Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 374525 times)

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Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #700 on: October 14, 2011, 02:13:57 AM »
Thanks for posting Omid! and yes a beautiful technique pie. When I am not in a hurry I also use a very similar method.   How many slaps do you think you use to obtain the size. A recent video showed around 6-7 gentle slaps to complete.
Good day !

Dear JConk007, you're welcome! The particular dough disc above probably took about 4 slaps since the dough was very silky and relaxed. Good night!
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Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #701 on: October 14, 2011, 02:16:47 AM »
Omid,
Great looking pie!  :)  Thanks for posting pictures of your technique.
Norma

Dear Norma, thank you and have a lovely weekend!
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

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Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #702 on: October 14, 2011, 02:26:44 AM »
Very nice. Pepperoni and dark olives is a personal favorite. Many folks see cupping of the pepperoni as a fault. I like it.

CL

Dear Craig, thank you! One thing that I do like about the "cupping" of pepperonis or salamis is that it makes their rims more conducive to charring a little, which adds an extraordinary flavor to them. Good night!
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Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #703 on: October 14, 2011, 02:55:21 AM »
Omid
I think these are your best in my humble opinion!!!!!  Thanks for posting pics of the opening of your dough ball... it helps someone like me that is still learning, to actually see what the dough looks like through the various stages.  

Forgive me if this has been asked before but I notice that on your last few bakes you have used sourdough culture. Have you enjoyed this change? Is it common in Italy and specifically Naples to use sourdough culture for Neapolitan pies?

Scot

Dear Scot, I thank you for your compliment. I normally keep alternating between using sourdough culture and fresh yeast. I like them both; However, I prefer sourdough culture—if it is fit like a fiddle—over fresh yeast. I think the former can produce a dough that bakes into a tastier, softer, and lighter crust—but it is a challenge! Perchance, that is why most Neapolitan pizzerias that I know of in Naples use fresh yeast, which is much easier to tame and use. It has been said that only a handful of pizzerias in Naples, such as Da Michele and Salvo, use lievito madre. Good night!
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 08:22:59 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
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Offline salvatoregianpaolo

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #704 on: October 14, 2011, 09:40:45 AM »
Omid,

Thank you very much for such detailed pictures.  I am ecstatic, because it seems our methods are very similar.  Now... if I can only achieve the same results!

I also appreciate your insight into using sourdough culture.  I switched entirely to sourdough for most of my breadmaking several months ago, and the results have been superb.  I agree with your description of its benefits in regards to pizza making, as well. 

My family and I are heading to Italia this fall, and I think a stop at Salvo might be in order... especially because that is my son's nickname!  Perhaps I will "borrow" some of their culture.

Grazie tante,
Salvatore

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #705 on: October 15, 2011, 11:27:12 PM »
I just finished building a turning peel, with copper handle and steel plate. It is so cool to use. Have a great weekend everyone!
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 12:50:42 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #706 on: October 16, 2011, 09:11:55 AM »
Dear Craig, thank you! One thing that I do like about the "cupping" of pepperonis or salamis is that it makes their rims more conducive to charring a little, which adds an extraordinary flavor to them. Good night!

Yes, this is what I like as well.

How did you attach the steel plate to the copper handle on your peel?

CL
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #707 on: October 16, 2011, 10:02:36 AM »
Fantastic job on your copper turning peel.  Omid you are so talented!

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #708 on: October 16, 2011, 05:33:08 PM »
Omid, knowing your high and strict standards for Pizza Napoletana, I'm curious as to how you would rate this buffala carried by TJ's against the cheeses you had in Italy.  Of course it can not compared to fresh made cheese, but how close in texture and flavor is it?

I use to buy this all the time as I live within walking distance from a TJs, until I found the Ambrosi brand which I liked much more.  Sadly the market that I got it from no longer carries it.  My options are the brand you posted vs WFs for $12/8oz!  I cannot bring myself to pay those prices at WFs. Also is this the same cheese you have been putting on the pies that you have posted pictures of?
Chau

Dear Chau, since I did not want to clutter and change the subject at dear Wheelman's (Bill's) thread (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,15461.20.html), I have brought the subject here to this thread.

