiful.
Seems like I have a lot of work ahead of me :) So many variables with this Pizza Project.


Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2363 on: February 08, 2014, 06:54:17 PM »
For those who are interested, the good news is that Ciro Salvo is establishing his own Neapolitan pizzeria. The pizzeria is supposed to open its doors to the public on Feb. 13, 2014. The address is:

Piazza Sannazzaro, 20 . Napoli

By the way, the pizzeria has adopted Marco Parente's Forno Napoletano oven. (See the picture below.) Congratulations to Ciro!

Regards,
Omid
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 07:35:41 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

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Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2364 on: February 13, 2014, 05:38:57 AM »
Here's one of the pizzas I baked last night, a new experiment.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 06:25:17 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

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Offline dellavecchia

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2365 on: February 13, 2014, 07:41:02 AM »
Omid - Of all the pizzas you have been exhibiting lately, this set is my absolute favorite. These pies exude the subtleties of what a great Neapolitan pizza should be which are very hard to achieve (for me anyway). How did you achieve such gentle and exquisite leaoparding, especially with a dough that looks to be much further along and at a higher hydration?

John

Offline gsans

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2366 on: February 13, 2014, 07:49:19 AM »
Here's one of the pizzas I baked last night, a new experiment.

What's new Omid ? a short fermentation ? (less leoparding) , just a suggestion...

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2367 on: February 13, 2014, 09:57:59 AM »
What's new Omid ? a short fermentation ? (less leoparding) , just a suggestion...

Omid - Of all the pizzas you have been exhibiting lately, this set is my absolute favorite. These pies exude the subtleties of what a great Neapolitan pizza should be which are very hard to achieve (for me anyway). How did you achieve such gentle and exquisite leaoparding, especially with a dough that looks to be much further along and at a higher hydration?

John

Dear John, I thank you for the compliment. And, I should add that I am an admirer of your works.

Below is the basic recipe I employed. Since the recipe calls for higher hydration and warm fermentation for relatively long duration, I think it is imperative, as I am sure you already know, to achieve the proper dough consistency and strength during mixing. Furthermore, I believe this works better when making a dough batch larger than usual. My dough batch was over 3,500 kg. At last, I believe this would not work without high hydration and warm fermentation. Have a great day!

Water: 1500 Grams
Caputo '00' Pizzeria Flour: About 2213 grams
Salt: 54 grams
Fresh Baker's Yeast: 0.45 grams

Hydration: a little under 68%

Mixer: Santos Fork Mixer (84 RPM)
Mix Time: 9 min & 51 seconds while adding about half of the flour gradually until the right consistency was reached
No stretch-&-folds

Fermentation Time: 2 + 18 hours at room temperature (67-72ᴼF)
Final dough ball temperature before baking: 71ᴼF
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2368 on: February 13, 2014, 10:20:14 AM »
Here are some pictures of the grand opening of 50 Kalò di Ciro Salvo. Sublime!

Source: http://www.gazzettagastronomica.it/2014/50-kalo-in-anteprima-la-nuova-pizzeria-di-napoli/

"L’impasto è molto idratato, solo una farina a basso tenore proteico, lievito, tanta acqua, oltre il 70% e lunga maturazione."
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 10:24:49 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline parallei

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2369 on: February 13, 2014, 11:23:35 AM »
Omid- The last pies you posted are lovely.

Quote
Here are some pictures of the grand opening of 50 Kalò di Ciro Salvo. Sublime!

I really think you are giving old Ciro a run for his money!


Offline JConk007

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2370 on: February 13, 2014, 12:18:48 PM »
If I had to pick I would grab the Omid Pie!
Congrats to Ciro! 
Oven looks very nice Marco! However the hearth would be too low for this big guy for all day bake.
Wonder what the finished hearth height is?  Also, I Love how its built in to the wall, and the tile is Killer  !
John
 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 12:21:42 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline stonecutter

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2371 on: February 13, 2014, 12:53:11 PM »
Here are some pictures of the grand opening of 50 Kalò di Ciro Salvo. Sublime!

Source: http://www.gazzettagastronomica.it/2014/50-kalo-in-anteprima-la-nuova-pizzeria-di-napoli/

"L’impasto è molto idratato, solo una farina a basso tenore proteico, lievito, tanta acqua, oltre il 70% e lunga maturazione."

These look so much like the ones my family would make...unbelievable.  Thanks for sharing .
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Offline Sirius

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2372 on: February 13, 2014, 01:02:11 PM »
I am so hungry for ciro salvo pie! I'm gonna visit in April! Cant wait
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 01:22:21 PM by Sirius »

Offline waynesize

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2373 on: February 13, 2014, 04:56:33 PM »
I have, recently, begun reading this thread. I started from the beginning, and have gotten nearly half through. I do not have the skills, or the equipment, to craft the pies that are being discussed herein. That being said, the quoted post I have included here, is a "game changer" for me. It may seem benign to most, but when put into context of my life, and current situation, it speaks volumes. Thanks, Omid. I have changed course, and see pizza, and life, in a different light.

