Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 171247 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #480 on: September 11, 2011, 12:42:07 PM »
A flat tabletop might be a bit harsh on the dough for the purpose of making Neapolitan style pizza dough.

I agree completely. I only use a flat surface for bread.

Craig
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #481 on: September 11, 2011, 01:56:42 PM »
UPDATE:
I am so dismayed about this business of blowing air into the dough! I just closely examined all the dough balls:

1) The air-blown dough balls are susceptible to tears upon being stretched into dough discs. In addition they are of tough texture, like rubber.
2) On the other hand, the non-air-blown dough balls pleasantly stretch into dough discs without any tears. And, they are gratifyingly soft and extensible.

I need to find out how much air-blowing is enough during kneading in order to keep the dough temperature low enough and keep the dough texture agreeable enough. This has been an enlightening experiment: the effects of air on dough during kneaing. Very interesting! As our friend Alex_chef put it, "This is a fantastic World of trial and error. . . ."

Last night, I made another "air-blown" dough mass with my Kitchen Aid mixer:

1000  grams of Caputo Pizzeria Flour (Datum Point) (72.4° F)
600    grams of water                     (60%)            (59.9° F)
1.00   gram  of fresh yeast              (1%)             (43.3° F)
27.70 grams of sea salt                   (2.77%)         (75.1° F)

I used the same, exact percentages as the day before yesterday, except I increased the hydration level to 60%. Unfortunately, since I did not have my friend's Kitchen Aid mixer and his assistance, I did not make an identical non-air-blown dough batch to compare with my air-blown batch. I followed the same procedure (described in Reply #467) in making the dough:

1. I hand mixed, not knead, all the above ingredients.
2. I let the mixture rest for 1 hour.
3. By the end of the rest period, the mixture had an internal temperature of exactly 71.9° F (wow, just like the day before yesterday!).
4. Using my Kitchen Aid mixer (Professional 600) and its spiral dough hook, I kneaded the dough for 11 minutes (9 minutes, the day before yesterday) while the USB fan blew air into the mixer bowl for only the first 5 minutes of the 11-minute kneading period.
5. After the kneading was over, the dough mass reached an internal temperature of 77.4° F and a surface temperature of 79.5° F.
6. After a short rest period and 1 hour of initial fermentation, I formed dough balls out of the dough mass. (See the first picture below.)

The dough did not feel like having a 60% hydration; it felt like a 56%-hydration dough. It was neither runny and loose, nor sticky and gummy. Great texture and constitution! However, according to an old proverb, "Chicks should be counted by the end of autumn!"

The second picture below (shot today at 9:12 AM, Pacific time) exhibits the dough balls, which have been undergoing fermentation since 9:11 PM last night. I believe the tiny bumps on the surface of the dough balls, in the first picture, were due to the air-blow. Obviously, blowing air during kneading has significant impact upon dough.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 08:23:06 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
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http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #482 on: September 11, 2011, 07:29:56 PM »
I have the same timer, small one of left.

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #483 on: September 11, 2011, 07:47:26 PM »
I have the same timer, small one of left.

Cool! It is a nice timer.
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
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http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Online Jackie Tran

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #484 on: September 11, 2011, 07:56:33 PM »
Omid, I noticed that these last several batches, you divided and balled the dough after a relatively short period of bulk fermentation compared to some of your previously posted doughs.  Why the change in workflow and what differences are you noticing between balling the dough early versus late?

Chau

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #485 on: September 11, 2011, 07:58:50 PM »
One obvious change is that you baked at a much higher temp in your home oven and shortened the bake time.  How did you achieve this? Chau

In regard to my home gas-oven, I have made a number of modifications. . . . Tonight, after some fine-tuning, the floor of the oven (i.e., the pizza stone) reached 903 F in 20 minutes. At that temperature, I need to build, as I have done before, an interior oven door, acting as a fixed second door, that will have a half-moon opening through it. This way the oven hopefully will neither overheat, nor lose a lot of heat, and I will be able to observe, rotate, and dome the pizzas as they bake.

