A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!

[Mmmph]

Omid,

I dig your posts. It is the critical thinking aspect of cooking, baking and food preparation that makes it exciting for me. Your explanations are refreshing in light of all the scientifically based questions directed towards you. I do not find them evasive or confusing, only enlightening and thought provoking.

Just last night a friend commented on my way of speaking about dough. His comments were focused on my perception of it as a living organism and treating it well, nurturing it and watching it grow and develop successfully....like a child. He thought it strange.

I recall the first occasion where I attempted to make dough without measuring the flour. I just kept adding the flour until it looked, felt, and "seemed" ready. I don't know the hydration, I could only guess. As I baked the pizze and talked with my guests about this batch, they all agreed it was as fine a  batch of dough that I had ever made. This experience guides me today as I use my senses more and more to "know" if what I'm doing is correct.

[Jet_deck]

I hope I have clearly articulated my thoughts (although I doubt it because of my constraint of time) on the subject. Good night!

Yes, crystal clear and thanks.

It is unfortunate about that soup picture.  It reminds me of summer; no class.

[Pizza Napoletana]

I dig your posts. . . .

Yes, crystal clear. . . .

Thank you guys!

[Pizza Napoletana]

Pizzas baked last night (dough prepared with Santos fork mixer):

Hydration: 57%
Flour: Caputo Pizzeria
Total dough weight: 2507 grams
Mechanical mixing time: 1 minute & 20 seconds
Mechanical kneading Time: 5 minutes
Fermentation (lievito madre): 4 + 14 hours at controlled room temperature 67° - 78° F
Oven: Home gas oven floor 678° F

[Pizza Napoletana]

Continuation:

[Pizza Napoletana]

Will you explain the "point of dough" or the "point of pasta"? . . . Peter referenced a post by Marco, and he used the following words :"It is very difficult to explain  how to recognize my dough point. I just happen to know by experience. I could tell you that when the dough start coming away from the side of the bowl, but still stick to the bottom, that is a good sign."

Dear Jet_Deck, I made the following addition to my earlier post on "point of pasta":

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14506.360.html (See Reply #377)

"4. A kneaded mixture of water and wheat flour reaches the point of pasta when there is a relative skin formation—or when the mixture is encompassed by or embodied in its own skin. (I believe this statement correlates with Mr. Marco Parente's statement: "[W]hen the dough start coming away from the side of the bowl, but still stick to the bottom, that is a good sign." A "good sign" because now the dough skin, as opposed to the walls of the bowl, can contain its own dough mass.)"

Good day!

[Jet_deck]

Your skin analagy was one big thing that stood out to me from reading your post.

[JConk007]

Omid,
I notice different look than the cheese slices/strips any reason for change or just keeping it fresh? and you must have been hungry taking bites out of the crust before Taking pictures ?  I am just kidding obviously they look great as usual! The skin analogy is helpful too. Is that the 10 qt Santos model you have?
thanks
John

[Pizza Napoletana]

Marco is Marco Parente, a native of Naples who now lives and works in the UK. . . . If you read Marco's posts, which I often recommend that members who are serious about the Neapolitan style do, you will see a decidedly purist approach to that style. . . . Marco ended up telling and teaching the members a great deal about the authentic Neapolitan style. At times he was cryptic in his writings, . . . It also helped that I read all of his posts several times. . . .

Peter referenced a post by Marco, and he used the following words :"It is very difficult to explain  how to recognize my dough point. I just happen to know by experience. I could tell you that when the dough start coming away from the side of the bowl, but still stick to the bottom, that is a good sign."

Dear Jet_Deck, I made the following addition to my earlier post on "point of pasta":
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14506.360.html (See Reply #377)

"4. A kneaded mixture of water and wheat flour reaches the point of pasta when there is a relative skin formation—or when the mixture is encompassed by or embodied in its own skin. (I believe this statement correlates with Mr. Marco Parente's statement: "[W]hen the dough start coming away from the side of the bowl, but still stick to the bottom, that is a good sign." A "good sign" because now the dough skin, as opposed to the walls of the bowl, can contain its own dough mass.)"