Dear Tinroofrusted, I express to you my gratitude!

I believe it was the German philosopher Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel (1770–1831) who insisted that so long as there is no unification or synthesis of art, science, and philosophy (which subsumes ethics and values)—our education remains crippled. And, per the ancient Greek philosopher Plato (429–347 bc), philosophy always begins in "wonder"—which is why we are here. Right? In contrast, Arthur Schopenhauer (1788–1860), another German thinker, posited that philosophy begins not in wonder, but pain and suffering. I assure you that some of us, however unaware, are here in this forum particularly for that reason! At last, for Friedrich Nietzsche (1844–1900), in his own words: "The genuine philosopher feels the burden and the duty of a hundred attempts and temptations of life—he risks himself constantly. . . . And knowledge itself: let it be something else for others . . . —for me it is a world of dangers and victories in which heroic feelings, too, find places to dance and play. 'Life as a means to knowledge'—with this principle in one's heart, one can live not only boldly but even gaily, and laugh gaily too." Our education, wonderment, pains, temptations (not devoid of fears), risks, and gaiety are written all over this forum which is supposed to be about pizza!

Respectfully,
Omid

Wayne

Offline sub

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2374 on: February 13, 2014, 05:09:59 PM »
Here are some pictures of the grand opening of 50 Kalò di Ciro Salvo. Sublime!

Hi Omid,

Few more.


Offline dellavecchia

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2375 on: February 13, 2014, 05:39:13 PM »
"L’impasto è molto idratato, solo una farina a basso tenore proteico, lievito, tanta acqua, oltre il 70% e lunga maturazione."

Ciro is using over 70% hydration. You can see the softness of the dough in the all the pics being posted. Just amazing.

John

Offline gsans

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2376 on: February 13, 2014, 05:40:06 PM »
Hi Omid,

Do you think Ciro Salvo work with 70% of hydratation or more ?

I think yes.... but not sure....

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2377 on: February 13, 2014, 07:05:18 PM »
If I had to pick I would grab the Omid Pie!
Congrats to Ciro! 
Oven looks very nice Marco! However the hearth would be too low for this big guy for all day bake.
Wonder what the finished hearth height is?  Also, I Love how its built in to the wall, and the tile is Killer  !
John

If I remember correctly 120-125cm. Ciro is just above 6 feet tall, like me, and the hearth height from the floor is built to his exact request. Back in the days it used to be 105 standard. Our mobile ovens are standard at 115 cm.

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2378 on: February 14, 2014, 07:06:42 PM »
Hi Omid,

Do you think Ciro Salvo work with 70% of hydratation or more ?

I think yes.... but not sure....

Monsieur Gsans, that is what the report claims, which does not surprise me at all. Ciro Salvo can definitely afford high hydrations because he possesses both the right tools (mixer) and, above all, the competent skills. I have noticed that when I make a commercial-size batch of dough as opposed to a home-size batch, the emergent dynamics make it easier to substantially increase the hydration (as high as 72-74%) when using the right type of mixer. In my assessment, high hydration can work miraculously, producing, with the right skills, outstanding Neapolitan pizza dough in a nominal amount of time. Accordingly, I believe "temporal efficiency" and sensible "gastronomical qualities" are two virtues of proper use of high hydrations.

Judging, as best as I can, by what is visible in the pictures of Ciro’s dough balls, below, they are hydrated much more than what is common in Naples. In my opinion, those dough balls are not easy to work with both on the bancone and on the oven floor. In the video below, please see how deftly Ciro handles his dough balls, which, at least to my eyes, are higher than usual in hydration. Good day!

Omid

Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2379 on: February 14, 2014, 07:46:47 PM »
Omid- The last pies you posted are lovely.

I really think you are giving old Ciro a run for his money!

Dear Parallei, thank you for the generous compliment. Needless to say, Ciro is lightyears ahead of me, and he has been a great source of inspiration. Have a great weekend!

Omid

I have, recently, begun reading this thread. I started from the beginning, and have gotten nearly half through. I do not have the skills, or the equipment, to craft the pies that are being discussed herein. That being said, the quoted post I have included here, is a "game changer" for me. It may seem benign to most, but when put into context of my life, and current situation, it speaks volumes. Thanks, Omid. I have changed course, and see pizza, and life, in a different light.

Wayne

Dear Wayne, perhaps I can relate to your existential situation in life, where you are coming from. I wish you the best!

Omid

Hi Omid, Few more.

Thank you for the pictures. Good day!

Omid
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 07:52:57 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/


 

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