Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 174311 times)

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Offline Ev

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #460 on: September 07, 2011, 02:23:39 PM »
Omid,
Thank you so much for the step by step instructions! I'm looking forward to trying this method!

Offline thezaman

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #461 on: September 07, 2011, 06:53:21 PM »
 omid, i am trying your method today and have questions on different points. first can you dilute the yeast and use 2 grams to get the same results? i used your method today using the wet palm fingers and back of my hand to make the dough. my first mix was done very shaggy and the resting  temperature was 79 degrees, my finished dough came out at 80 degrees. my hand mix time was about 9 minutes. my kitchen was 81 degrees. i gave the bulk dough 3 hours of rise it gained some volume. it is now balled and sitting at 67 degrees. what should i look for before i know it is ready?i want to bake Thursday evening 8 pm or so. that would be 28 hours at room temperature. is that possible with the small amount of yeast??
  when you first started to post i though that you would give us just enough information to wet our appetites. i was very wrong thanks for your knowledge and willingness to help!!
  another thing is that 67 degrees that the vpn pizzerias talk so much about ,as in there controlled dough making environment. i believe you just explained the in your above post.
   i have enclosed steps in picture form the first is my shaggy dough that sat for 60 minutes.
 

Offline Ev

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #462 on: September 07, 2011, 08:17:27 PM »
I started my batch today as well. I used the one side of both hands approach. My dough has been resting in bulk for the last 3 hrs or so at about 70 degrees. I'll ball this evening and add a frozen water bottle to my chamber. Sorry, no pictures. ;)

Offline thezaman

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #463 on: September 07, 2011, 09:18:05 PM »
Eve at what stage did you take the first mix to ? Was it developed further than where I stopped at?

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #464 on: September 08, 2011, 03:35:01 AM »
omid, i am trying your method today and have questions on different points. first can you dilute the yeast and use 2 grams to get the same results? i used your method today using the wet palm fingers and back of my hand to make the dough. my first mix was done very shaggy and the resting  temperature was 79 degrees, my finished dough came out at 80 degrees. my hand mix time was about 9 minutes. my kitchen was 81 degrees. i gave the bulk dough 3 hours of rise it gained some volume. it is now balled and sitting at 67 degrees. what should i look for before i know it is ready?i want to bake Thursday evening 8 pm or so. that would be 28 hours at room temperature. is that possible with the small amount of yeast?? when you first started to post i though that you would give us just enough information to wet our appetites. i was very wrong thanks for your knowledge and willingness to help!! Another thing is that 67 degrees that the vpn pizzerias talk so much about ,as in there controlled dough making environment. i believe you just explained the in your above post. i have enclosed steps in picture form the first is my shaggy dough that sat for 60 minutes.

I started my batch today as well. I used the one side of both hands approach. My dough has been resting in bulk for the last 3 hrs or so at about 70 degrees. I'll ball this evening and add a frozen water bottle to my chamber. Sorry, no pictures.

Dear Thezaman, as you know, making dough is chemistry. Indeed, viewed from a limited perspective, it is pure chemistry! For instance, analogously speaking, when a molecular chemist bonds a single atom of oxygen to a molecule of water, she or he in effect changes the water (H2O) to hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), which has different chemical and reactive properties than water. In the same vein, here we are dealing with micro-organisms that are highly sensitive and reactive to the chemistry and temperatures of the environments in which they find themselves.

With that in mind, you asked, "Can you dilute the [1-gram] yeast [in 30 grams of water] and use 2 grams [of the mixture] to get the same results?" As the proverb goes, "There is more than one way to skin a kit." In other words, there is more than one way to do the same thing. However, your question is not easy to answer, for getting the same result is contingent upon various factors, such as temperature, quality of hydrated flour, method of kneading, duration of kneading, quality of fermentation, treatment of the dough balls, and etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. And, we should beware of the generalization that, "the way dough is inoculated impacts the quality of the end product, either tenuously or substantially."