Over the course of past week, I took some time to read many of Mr. Marco Parente's worthful posts (thanks to dear Peter) in this forum. I find him an interesting character and quite knowledgeable, as a young man, on the subject of la pizza napoletana! I wished he was still amongst us.

Like Mr. Peter, I had to read his posts many times to embrace their full merit and to grasp their unstated logical inferences. (English language not being my mother tongue, I can understand the limitations of his English.) I think that often what he wrote here is of less importance than what he either intentionally or subconsciously implied. I had to read between the lines to catch the full meaning and significance of what he attempted to get across. (That is a good teaching method when a teacher makes his pupil think and give birth to an answer to a question.) Do you gentlemen know any website that illustrates his pizzas? Does he have a website or blog? Thank you!

Omid

[Pizza Napoletana]

Omid,
I notice different look than the cheese slices/strips any reason for change or just keeping it fresh? and you must have been hungry taking bites out of the crust before Taking pictures ?  I am just kidding obviously they look great as usual! The skin analogy is helpful too. Is that the 10 qt Santos model you have?

Dear John, sometimes I get weary of my pizzas looking all the same! So, I try to be creative by slicing the cheese in different geometric shapes and configuring the cornicione differently to keep me regaled.

In regard to my Santos mixer (model #18), yes, its capacity is 10 quarts (or 10 liters, which translates to 5 kg or 11 lbs of dough). Have a great night!

[Pizza Napoletana]

Pizzas baked tonight (dough prepared with Santos fork mixer):

Hydration: 57%
Flour: Caputo Pizzeria
Total dough weight: 2507 grams
Mechanical mixing time: 1 minute
Mechanical kneading Time: 4 minutes and 30 seconds
Fermentation (fresh yeast, 0.20 gram): 1 + 24 hours at controlled room temperature 67° - 76° F
Oven: Home gas oven floor 669° F

[Jet_deck]

Are you open for business yet? 

[Pizza Napoletana]

Are you open for business yet? 

I have not even begun sending out my resumés to the San Diego pizzerias yet!  Anyone hiring? 

[Jet_deck]

I have not even begun sending out my resumés to the San Diego pizzerias yet!   Anyone hiring?  

Perhaps your photography skills are keeping you afloat?   Regardless, they look melt in my mouth good.

In general what is the price range of the oven that you have posted pictures of?  $3,000 or less, or above $3000.00?  None of my business, but I don't really feel like contacting them directly.  Thanks.

Just how do you measure .2 gram of fresh yeast?  You must have one of those fancy California herb scales?

[TXCraig1]

Just how do you measure .2 gram of fresh yeast?  You must have one of those fancy California herb scales?

It's easy. Dissolve 1g fresh yeast in 99g water and then take 20g of the mixture. You'll have 0.2g yeast and 19.8g water.

CL

[Jackie Tran]

It's easy. Dissolve 1g fresh yeast in 99g water and then take 20g of the mixture. You'll have 0.2g yeast and 19.8g water.

CL

This is a great technique.  I take 1 gm of CY and mix it in 9ml of water.  Then use 2ml (0.2gm) of the solution.  I also leave out 2cc when measuring out the water initially for the formula.

Chau

[chrisgraff]

I have not even begun sending out my resumés to the San Diego pizzerias yet!  Anyone hiring? 

Omid,
This thread has been accessed over 13,000 times since your original entry, posted 51 days ago.  Perhaps you should start your own blog.

Chris

[Pizza Napoletana]

In general what is the price range of the oven that you have posted pictures of?  $3,000 or less, or above $3000.00?  None of my business, but I don't really feel like contacting them directly.  Thanks.

Just how do you measure .2 gram of fresh yeast?  You must have one of those fancy California herb scales?

It's easy. Dissolve 1g fresh yeast in 99g water and then take 20g of the mixture. You'll have 0.2g yeast and 19.8g water.

This is a great technique.  I take 1 gm of CY and mix it in 9ml of water.  Then use 2ml (0.2gm) of the solution.  I also leave out 2cc when measuring out the water initially for the formula.

