Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 347387 times)

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Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2400 on: February 27, 2014, 06:46:28 AM »
Omid, I took these pictures from your barbari bread blog

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/281652#comment-281652

Looks like the iranian bakers maybe use the same procedure as Ciro, maybe? What's the hydration of the dough in the pics? How long you think it fermented in the bowl before they started balling? How long the balls ferment?


I do not know if the Iranian bakers employ the same method or not. I do not even know what method Ciro employs.

Barbari bakers normally use a range of hydrations from 65% to 70% or more, depending on the season, flour, and other factors. Good day!

Omid
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/


Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2401 on: February 27, 2014, 07:32:18 AM »
Sorry for asking too many questions Omid. I'm obsessed with this. What was your hydration when you made this dough? What's the bulk weight? Thanks

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=14506.msg288170#msg288170


Dear Pulcinella, it is hard to tell because we do not weigh the water and flour when we make dough at Pizzeria Bruno. However, I am certain that the hydration of the dough in the above-referenced picture was at least 70%. I do not think you can get the same result with your countertop mixer. I am not able to get the same exact result with my Santos mixer either. The mixer is too fast and the capacity too low. Below are some pictures of the 70%-hydration dough I prepared and baked yesterday. (Compare my Santos dough in the first picture, below, with the dough prepared with the commercial mixer at Bruno.) My dough, below, was fermented for 4+13 hours at room temperature. Good day!

Omid
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 07:35:17 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Wazza McG

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2402 on: March 01, 2014, 09:06:51 PM »
Hi Omid

I have just completed reading this entire thread - fascinating stuff - congratulations on your journey.


In Reply #2401; Can you provide some detail or further pictures on how you get from;

Omid's Dough 2.JPG to Omid's Dough 3.JPG

and

Omid's Dough 4.JPG to Omid's Dough 5.JPG

Cheers,

Wazza McG

Fair Dinkum - you want more Pizza!  Crikey ! I've run out out them prawny thingymebobs again!

Offline tinroofrusted

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2403 on: March 01, 2014, 11:28:25 PM »
I have, recently, begun reading this thread. I started from the beginning, and have gotten nearly half through. I do not have the skills, or the equipment, to craft the pies that are being discussed herein. That being said, the quoted post I have included here, is a "game changer" for me. It may seem benign to most, but when put into context of my life, and current situation, it speaks volumes. Thanks, Omid. I have changed course, and see pizza, and life, in a different light.

Wayne

This thread is very, very long to read in full, but reading it is often thrilling. I'm so happy to have been exposed to the very eloquent Omid, who has set forth here a rather coherent, if somewhat complicated, theory of great pizza.  I am very glad that you  found it to be a "game changer". Me too.

Regards,

TinRoof

Offline unasemplicepizza

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2404 on: March 04, 2014, 12:02:34 PM »
Hi boys,
I'm italian , i don't write but i like very much read all your posts, expecially Omid the philosopher of pizza..

I love you boys, you are great

PS: the unique and true GREAT BEAUTY is ..  la pizza napoletana   :)

bye bye

 

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2405 on: March 05, 2014, 04:28:01 PM »
Hi Omid

I have just completed reading this entire thread - fascinating stuff - congratulations on your journey.

In Reply #2401; Can you provide some detail or further pictures on how you get from;

Omid's Dough 2.JPG to Omid's Dough 3.JPG

and

Omid's Dough 4.JPG to Omid's Dough 5.JPG

Cheers,

Wazza McG

This thread is very, very long to read in full, but reading it is often thrilling. I'm so happy to have been exposed to the very eloquent Omid, who has set forth here a rather coherent, if somewhat complicated, theory of great pizza.  I am very glad that you  found it to be a "game changer". Me too.

Regards,

TinRoof

Hi boys,
I'm italian , i don't write but i like very much read all your posts, expecially Omid the philosopher of pizza..

I love you boys, you are great

PS: the unique and true GREAT BEAUTY is ..  la pizza napoletana   :)

bye bye

I thank you all for your interest in this thread with all its inadvertent inaccuracies and mistakes.

Dear Wazza, here are the answers to your questions:

1) "Omidís Dough 2.JPG" to "Omidís Dough 3.JPG":
The image "Omidís Dough 2.JPG" depicts the mass of dough placed on the marble top right after it was taken out of the mixer bowl. The next image, i.e., "Omidís Dough 3.JPG", shows the same dough mass which I manually formed into a cohesive whole in shape of a ball.

2) "Omidís Dough 4.JPG" to "Omidís Dough 5.JPG":
Thereafter, as shown in image "Omidís Dough 4.JPG", I covered the dough with a stainless steel mixing bowl. After 4 hours, I removed the bowl as shown in image "Omidís Dough 5.JPG". Next, I individuated my dough balls from the mass and let them ferment for 13 hours at room temperature. Good day!

Omid
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2406 on: March 07, 2014, 06:57:40 PM »
Here is one of the pizzas I baked last Wednesday. I used Caputo "00" pizzeria flour and fresh yeast. In this disciplinary experiment, I pushed the hydration to about 72% which necessitated me to do a longer initial fermentation, about 12 hours at room temperature. Thereafter, I made dough balls and let them undergo final fermentation for 7 hours. Below is the result. Good weekend!