Not long ago, I talked to a corporate owner of a Neapolitan pizzeria who told me that, bufala di mozzarella imported from Italy enter the U.S. in a frozen state. (I think he mentioned that often "liquid nitrogen" is used to freeze the mozzarella balls!) If truly so, there goes out the window a percentage of the texture and flavor of the bufala di mozzarella imported to this country from Italy! (I am curious to know in what state Matthew receives his bufala di mozzarella at his pizzeria in Toronto, Canada.) Moreover, to the best of my knowledge, bufala di mozzarella is supposed to be "fresh" (hence "fresh mozzarella"), not aged. Because of the unavoidable factors of distance and time, the mozzarella balls imported to the U.S. are not as fresh as one hopes them to be. Therefore, there are inevitable compromises!

Given the above considerations, I rate the bufala di mozzarella by Mandara not the best, but not the worst either. First of all, I value the fact that it tastes gamier than some other imported mozzarellas I have had. In my opinion, if a buffalo mozzarella does not have the gamy flavor peculiar to it, the mozzarella would not be of much gastronomical value. Upon tasting it, I like to immediately distinguish that it was made with water buffalo milk; otherwise, what would be the point?

Second, the bufala di mozzarella by Mandara secretes a generous amount of oil (lipids) upon melting, which helps to wed flavors of the ingredients together and which can contribute to the crust stay moist, tender, and flavorful. (I wished the fior di latte by Polly-o contained a higher percentage of oil.) I have had other mozzarellas that did not release enough oil upon melting.

Third, the Mandara mozzarella melts well under various temperatures, low or high, without leaving behind a sourcreamish residue.

Next, Mandara mozzarella balls are on the watery side, which I do not mind as long as no ponds are formed on the landscape of my baked pizzas. However, if the mozzarella balls are excessively watery (which is probably and partly caused by ruptured mozzarella cells after being defrosted from a frozen state), I take out the balls out of the brine (the day before baking), place them inside a dry strainer-container (see the last picture below), and place them back in the refrigerator. By next day, I dump all the water that already accumulated at the bottom of the container.

At last, what attracts me to the bufala di mozzarella by Mandara (fior di latter by Polly-o as well) is the price. The price of $5.99 for 200 grams of buffalo mozzarella is easier to bear than paying $12 or $14 for less grams of mozzarella. I usually make more than 10 pizzas per week, and that price would bankrupt me! Verily, if the buffalo mozzarella balls were not frozen upon being shipped here, they could have been in better shape by the time consumed, promptly, by the U.S. consumers. Yet, it is obvious why they need to be frozen. The cheese used on the pizzas in my pictures throughout this thread are either bufala di mozzarella by Mandara or fior di latte by Polly-o. Good day!
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 01:39:30 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

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Offline Matthew

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #709 on: October 16, 2011, 06:01:27 PM »
Omid,
I have tried almost every imported bufala available to me.  Some good, some okay, some not so good. At the end of the day I made the decision to go with Ontario bufala made fresh daily for us. We visited a water buffalo farm in Ontario and have worked out an exclusive deal with our cheesemaker to make our bufala from the buffalo milk from this specific farm.

Matt


Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #710 on: October 16, 2011, 08:22:59 PM »
Omid,
I have tried almost every imported bufala available to me.  Some good, some okay, some not so good. At the end of the day I made the decision to go with Ontario bufala made fresh daily for us. We visited a water buffalo farm in Ontario and have worked out an exclusive deal with our cheesemaker to make our bufala from the buffalo milk from this specific farm.
Matt

Dear Matthew, that is a prudent solution. This way your mozzarella is neither frozen and later defrosted, nor aged. I thank you for your response. Good night!
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #711 on: October 16, 2011, 10:14:16 PM »
How did you attach the steel plate to the copper handle on your peel?

Fantastic job on your copper turning peel.  Omid you are so talented!

Thank you! As the expression goes, "Necessity is mother of invention." I got tired of burning my fingers oftentimes with the metal panel/shield in front of my oven, as my American Pride metal pizza peel has a short handle, and it is not easy to rotate the pizza with it inside the oven. The hardest part of making the turning peel was cutting the steel plate with tin snips. Steel is not easy to cut in a circle. As I tried to cut it, the edges, which were razor-sharp, kept stabbing and slicing my fingers.

In regard to attaching the steel plate to the handle, see if the diagram below helps. The steel plate has to be hard enough not to bend too much. And, after the handle is attached to the plate, the copper endings need to be gently hammered in order to be flattened. As you know, copper is soft and flexible metal, but it can be reinforced by another copper pipe of smaller length and diameter that is inserted, hammered, inside the other one. If I had better tools, I think I could have come up with a better design. Good night!
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #712 on: October 17, 2011, 05:09:03 AM »
Omid, do you reball your dough if it spreds durring the rise

Never!