At this point, although I do not know the nature of your ingredients and do not know in detail how you are treating your dough and under what conditions, I am inclined to speculate that if you dissolve 1 gram of fresh yeast in 30 grams of water, and then directly add (without the use of "hand inoculation") only 2 grams of the mixture to the hydrated flour and then commence kneading, you will probably get the same result. If any detectable differences transpire, they would be probably negligible, I hope. Theoretically, you are using the same amount of yeast-water mixture, except at a lower temperature since your hand does not initially and directly warm up and nourish the yeast cells in the mixture. Nonetheless, as they claim, there is [seemingly] something magical (the Midas touch!) about the warmth of the human hands. Heat definitely excites yeast cells into action, besides accelerating the enzymatic reactions of amylase to convert starch into simple sugars.

Bear in mind that since you are using such diminished amount of yeast (theoretically about ≈0.06 grams), it is of importance that your hydrated flour is ready and up to the task, akin to a well cultivated and well plowed soil that is rich with nutrients and is ready to be sowed with seeds! I construe the consummate hydration of flour (in this case, without adding any salt and yeast) as an overture to the opera of fermentation—because, in my opinion, it, the proper hydration of flour, sets the mood and the stage for the rest of the process.

Again, not knowing the whereabouts of your dough, your techniques, and your methodology, it is really difficult for me to formulate advice or instructions that are relative to your particular situation. Nevertheless, I posit that you make sure that by the end of hydrating your flour, you have a smooth, almost homogenous, and pasta-esque mixture of water and flour—without any subsequent intervention, such as using your hands to bring about the aforementioned qualities. (Needless to mention, the procurement of these qualities varies time-wise in accordance to the ambient temperature, the temperature and qualities of your flour, and the temperature and percentage of your water.) Hence, the water and flour need to be skillfully mixed and incorporated together prior to the autolytic hydration of your flour. If the very first picture you posted above is the end result of mixing and incorporating the water and flour together, prior to the autolytic hydration of your flour, the mixing was not done well or long enough for the purpose of making this kind of dough. The mixture of water and flour, in the picture, looks too lumpy and unincorporated, which means that the moisture won't be able to effectively circulate and evenly disseminate throughout the mass during the autolytic hydration phase.

Of course, if your Caputo flour is old and ill, meaning that the flour has lost its native moisture and potency, that kind of result can be expected. Conversely, if your Caputo flour has excessively absorbed environmental moisture during storage and gone stale after somewhat or fully desiccating, again the same result can be expected. As a generalization, if a Caputo Pizzeria flour has a mild malodor or has a moldy or damply smell (like an old damply cellar), I consider the flour inferior and unfit for making a superb Neapolitan dough. Also, if the Caputo flour is chunky—chunks that do not easily crumble—, I consider the flour unsuitable for making a favorable Neapolitan dough. At last, as a test, pour some of your Caputo flour (about 2 inches thick) inside a clear glass cup and level it. Next, add some room-temperature water (about half of the weight of the flour) right on top of the flour, without any mixing. Let it sit for about 15 to 20 minutes. If after the end of the time period you observe osmotic lines of dark yellowish color in the hydrated flour, the flour is probably sick or dead! (Please, be aware that here I am making a number of presuppositions based on my personal experiences.)

Next, you asked, "It [the dough] is now balled and sitting at 67 degrees. What should I look for before i know it is ready?" Again, since I am not fully certain as to the whereabouts of your dough and the circumstances under which it was formed, it is hard to tell. Assuming that the dough, after consummate hydration, was hand-inoculated with about ≈0.06 grams of fresh yeast and thereafter rested for about 3 hours at 79° F, with the finishing internal temperature of 80° F, and assuming that the dough, as balls, are currently undergoing fermentation at the steady temperature of 67° F, by now you should be able to discern the subtly sweet and very gentle aroma of fermentation, which I do not know how to describe. Also, (this is really difficult to describe, but I will try!) assuming that you used healthy flour, your dough balls should appear vivacious, alive, and more white than yellowish; they should not appear as if carrying a dead weight. Also, as fermentation and levitation go on, if at all, the dough balls should gradually become more voluminous or pompous than timid. If possible, gently and partially lift one of the dough balls to see if you can detect any bubble formations on the base of the dough. If you perceive these signs, then your dough balls are indeed rising to the occasion!

