Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 367043 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Matthew

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2234
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #600 on: October 01, 2011, 06:18:36 PM »
Dear Matthew, thank you very much for the links. I am thinking about buying a SP5, but I do not like the fact that the bowl and the spiral hook are non-removable. By the way, I like the "breaker bar" you inventively installed inside your mixer. Good day!

Thanks Omid, I have since removed the breaker bar. If your concern is with respect to cleaning, it's a breeze to clean & disinfect.

Matt


Offline tscaife

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 102
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Chicago
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #601 on: October 01, 2011, 07:55:51 PM »
Thanks so much for taking the time to discuss the "point of pasta".

I have so much to learn! Enjoy the rest of the weekend!

Todd

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1347
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #602 on: October 02, 2011, 03:10:20 AM »
The only difference between tonight's pizza and last night's pizza is that tonight's pizza was prepared with Santos fork mixer instead of my hands. I prefer my hands over Santos!

1000 gr. Capto Pizzeria          (Datum Point)
575   gr. Water                     (57.50%)
28     gr. Sea Salt                 (2.8%)
30     gr. Sourdough Culture    (3%)

Dough prepared with Santos (direct method)
Mix and Kneed time: 7 minutes
Fermentation: 5 + 20 hours at controlled room temperature
Oven temperature: 912 (floor) & 856 (dome)
Bake time: 95 seconds
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 12:50:01 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1347
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #603 on: October 02, 2011, 03:10:37 AM »
Continuation:
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline wheelman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 849
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #604 on: October 02, 2011, 08:15:09 AM »
Fermentation: 5 + 20 hours

Omid, does that mean you bulk rise for 5 and then ball for 20 hours?  your dough balls always look fantastic, do they ever run together like the photos from Keste with such a long time after balling? 
thanks,
bill

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1347
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #605 on: October 02, 2011, 01:56:24 PM »
Omid, does that mean you bulk rise for 5 and then ball for 20 hours?  your dough balls always look fantastic, do they ever run together like the photos from Keste with such a long time after balling?  
thanks,
bill

Dear Bill, yes, "5+20 hours" indicates that the dough mass is initially fermented for "5 hours" (inside my marble chamber), after which it is formed into individual dough balls which undergo "20 hours" of fermentation (partly inside the marble chamber and partly on the kitchen counter). And, the dough balls do "run together" if they are left for over 20 hours. Good day!
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 08:18:55 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline pizzablogger

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1334
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #606 on: October 02, 2011, 02:39:02 PM »
Omid.....fantastic looking pizzas and excellent breakthrough with the oven.

I'm several pages behind here, so I need to catch up on this exciting breakthrough. Awesome!  :)
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1347
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #607 on: October 02, 2011, 03:12:31 PM »
Omid.....fantastic looking pizzas and excellent breakthrough with the oven.

I'm several pages behind here, so I need to catch up on this exciting breakthrough. Awesome!  :)

Dear Pizzablogger, I thank you sincerely! Very kind of you! Right now, I am re-designing the oven, again. Basically, I am elevating the pizza stone almost by half, so it would be closer to the brick dome. In addition, I will have only one layer, as opposed to two layers, of bricks in the dome. This way, I am hoping to create a better thermal balance between the floor and the dome. Again, thank you and have a good day!
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

parallei

  • Guest
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #608 on: October 02, 2011, 03:43:14 PM »
Nice work Omid!

Offline salvatoregianpaolo

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 124
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #609 on: October 02, 2011, 05:36:11 PM »
Omid,

Can you tell me why you use a 5+20 fermentation method?  Currently, I do the exact opposite:  20+4. 

Grazie tante,
Salvatore


Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12935
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #610 on: October 02, 2011, 10:33:15 PM »
Omid, your ingenuity is mind boggling, and your pies aren't far behind.

CL
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1347
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #611 on: October 03, 2011, 11:02:21 AM »
Omid,

Can you tell me why you use a 5+20 fermentation method?  Currently, I do the exact opposite:  20+4.  