Dear Chau, here it is! I will be testing the oven tonight!
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #486 on: September 11, 2011, 08:06:32 PM »
Omid, I noticed that these last several batches, you divided and balled the dough after a relatively short period of bulk fermentation compared to some of your previously posted doughs.  Why the change in workflow and what differences are you noticing between balling the dough early versus late?

Chau

Dear Chau, the change in my workflow is due to the hot weather. I basically slow down fermentation by making the dough balls early in the process. Good day!
« Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 08:11:31 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline flyboy4ual

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #487 on: September 12, 2011, 12:21:26 AM »
Good luck with the test.  I can't wait to see the results.

Scott D

Online Jackie Tran

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #488 on: September 12, 2011, 12:45:08 AM »
Dear Chau, the change in my workflow is due to the hot weather. I basically slow down fermentation by making the dough balls early in the process. Good day!

I don't understand yet, but perhaps in due time.  In the meantime, your home oven looks fantastic!

Besides the cleaning cycle hack (a la Varasano), this could very well be the missing link for the home oven baked NP for those of us whose ovens don't have a cleaning cycle.  This is potentially a huge step forward for home pizza making.  Bravo Omid!

Do you bake with the oven door open?  That 2nd faux door, is that made with sheet metal?  Again, fantastic work Omid!  

Chau
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 06:45:50 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #489 on: September 12, 2011, 06:30:09 AM »
Dear Chau, here it is! I will be testing the oven tonight!

Omid - your home oven is astounding. You never cease to amaze me with your experiments.

John

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #490 on: September 13, 2011, 03:53:04 PM »
Good luck with the test.  I can't wait to see the results.
Scott D

Dear Scott thank you! I will post the results later today. Good day!
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #491 on: September 13, 2011, 04:56:19 PM »
Omid - your home oven is astounding. You never cease to amaze me with your experiments.
John

Dear John, thank you! Yesterday, I bagan to redesign the oven, changing the interior walls and floor, in addition to building a ceiling/dome made with thin terracotta bricks. Have a good day!
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline pizza dr

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #492 on: September 14, 2011, 10:26:53 PM »
What the..........  It has taken me three days to read this thread (I have unfortunately been to busy to lurk like I usually do)... rushed home from work, rode 25 miles on my bike, made some dinner, drank a fine glass of Oregon Pinot and logged on to see how Omid is gonna roll with this thing.  Nothing.  I guess I'll just have to have another glass and wait it out 
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 10:32:36 PM by pizza dr »

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #493 on: September 15, 2011, 02:54:49 AM »
Besides the cleaning cycle hack (a la Varasano), this could very well be the missing link for the home oven baked NP for those of us whose ovens don't have a cleaning cycle. This is potentially a huge step forward for home pizza making. That 2nd faux door, is that made with sheet metal? Bravo Omid!

Do you bake with the oven door open?

What the..........  It has taken me three days to read this thread (I have unfortunately been to busy to lurk like I usually do)... rushed home from work, rode 25 miles on my bike, made some dinner, drank a fine glass of Oregon Pinot and logged on to see how Omid is gonna roll with this thing. Nothing.  I guess I'll just have to have another glass and wait it out

Dear Chau, you asked, "Do you bake with the oven door open?" Yes, that is the idea, at least one of them! However, I have to let the oven run for about 2 hours before I can do so. And, I keep the oven door open only during baking. In between the bakes, the oven door is kept closed. Now the oven can burn wood too (inside a small cast iron skillet placed below the broiler), just a small amount for the sake of the smoke flavor!!! I still need to do more work on the oven; the job is not finished yet. At last, you inquired, "That 2nd faux door, is that made with sheet metal?" Yes, it is made with thick, heavy duty, aluminum sheets.

By the way, I had to move the oven from my kitchen to the patio. This kind of oven is not fit for indoor purposes at all. In addition, I had to use heavy duty insulation to protect various mechanisms and parts of the oven. Moreover, this kind of design ought not be implemented with gas ovens that have electronic parts and/or draw electricity from an electric outlet. And, the oven must not be placed near walls and/or electric outlets. Good night!