So, when are the dough balls ready? It depends on how much fermentative and levitational activities are conduced under the extant circumstances. How much volume do you prefer? How relaxed do you like them to be? It may take up to 40 hours or more or less, since the dough balls were formed, before they come to fruition. Judge by their volume and relaxed corporeality. I hope I have been helpful. Good luck and good night!

Omid
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 09:35:55 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
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Offline Ev

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #465 on: September 08, 2011, 08:01:03 AM »
Eve at what stage did you take the first mix to ? Was it developed further than where I stopped at?

I would say that my dough was developed further than yours. I made sure all the flour was incorporated into a firm moist ball and then lft to rest(hydrate) for about 2 hrs. I then kneaded with yeasty hands for about 8 minutes, adding the salt slowly as I went.

Offline Ev

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #466 on: September 08, 2011, 08:08:48 AM »
I got caught up watching the weather(lots of rain)and forgot to ball my dough last night, so it's been bulk fermenting overnight. The temp was just about 68 degrees and so far maybe just the slightest signs of rising. I'll ball now and let them rise at as close to 67 as I can get, using my cooler and water bottle.

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #467 on: September 10, 2011, 08:03:58 AM »
Dear friends, I would like to share with you (particularly with those of you who use Kitchen Aid mixers) an experiment I conducted yesterday. If your experience has been as same as mine in making pizza dough with your Kitchen Aid mixer (utilizing the "spiral dough hook"), you may have generally noticed:

1) The dough can quickly heat up during kneading, and
2) Not much air, as much as using a "fork" or "diving arms" mixer, is incorporated in the dough during kneading.

Let me provide you with an example, which contains the details of my experiment. Yesterday, I hand mixed, not knead, the following ingredients together with the following attendant temperatures:

2000  grams of Caputo Pizzeria Flour   (73.7° F)
1130  grams of water                        (60.8° F)
2.00   grams of fresh yeast                (41.4° F)
55.40 grams of sea salt                     (78.0° F)

Next, in order to fully homogenize the temperature throughout the mixture, I let it rest for 1 hour. By the end of the rest period, the mixture had a uniform temperature of 71.9° F. Afterward, I divided the mixture into two equal portions: portion "A" and portion "B". With help of a friend, we simultaneously used two identical Kitchen Aid stand mixers (Professional 600) to knead the two equal portions at the slowest speed for 9 minutes each, with one exception. I used a USB fan to gently insert air, for the entire 9-minute period, inside the mixer bowl assigned to portion "B". (See the pictures below. The USB fan in the picture cost me $3.95 at Bed, Bath, and Beyond.) After kneading was over, my friend and I clearly noticed:

1) Portion "A's" temperature rose from 71.9° F to 79.2° F while portion "B's" temperature rose from 71.9° F to 74.9° F.
2) Portion "B" seemed to have more volume than portion "A", tentatively due to incorporation of air into the former.
3) Portion "A" was looser, gummier, and stickier than portion "B". Consequently, portion "B" was easier to handle.
4) After several hours of fermentation, portion "B" proved to be easier to make dough balls out of than portion "A". In addition, portion "B" left much lesser amount of gummy-dough residue on my fingers than portion "A".

I assume that using a slow speed fan, in conjunction with the Kitchen Aid mixer, can be helpful in making a high hydration dough that is less looser, less stickier, and easier to handle. In addition, the incorporation of air can be instrumental toward stimulating the fermentative micro-organisms in the dough. Basically, it seems to me that this mode of kneading simulates, to a limited extent, certain effects of using a fork mixer or diving arms mixer, which integrate a healthy amount of air into dough. If you will employ this method, please let me know about your results. (I recommend not using the fan for the entire duration of kneading. The more air is pumped into the dough, the stiffer it becomes. Also, maintain a distance between the fan and the mouth of your mixer bowl. The faster the fan speed, the more distance should be allowed.) I need to do more experiments with this method for the sake of better understanding it. Good day!
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 09:46:34 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #468 on: September 10, 2011, 08:43:57 AM »
Brilliant experiment Omid.  It makes a lot of sense.  Keep the dough cool and incorporate more air into the dough. To some extent, it would create a similar effect to the way dough was made in those large vats as you have previously posted.