Omid
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline thezaman

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2407 on: March 07, 2014, 07:44:10 PM »
Omid the pie looks great, any taste or texture differences with the higher hydration? tell me you method of removing your dough from those high sided dough trays!!!how do you re round the dough before your stretch? thanks,larry

Offline JConk007

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2408 on: March 07, 2014, 07:53:52 PM »
Those are the Artisan trays Larry just go after it !!  ;D
Pies do look amazing as allways !
John
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Offline thezaman

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2409 on: March 07, 2014, 08:25:35 PM »
i know john always looking for tips to improve my stretching!!!


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2410 on: March 07, 2014, 08:52:40 PM »
Omid,

That pie looks a bit more like one of my pies than your typical pies which is interesting given that they have virtually nothing in common with respect to formula and workflow. What oven did you bake that pie in?

CL
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Wazza McG

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2411 on: March 08, 2014, 12:58:55 AM »
Omid

What has been your best pizza dough to date for flavor? Was it the long ferment?

Wazza McG
Fair Dinkum - you want more Pizza!  Crikey ! I've run out out them prawny thingymebobs again!

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2412 on: March 09, 2014, 06:48:41 PM »
Omid the pie looks great, any taste or texture differences with the higher hydration? tell me you method of removing your dough from those high sided dough trays!!!how do you re round the dough before your stretch? thanks,larry


Those are the Artisan trays Larry just go after it !!  ;D
Pies do look amazing as allways !
John


Thank you, friends.

As John mentioned, the small-size tray in the picture, above, is an Artisan Dough Tray (model #ADT-148), whose dimensions are 17 3/4 ◊ 12 3/4 ◊ 3.

Larry, you asked, "Any taste or texture differences with the higher hydration?" I think the qualities of the taste and texture depend on what (i.e., what pizzas) I compare them to in order to account for the "differences" you are inquiring about. Let me talk in general terms.

Generally, it appears that higher hydrations can give rise to lighter texture when the dough is properly prepared and baked. Furthermore, it seems to me that higher hydration is one way to bring about, within a shorter period of time, certain taste and texture that can also be brought about in a lower hydration dough, but within a longer period of time. So far, I have attentively experimented with hydrations ranging from 64 to 74%; therefore, I do not know if any other percentages would disqualify my preceding statement.

Either way, the role of fermentation and other developmental mechanisms can not be underestimated. In other words, high hydrations will not prove to be rewarding, no more or less than lower hydrations, if fermentation does not play its proper role in the process of dough development and maturation.

Also, let me add one more observation: while a not properly fermented dough of unusually high hydration might produce the soft and airy texture one looks for in a Neapolitan pizza, it will not simulate the flavor.

(All the preceding assumes that no old dough or preferments are used.)

In regard to your next question, my method of removing dough balls out of dough tray is not any different than demonstrated in the following video:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM1z6T03IU4" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM1z6T03IU4</a>


At last, you asked, "How do you re-round the dough before your stretch?" Usually, I do not re-round my dough before stretching. I let my dough more or less resume its round shape when or after I open it on the worktable. So, it has to do with how I use my hands in the process of opening or stretching the dough ball. Have a great day!

Omid
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2413 on: March 09, 2014, 06:54:50 PM »
Omid,

That pie looks a bit more like one of my pies than your typical pies which is interesting given that they have virtually nothing in common with respect to formula and workflow. What oven did you bake that pie in?

CL

Dear Craig, I used the Ferrara oven at Pizzeria Bruno to bake the pizza. Have a great day!

Omid
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2414 on: March 09, 2014, 06:57:16 PM »
Omid

What has been your best pizza dough to date for flavor? Was it the long ferment?

Wazza McG

Dear Wazza, yes, I would say the long ones. Good day!

Omid
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline napoletana4germany

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2415 on: March 19, 2014, 05:31:19 PM »
hi Omid,

I don't know if you and the other heads of Pizza Napoletana know this household diving arm mixer by Bernardi impastatrice?
it really looks convincing!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbbiARhiHM0" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbbiARhiHM0</a>


website and  datasheet:
http://www.bernardi-impastatrici.it/linea_family.php?lang=it&pag=1

Todi

Offline stonecutter

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2416 on: March 19, 2014, 06:47:14 PM »


I'll +1 to what Tinroof posted, and I will add that this thread contains amazing amount of humility on Omids part, especially after seeing his abitities and his knowledge.  That is as admirable as the great pies that we are seeing.

I look forward to future posts.
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When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
John Ruskin

Offline tangtang

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2417 on: March 20, 2014, 04:54:21 AM »
Here is one of the pizzas I baked last Wednesday. I used Caputo "00" pizzeria flour and fresh yeast. In this disciplinary experiment, I pushed the hydration to about 72% which necessitated me to do a longer initial fermentation, about 12 hours at room temperature. Thereafter, I made dough balls and let them undergo final fermentation for 7 hours. Below is the result. Good weekend!

Omid

I am sorry if I just overread this, I am overwhelmed with you reading this and looking at the results  :drool:
What are the ingredients for this dough please ??!! I got the Caputo, 72 % H2O and the 12hrs bulk and 7hrs ball fermentation at room temp (how much?). How much and what kind of yeast did you use?
Many many thanks, can't wait to try this.

Maybe an additional question: How do the pizzas with this high hydration compare to what you describe elswhere as your preferred hydration of around 55-60%?

I just fired my beautiful handcrafted WFO yesterday for the first time and got some wonderful 900F  :) which hydration should I aim for?

Offline Sirius

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2418 on: March 20, 2014, 06:03:58 AM »
In a commercial setting I would aim for 60-65% hydration.

Offline tangtang

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2419 on: March 20, 2014, 10:55:52 AM »
In a commercial setting I would aim for 60-65% hydration.

Hi Sirius, any reasons why?