Grazie tante,
Salvatore

Dear Salvatore, when I employ sourdough culture as a fermentative agent, I often, not always, use the "5+20 fermentation" mode for a number of reasons. The principal reason is that it works, for me! It procures the soft, yet stable, texture and mild sourness I favor in a dough fermented with sourdough culture. If you ask "why", this is where I need to speculate, without hopefully falling into error, as to what causes those qualities.

Given the type of flour and the hydration level I use, five hours of bulk fermentation does not considerably breakdown the gluten bonds throughout the dough; consequently, it is more efficacious toward making dough balls of stronger, unbroken, and uninterrupted skin. Another reason pertains to the exponential growth of the bacteria and fungi in dough. Since the fermentative micro-organisms within dough multiply exponentially, I assume that the sooner the dough mass is divided into dough balls, the slower will be the rate of fermentation, which in turn is productive of less lactic acid (sourness). Needless to mention, it is crucial to control the temperature throughout the process. Also, the "5+20 fermentation" mode reduces the annoying gummy residues, if any at all, on your fingers when making dough balls. (I do not know how cogent my preceding rationale, i.e., the exponential growth, is.)

At last, for me, the "5+20 fermentation", in contrast to "20+5 fermentation", produces dough balls that are more relaxed, softer, and easier to stretch into dough discs that bake into more tender crusts. Naturally, the "5+20 fermentation" mode requires use of minimal amount of yeast or sourdough culture. After all said and done, when it comes to making sourdough pizza dough, it is often recommended to follow "21+5 fermentation" or a variation thereof. Have a great day!
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 05:29:41 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline salvatoregianpaolo

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 124
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #612 on: October 03, 2011, 11:12:09 AM »
Omid,

Thank you very much for your reply.  I must think on this a bit, and examine the benefits of changing my method in a similar fashion.  Every day we learn such fantastic things!

Salvatore

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1347
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #613 on: October 03, 2011, 04:40:55 PM »
Nice work Omid!

Omid, your ingenuity is mind boggling, and your pies aren't far behind.

CL

Thank you guys! Soon, I should finish re-designing my oven. My poor gas oven has taken so much abuse! We'll see how it will perform. Good day!
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Tman1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 218
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #614 on: October 03, 2011, 08:46:36 PM »
Omid's pictures don't really make me want to post mine... those pies are far ahead of me.   :chef:  Any luck with employment?

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1347
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #615 on: October 03, 2011, 11:06:50 PM »
Here is my newly re-designed home gas oven! Unfortunately, I neglected to take a picture before sealing the interior and installing the front panel. This is a much lighter construction than the previous design. I am using half as much bricks than before so the oven can breathe more freely. Also, in comparison to the previous design, the floor is half as much farther from the broiler and half as much closer to the dome. Below is a table showing how fast the floor and the dome accumulate heat.

After 10 minutes            Floor: 397 F     Dome: 332 F
After 10 more minutes    Floor: 581 F     Dome: 472 F
After 10 more minutes    Floor: 684 F     Dome: 579 F
After 10 more minutes    Floor: 760 F     Dome: 672 F
After 10 more minutes    Floor: 809 F     Dome: 747 F
After 10 more minutes    Floor: 850 F     Dome: 805 F
After 10 more minutes    Floor: 887 F     Dome: 842 F
After 10 more minutes    Floor: 925 F     Dome: 890 F
After 10 more minutes    Floor: 956 F     Dome: 940 F
Total: 90 minutes
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1347
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #616 on: October 04, 2011, 01:57:49 AM »
Omid's pictures don't really make me want to post mine... those pies are far ahead of me.   :chef:  Any luck with employment?

Dear Tman1, I think you should post your pictures (does not matter what others may think) and watch yourself grow. Surely you would agree that crafting pizza, akin to the fine arts, is a process of personal cultivation and growth, requiring one to unfold oneself unto oneself!