Chau

Offline norma427

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #469 on: September 10, 2011, 09:27:32 AM »
Omid,

I find your observations interesting.  I have a Kitchen Aid Professional HD and also a Hobart 20 qt. planetary mixer.  I have watched how my planetary mixer mixes dough, and think I can almost produce the same doughs in my Kitchen Aid mixer, if I watch the final dough temperature and also how my doughs mix, with different hydrations.  I am not done with the experiments, but so far it seems I can achieve about the same doughs in both my Kitchen Aid and my 20 qt. Hobart.  I have also tried the flat beater in different experiments with my Kitchen Aid, and let higher hydration doughs rest, then mix again.  That seems to work well too.

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #470 on: September 10, 2011, 10:25:51 AM »
Omid, I find it hard to believe that more air is incorporated by the use of a fan, caeteris paribus. A fan does not increase air pressure, so I have to wonder what would be the mechanism by which more air is incorporated? To determine if more air is actualy incorporated, I think you would need to do a water immersion test to see if the blown dough was less dense. Even then, you could not rule out that the difference was the result of the cooler temperature rather than the air being blown on the dough.

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Offline Tscarborough

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #471 on: September 10, 2011, 01:33:30 PM »
To incorporate more air into mortar, you use a mixer in which the paddles move inside the drum.  To reduce air entrainment in concrete, you use a drum that rotates. 

The corollary for dough would be fork for more air, spiral for less, I would think.

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #472 on: September 10, 2011, 09:17:08 PM »
Brilliant experiment Omid.  It makes a lot of sense.  Keep the dough cool and incorporate more air into the dough. To some extent, it would create a similar effect to the way dough was made in those large vats as you have previously posted.
Chau

Omid, I find your observations interesting. . . .
Norma

Omid, I find it hard to believe that more air is incorporated by the use of a fan, caeteris paribus. A fan does not increase air pressure, so I have to wonder what would be the mechanism by which more air is incorporated? To determine if more air is actualy incorporated, I think you would need to do a water immersion test to see if the blown dough was less dense. Even then, you could not rule out that the difference was the result of the cooler temperature rather than the air being blown on the dough.
CL

To incorporate more air into mortar, you use a mixer in which the paddles move inside the drum.  To reduce air entrainment in concrete, you use a drum that rotates. The corollary for dough would be fork for more air, spiral for less, I would think.

Dear friends, I appreciate your comments. Thank you!

Dear Craig, I like your critical point in re "air pressure", which makes me more cautious in examining the results of this experiment. Could you, please, explain what you mean by "air pressure"? And, what is its significance or role in relation to incorporating air into dough? The fan blowing air into the mixer bowl is indubitably causing palpable effects in terms of dough texture and constitution. At this point, I think the fan increases the probability of air entrapment inside dough. Perchance, a faster rate of water evaporation as a result of the air-blow should be also taken into account.

About 5 minutes ago, I examined the air-blown and non-air-blown dough balls, which have been undergoing fermentation since last night. The air-blown dough balls, unlike the non-air-blown dough balls, have a strong glutenous dough skin all around them (see the picture below), just like dough balls produced by the fast fork speed of my Santos mixer. (For the sake of making a tender pizza crust, blowing air into the Kitchen Aid mixer bowl for the entire duration of kneading is a bad idea. The air-blown dough balls, unlike the non-air-blown dough balls, are too stiff! This definitely evinces the potentials of this method in respect to making high hydration dough.) I wonder what is the correlation between "air blow" and "gluten development" in dough?