Dear Thezaman, the principal reason I responded "Never!" to your question is because re-balling an overspread Neapolitan dough ball, in my opinion, forever changes both the texture and the flavor of the dough in a negative manner. I do not know of any professional Neapolitan pizzeria in Naples that would do that. And, if they do, it would be because of financial reasons—while knowing the re-balled dough ball is desecrated! I have heard of a Neapolitan pizzeria here in the U.S. that fired its employee for re-balling. My preferred method is pictorially illustrated below. The dough balls in the pictures were hydrated at 62.5% and had been resting in controlled room temperature for over 48 hours. Have a great week!
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 02:12:35 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
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Offline thezaman

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #713 on: October 17, 2011, 08:11:16 AM »
omid, did you work the dough into around form before stretching?if so was it hard to open because of this?

Offline thezaman

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #714 on: October 17, 2011, 08:12:45 AM »
that is a very appetizing pizza!!

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #715 on: October 17, 2011, 10:56:24 AM »
omid, did you work the dough into around form before stretching?if so was it hard to open because of this?

that is a very appetizing pizza!!

Dear Thezaman, thank you and good morning! All I did was as follows, step by step:

1. I sprinkled some flour on the dough balls to make them stable and unsticky.

2. With the dough scraper, I released the edges of the dough balls from one another and from the walls of the dough tray. To accomplish this, I guided the scraper's blade downward (at a more or less perpendicular angle to the surface of the tray). Once the blade completely touched the tray floor, I guided it forward (akin to shoveling snow, at an angle greater than 90° where possible) toward the respective centers of the dough balls, with the least amount of pressure possible. (See picture No. 2 above.)

3. Still with the aid of the dough scraper, I rapidly slid in 1 or 2 inches of the scraper beneath the rims of the dough balls and toward their respective centers (simultaneously pushing in some flour and shrinking the diameter of the balls) and rapidly slid out the scraper. (No tucking in!) This rapid sliding in and out of the circumference of the balls is done without disturbing the overall dough texture as much as possible. In essence, all I did was to release the bottom of the dough balls from the tray surface and get rid of some of the pockets of air throughout the balls—all with the aid of the dough scraper, not my fingers. (See picture No. 3 above.)

4. After the dough balls where made manageable, I picked up one with the dough scraper, and placed it upside-down (face down/base up) on the marble top that had already been dusted.

5. After freeing my hands, I turned the dough ball, again, upside-down (face up/base down) with my fingers and proceeded to form a dough disc, which was effortlessly achieved without a hitch. (See pictures No. 4 & 5 above.)

During this process of gathering the overspread dough ball, the dough was not pressured and made dense, so that it would bake into a tender and flavorful crust with the characteristic cornicione. Again, all I did was I released the edges and the bottoms, and divested the dough balls of some air pockets by shrinking their diameters without tucking in the rims. The general principle to keep in mind is that a baked crust is tougher and less flavorful in proportion to how much the Neapolitan dough is handled prior to baking it. If I had "re-balled" the dough above, the baked cornicione would have appeared impoverished, harsh, pale, and less prominent. To recap, as a generalization, a re-balled and re-relaxed Neapolitan dough is more likely to bake into a less tender and less flavorful crust. In addition, a re-balled and re-relaxed Neapolitan dough is more likely to tear upon being stretched into a dough disc. Good day!
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 12:10:04 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline thezaman

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #716 on: October 17, 2011, 03:08:16 PM »
Thank you , you use you scraper to rond the puck yes? This method is very helpful to me as I cannot work with dough that is miss shaped and have it come out decent . Thank you and good afternoon!!!

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #717 on: October 18, 2011, 12:13:49 PM »
Thank you , you use you scraper to rond the puck yes? . . .

Yes, I solely used the scraper, not my fingers, to reshape the dough balls—without changing their texture and density as much as possible. Good day!
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #718 on: October 18, 2011, 12:25:30 PM »
Omid,

I don't think I've ever known anyone - if only through a forum such as this - that puts so much effort into uncompromising professionalism in everything he or she puts forward. It's not just your pizza or your oven or your unwavering passion, but also in the tangential details such as your diagram answering my question about attaching the plate to the handle of your peel.

You have my utmost respect.

Craig
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #719 on: October 18, 2011, 09:04:37 PM »
Agreed. Salute! and Good Night~