In regard to finding a job as a pizzaiolo, I am still working on it. I am optimistic and confident that in time I will find a suitable position. Good night!
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 08:10:04 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1347
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #617 on: October 05, 2011, 01:29:43 AM »
Omid, Can you tell me why you use a 5+20 fermentation method?  Currently, I do the exact opposite:  20+4.  

Grazie tante,
Salvatore

Dear Salvatore, when I employ sourdough culture as a fermentative agent, I often, not always, use the "5+20 fermentation" mode for a number of reasons. The principal reason is that it works, for me! It procures the soft, yet stable, texture and mild sourness I favor in a dough fermented with sourdough culture. If you ask "why", this is where I need to speculate, without hopefully falling into error, as to what causes those qualities.

Given the type of flour and the hydration level I use, five hours of bulk fermentation does not considerably breakdown the gluten bonds throughout the dough; consequently, it is more efficacious toward making dough balls of stronger, unbroken, and uninterrupted skin. Another reason pertains to the exponential growth of the bacteria and fungi in dough. Since the fermentative micro-organisms within dough multiply exponentially, I assume that the sooner the dough mass is divided into dough balls, the slower will be the rate of fermentation, which in turn is productive of less lactic acid (sourness). Needless to mention, it is crucial to control the temperature throughout the process. Also, the "5+20 fermentation" mode reduces the annoying gummy residues, if any at all, on your fingers when making dough balls. (I do not know how cogent my preceding rationale, i.e., the exponential growth, is.)

At last, for me, the "5+20 fermentation", in contrast to "20+5 fermentation", produces dough balls that are more relaxed, softer, and easier to stretch into dough discs that bake into more tender crusts. Naturally, the "5+20 fermentation" mode requires use of minimal amount of yeast or sourdough culture. After all said and done, when it comes to making sourdough pizza dough, it is often recommended to follow "21+5 fermentation" or a variation thereof. Have a great day!

Dear Salvatore, Earlier today, I prepared dough with the following specifications:

________________________________________
1000 gr. Caputo Pizzeria      (Datum Point)
600   gr. Water                 (60%)
29     gr. Sea Salt              (2.9%)
30     gr. Sourdough Culture (3%)

♣ Dough prepared with Kitchen Aid (Direct Method: Water ⇒ Salt ⇒ Sourdough Culture ⇒ Flour)
♣ Mix and Kneed time: 16 min & 32 sec on slow speed
♣ Fermentation Period: 2 + 3 hours & counting... (at controlled room temperature)
________________________________________

As you can see, the initial mass fermentation took only "2 hours" instead of many hours. Below is a picture of the dough mass after 2 hours of fermentation. I have also included pictures, below, of the dough balls I formed out of the mass.

Please, take notice how smooth, unbroken, and uninterrupted the skins on the dough balls are. There are no tears or breakages of any kind on the skins, which, in my opinion, is critical for better development, fermentation, and levitation of the dough balls, in addition to setting the stage for better formation of dough discs out of the balls.

Also, notice that I used absolutely no flour on the dough and the marble top in making the dough balls. At last, after I formed the dough balls, there were very, very little gummy residues left on my fingers. I thought I pictorially illustrate what I talked about above. Have a great night!
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 03:55:04 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline bakeshack

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 715
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #618 on: October 05, 2011, 01:37:18 AM »
Omid,

I appreciate the detailed pics of the dough (bulk and balls).  Can you post some pics of the dough as soon as it becomes ready for baking?  I guess this is similar to what I wanted to see with Craig's NP dough in his own thread. 

Thanks!

Marlon


Offline Pizza Napoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1347
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • A Philosophy of Pizza Napoletanismo
Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #619 on: October 05, 2011, 08:10:16 AM »
Omid,

I appreciate the detailed pics of the dough (bulk and balls).  Can you post some pics of the dough as soon as it becomes ready for baking?  I guess this is similar to what I wanted to see with Craig's NP dough in his own thread. Thanks!
Marlon

Dear Marlon, I will do so. Have a great day!
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/