Upon opening and stretching one of the air-blown dough balls, I immediately noticed the same kind of feel and dough consistency as a dough ball made with my Santos. This remarkable resemblance leads me to speculate that perhaps the air-blown dough was oxygenated to a degree comparable to a dough made with Santos mixer. Of course, keep in mind, that Santos' fork has a much stronger kneading power than the dough hook of the Kitchen Aid, meaning that Santos, at its present fork speed, really batters the dough without considerable increase in temperature. Based on my experiences, 5 minutes of kneading a dough with Santos is probably equivalent to 20 minutes of kneading the same dough with Kitchen Aid.

If I can figure out the proper amount of time, which I will try tonight, for blowing air into the mixer bowl of Kitchen Aid during kneading, then, in my opinion, Kitchen Aid will produce a Neapolitan dough far superior to a Neapolitan dough produced by Santos mixer at its default fork speed of 84 RPM! However, if I can manage to considerably reduce the fork speed of my Santos, then the same would not hold anymore. Good weekend to you all!

(Dear Tscarborough, having used both types of mixers, your assertion [i.e., "fork for more air, spiral for less"] makes sense to me.)

UPDATE:
I am so dismayed about this business of blowing air into the dough! I just closely examined all the dough balls:

1) The air-blown dough balls are susceptible to tears upon being stretched into dough discs. In addition they are of tough texture, like rubber.
2) On the other hand, the non-air-blown dough balls pleasantly stretch into dough discs without any tears. And, they are gratifyingly soft and extensible.

I need to find out how much air-blowing is enough during kneading in order to keep the dough temperature low enough and keep the dough texture agreeable enough. This has been an enlightening experiment: the effects of air on dough during kneaing. Interesting!
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 11:14:43 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #473 on: September 10, 2011, 09:34:23 PM »
Craig, perhaps the fan does not increase air pressure around the dough but only air circulation, which can potentially make a difference in how much air is trapped in the dough while kneading. 

From Tom's example, you can trap more air by mixing or kneading the dough with different types of mixers as well as using different hand techniques, despite the same air pressure around the dough. 

Chau

Offline alex_chef2000

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #474 on: September 10, 2011, 10:10:16 PM »
I have been thinking in using the double bowl with the mixer, the second bowl may contain water at certain temperature to control the final temperature of the dough. 

By controlling the temperature and adding more air aswell I beleive to have a better dough. 

I think if I can use water at 37 C which is the human temperature, the dough will rise better as if it was kneaded by hand.

This is a fantastic World of trial and error and any upgrade to our pizzas is greatly appreciated. 


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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #475 on: September 10, 2011, 11:09:59 PM »
This is a fantastic World of trial and error and any upgrade to our pizzas is greatly appreciated.

UPDATE:
I am so dismayed about this business of blowing air into the dough! I just closely examined all the dough balls:

1) The air-blown dough balls are susceptible to tears upon being stretched into dough discs. In addition they are of tough texture, like rubber.
2) On the other hand, the non-air-blown dough balls pleasantly stretch into dough discs without any tears. And, they are gratifyingly soft and extensible.

I need to find out how much air-blowing is enough during kneading in order to keep the dough temperature low enough and keep the dough texture agreeable enough. This has been an enlightening experiment: the effects of air on dough during kneaing. Very interesting! As our friend Alex_chef put it, "This is a fantastic World of trial and error. . . ."
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 11:19:35 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #476 on: September 11, 2011, 12:18:49 AM »
Craig, perhaps the fan does not increase air pressure around the dough but only air circulation, which can potentially make a difference in how much air is trapped in the dough while kneading. 

I don’t think it will. I’ll address why I think this in my response to Omid below.

Quote
From Tom's example, you can trap more air by mixing or kneading the dough with different types of mixers as well as using different hand techniques, despite the same air pressure around the dough. 
 

Tom is comparing different mechanical mechanisms. To compare it to what Omid did is an apples and oranges. Like Tom said, his example is somewhat analogous to a spiral vs. a fork mixer. This is not at all the same as the same mixer with and without a fan blowing air across the dough.