Dear Craig and Chau, that is a sagacious way of weighing 0.20 grams of fresh yeast. Very wily! However, I utilized, as Jet_Deck put it, a "fancy California herb scale" to weigh 0.20 grams of fresh yeast. In particular, I used a professional food scale (manufactured by Ohaus, model Valor V31XH402), which can weigh ingredients as light as 0.1 grams and as heavy as 4000 grams. (A cheaper alternative is a Ohaus pocket jewelry scale, which is about $40 to $60 dollars and can weigh an object as light as 0.01 gram and as heavy as 100 or 200 grams.) Of course, using such diminutive amount of fresh yeast, I had to first hydrate and thoroughly dissolve the fresh yeast in 50 grams of cold water, which was later (i.e., after no more than 10 minutes, as advised by some professional bakers) added to 845 grams of water. From that point forward, I used the direct method:

Flour: 1570 gr. (datum)
Water: 895 gr. (57%)
Yeast: 0.2 gr. (0.0127%)
Salt: 43 gr. (2.73%) 

(50 gr. Water → 0.2 gr. Yeast) → 845 gr. Water → 1570 Flour → 43 gr. Salt → 1 Hour Ferm. → Dough Balls → 24 Hours Ferm.

In reality, by doing all these experiments, I am trying to find a way to compensate for the fast kneading-speed of the Santos fork mixer. The fast speed takes its toll on the tenderness!

Dear Jet_Deck, the Forno Piccolo Rosso (which is constructed with a brick dome, as opposed to cement dome, and is topped with several layers of insulation) is $2,600.00 dollars. A regular Forno Piccolo, without the red or whatever color tiles, is, I think, about $300.00 cheaper.

Good day gentlemen!

[Pete-zza]

Omid,

When you state that the dough is fermented at a "controlled room temperature of x", is that a typical room temperature range at the place where the dough is fermented or do you actually "control" the room temperature range?

Peter

[Pizza Napoletana]

Omid,

When you state that the dough is fermented at a "controlled room temperature of x", is that a typical room temperature range at the place where the dough is fermented or do you actually "control" the room temperature range?

Peter

Dear Peter, to fully answer your question, and perhaps to benefit some beginners here in this forum, I need to do a little explaining. For the purpose of making pizza dough and fermenting it for a long period of time (about 24 or more hours) with as little as leavening culture or fresh yeast possible, my optimal temperature range is 77° to 67° to 78°-81° F under the extant conditions in and around my kitchen during summers. To that effect, I usually begin making dough around 9:00 PM, during nighttime, when the outdoor and indoor temperatures are subsiding. As the German philosopher Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel stated in his masterpiece, "Only when the dusk starts to fall does the owl of Minerva spread its wings and fly!" Given my particular situation and logistics, the nighttime heat diminution confers greater temperature manipulation than the daytime heat escalation.

By 10:00 PM, after the dough is made in my kitchen (which is about 77° F during summer, with the kitchen door, to the outside, and window fully open), I transfer the dough to the small entrance room, whose 3 out of 4 walls are made of glass and iron frames. Further, the entrance room is never subject to direct sunlight because of the tall trees surrounding it. With one window open, both the in and out doors closed, one small fan, not AC, running on medium speed by the open window, and the dough container placed inside a protective (against the direct fan blow) and roomy marble chamber (constructed with 5 white carrara marble tiles 19x19 inches, no top) placed on the naked floor,—the temperature at the floor-level of the chamber reaches about 70° F by 10:00 PM. By 12:00 AM, the floor-level temperature reaches about 67° F, and it is maintained all the way until around 9:00 or 10:00 AM, whereby the temperature gradually escalates to about 78° F by 4:00 PM. (If the floor-level temperature becomes hotter than necessary, I will place a couple of frozen water bottles inside the marble chamber to keep it cool. They work so well!) Thereafter, if needed, I transfer the dough balls back to the kitchen to enjoy warmer temperatures and to be relaxed and levitated. I use this method mostly during warm seasons; during cold seasons the dough stays in the kitchen most of the time. Good day!