Dear Pizza Dr., how am I going to roll with what "thing"? For the past three days, I have been busy with redesigning my oven, amongst other matters. I have already dismantled and rebuilt the oven 3 times in order to optimize it for generating and sustaining high heat. It is stunning how a minute change in design can make a significant difference! A great deal of considerations and calculations have been put into this design. It has been quite educational. This Friday, I will test the oven again. Good night!
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 10:17:45 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline pizza dr

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #494 on: September 15, 2011, 06:23:11 AM »
Omid

The "thing" I was referring to was your modified oven.  Sorry, I was trying to convey my excitement for your project.  I am very intrigued by your design and can't wait to see some pizza come out of it!  Thanks for all the pictures.    

Scot
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 07:07:03 AM by pizza dr »

Offline Mick.Chicago

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #495 on: September 15, 2011, 10:25:47 AM »
I am also looking forward to seeing this ovens progress!  I've been following this thread with great interest!
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 10:28:41 AM by Mick.Chicago »

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #496 on: September 16, 2011, 12:58:40 PM »
I am very intrigued by your design and can't wait to see some pizza come out of it!
Scot

I am also looking forward to seeing this ovens progress!  I've been following this thread with great interest!

Dear Scot. and Mick.Chicago, I appreciate your interest and enthusiasm. Unfortunately, I am not wholly done with the oven yet! Yesterday, I detected some irregular "airflow" problem, which caused the oven to hiccup. I think I have fixed the issue. More than ever I realize the importance of constant and steady "airflow" in gas and wood-fired ovens. In addition, yesterday, I cemented the bricks together, installed the exhaust drain, sealed the ceiling/dome, and insulated the walls and the dome. That was a lot of work; cutting bricks is painfully difficult without the right tools! If the bricks and mortar are dry enough by tonight, I will test the oven. Otherwise, I will have to wait until tomorrow night. I wish you all a great weekend!
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 08:10:10 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline JConk007

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #497 on: September 16, 2011, 07:28:32 PM »
Omid look who I bumped into at APizz  ;D The guy was very imoressed this irishman knew the story of the Pucinella!
all thanks to you !
John
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 07:31:31 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #498 on: September 17, 2011, 03:35:10 AM »
Omid look who I bumped into at APizz  ;D The guy was very imoressed this irishman knew the story of the Pulcinella! all thanks to you!
John

Nice! Thank you for the picture.
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #499 on: September 18, 2011, 02:07:00 PM »
Dear Scot. and Mick.Chicago, I appreciate your interest and enthusiasm. Unfortunately, I am not wholly done with the oven yet! Yesterday, I detected some irregular "airflow" problem, which caused the oven to hiccup. I think I have fixed the issue. More than ever I realize the importance of constant and steady "airflow" in gas and wood-fired ovens. In addition, yesterday, I cemented the bricks together, installed the exhaust drain, sealed the ceiling/dome, and insulated the walls and the dome. That was a lot of work; cutting bricks is painfully difficult without the right tools! If the bricks and mortar are dry enough by tonight, I will test the oven. Otherwise, I will have to wait until tomorrow night. I wish you all a great weekend!

This project has proven to be a lot more challenging than I expected! I had to discard my previous design as it was not safe. It rapidly generated too much heat in a short period of time. (About 975° F in less than an hour!) The heat was too dry and very brutal, putting a lot of stress on the broiler. GAS-OVEN BROILERS THAT ARE DESIGNED FOR HOME USE ARE NOT MADE TO HANDLE HIGH HEAT; THEY CAN GET DEFORMED AND DAMAGED UNDER HIGH HEAT. As you can imagine, this can create a very dangerous situation. I had to come up with a new design and do some upgrades. Once the bricks and mortar are dry, I will test the oven.    
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 08:09:41 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
"Since I cannot move the gods above, I shall move the gods below!"
Vergilius Maro

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/


 



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