Dear Craig, I like your critical point in re "air pressure", which makes me more cautious in examining the results of this experiment. Could you, please, explain what you mean by "air pressure"? And, what is its significance or role in relation to incorporating air into dough? The fan blowing air into the mixer bowl is indubitably causing palpable effects in terms of dough texture and constitution. At this point, I think the fan increases the probability of air entrapment inside dough. Perchance, a faster rate of water evaporation as a result of the air-blow should be also taken into account.

Air is incorporated into the dough by forming a pocket that is filled with air and subsequently closing it thus trapping the air. It is the mechanical action of the mixer that opens the pockets, exposing them to the air, and then closes them to trap the air. If a pocket is opened, it will fill completely with air – at 101kPa ambient pressure, there is a 100% probability it will – 0% chance it will not. I don’t care how fast the mixer opens and closes it. Blowing the dough with a fan is meaningless to this end. What would be meaningful (but not recommended in my opinion) would be increasing air pressure as it would increase the amount of air trapped either by enclosing more air in the same space at a higher pressure or, more likely, expanding the space and trapping more air at ambient pressure. An open fan can not compress air nor will that little fan blow hard enough to build up enough pressure inside a void to expand it. Stick a hose with compressed air in your dough, and I guarantee you will trap more air… or explode your dough.

The reason the fork mixer incorporates more air than say a spiral mixer is due to mechanical action. The twisting and folding motion of the fork mixer opens and closes voids that fill with air with each turn. The action of the spiral mixer doean't do this. The fork mixer action is almost like the stretch-and-fold action on a very small scale.

Is it possible that the fan is causing other mechanical or chemical changes in the dough (such as accelerated evaporation as you mentioned) that work to favor the incorporation of air? Yes but we would need to do some immersion testing to see if there is any reason to believe this may be the case.

Craig
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #477 on: September 11, 2011, 01:07:34 AM »
Tom is comparing different mechanical mechanisms. To compare it to what Omid did is an apples and oranges. Like Tom said, his example is somewhat analogous to a spiral vs. a fork mixer. This is not at all the same as the same mixer with and without a fan blowing air across the dough.

Craig


Craig don't get me wrong here, I wasn't comparing what Tom stated about mechanical mixing to Omid's experiment.  I understand that they are 2 different concepts.  I was merely pointing out that you can have incorporation of air into dough despite having the same air pressure surrounding the dough. 

If you will note, I did compare Tom's example to "using different hand techniques" as I also believe air can be incoporated via methods like stretch and folds or slap and folds. 

As it sounds like the fanned dough is behaving noticeably different, I also agree that it's possible that the increase air circulation is causing a physical change in the dough for better or worse.

Chau

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #478 on: September 11, 2011, 09:24:22 AM »
I also believe air can be incorporated via methods like stretch and folds or slap and folds. 


For my money, that is the best way to incorporate air into the dough. This is the first place I ever saw the technique: http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/video/2008/03/bertinet_sweetdough He specifically talks about capturing air. This is the mixing and kneading technique I use most of the time I make bread.

CL
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Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #479 on: September 11, 2011, 11:35:46 AM »
For my money, that is the best way to incorporate air into the dough. This is the first place I ever saw the technique: http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/video/2008/03/bertinet_sweetdough He specifically talks about capturing air. This is the mixing and kneading technique I use most of the time I make bread.


Dear Craig, thank you for posting the video! The kneading technique portrayed in the video is similar to the method I described in this thread at "Reply 431": http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14506.msg151346.html#msg151346. This is an ancient technique (known as "varzidan" or "varz daadan") which has been traced back to over a millennium ago. According to the bread scholar and baker Seyyed Davood Roghany, the oldest inscribed reference to this technique dates back to 1651 A.D. in Persia. Using this technique, I have made pizza dough hydrated at 71%, without it being runny or sticky; except, I prefer using a clay vat that is round, concaved, and with smaller diameter at the base. A flat tabletop might be a bit harsh on the dough for the purpose of making Neapolitan style pizza dough. Good day!
« Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 12:43:04 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
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