Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO! (Read 173774 times)

pizza dr · « **Reply #820 on:** November 09, 2011, 10:06:54 AM »

Omid

I was looking for something that had been mentioned in your thread last night. What I noticed was your pictures. Have you gone back and looked through your pictures? What I have noticed is there has been an pretty amazing transformation of your pizzas. I'm sure there has been a great deal of work that has gone into your pizzas and experiments, but everyone that has read this thread has benefited.

Thank you very much

Scot

Steve · « **Reply #821 on:** November 09, 2011, 02:57:17 PM »

Beautiful pies... and beautiful photography.

Pizza Napoletana · « **Reply #822 on:** November 09, 2011, 08:32:06 PM »

Quote from: Jaws on November 08, 2011, 03:49:12 PM

I have been reading this thread for quite a while and I think it is great. Thank you to everyone for contributing.

Omid, I wanted to comment on your oven setup. I cook my pizzas on a modified gas grill and I have a similar problem in that the heat source is below the cooking surface leading to a temperate difference between the top stone and the bottom stone. I have had some success with a few modifications.

First, like you, I built an enclosure bring the top heating surface closer to the pizza and, like you, I found that a round bottom stone was better for the reasons you have stated.

Second, I chose the bottom stone to be as small as possible, while still big enough to fit the desired pizza size, so that the bottom heat has more room to pass the bottom stone and reflect off the top sheet.

Third, I found that the thermal conductivity of most pizza stones was too high leading to charring on the bottom before the top was sufficiently cooked. By stacking the bottom stones I believe you are trying to slow the heating of the bottom stone to achieve better top-bottom heat balance. I found that cooking on a material with lower thermal conductivity was also very helpful. I use fire brick splits (half thick) as my cooking surface shaped just large enough to fit my pizza. I think most pizza stones are designed for relatively low-temperature ovens and hence the high thermal conductivity is helpful. However, as the temperature gets very high, this conductivity can be a problem.

-Jeff

Quote from: pizza dr on November 09, 2011, 10:06:54 AM

Omid, I was looking for something that had been mentioned in your thread last night. What I noticed was your pictures. Have you gone back and looked through your pictures? What I have noticed is there has been an pretty amazing transformation of your pizzas. I'm sure there has been a great deal of work that has gone into your pizzas and experiments, but everyone that has read this thread has benefited.

Thank you very much
Scot

Dear Jeff and Scot, I, with gratitude and humbleness, appreciate your interests in this thread! This thread—which offers a limited perspective based on my limited knowledge (hopefully not too distorted and erroneous) of Pizza Napoletana—has been embellished and enhanced by the participants such as yourselves, our care, and our insatiable curiosity. Truly, a good pizza, either Neapolitan or non-Neapolitan, does not happen by miracle. It takes commitment, diligence, consideration, practice, patience, and—the willingness to overcome and sublimate our fears and impulses! As the German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche (for whom "art" was an outcome of "sublimation of human impulses") expressed: "There is a lake that one day refused to flow off and erected a dam where it had hitherto flowed off: ever since, this lake has been rising higher and higher." So, metaphorically speaking, I perpetually keep trying and trying to build a better dam!

Dear Scot, by the time I joined this wonderful forum on 5/4/2011, I had stopped actively making homemade pizzas for over a decade. So, I had a great many things to gradually remember and regain, particularly when I became determined to bring my current career to an end and throw myself back into the pizza business. It has been quite a challenge, which is partially chronicled in this thread. And, I still have a long way to go! Hence, yes, I confirm your statement: "Have you gone back and looked through your pictures? What I have noticed is there has been an pretty amazing transformation of your pizzas." Of course, a main breakthrough came when I managed to transform my gas oven, an ongoing process, which has not been easy. In my opinion, many of the pizza pictures that we may neglect in this forum could have been revered if the pizzas were baked in more appropriate ovens. Obviously, we have to deal with and make the best of what we have.

Talking about ovens, dear Jeff, I find your comments thoughtful. Within this context, generally, better results are to be gained using "circular" pizza stones which, I assume, enhance the airflow, hence a more uniform distribution of heat, around the pizza. And, you are quite right by stating, "By stacking the bottom stones [on the floor] I believe you are trying to slow the heating of the bottom stone to achieve better top-bottom heat balance." Basically, the stack's two bottom stones act as a buffer between the primary source of heat below them and the third pizza stone above them. Also, this arrangement gives the dome the opportunity to surpass the floor temperature. In addition, the three-pizza-stone stack gives me a longer "optimal bake time-frame" (about 1 hour). However, the price to pay is a longer time (about 1 hour & 20 minutes) to prime the oven. Of course, the "time-frame" and the "priming time" can be manipulated.

Good night gentlemen!
Omid

Pizza Napoletana · « **Reply #823 on:** November 09, 2011, 08:42:35 PM »

Quote from: Steve on November 09, 2011, 02:57:17 PM

Beautiful pies... and beautiful photography.

Dear Steve, I thank you for your generous compliment, in addition to sincerely expressing my gratitude to you and your colleagues for making this marvelous forum possible. Good night!

Pizza Napoletana · « **Reply #824 on:** November 10, 2011, 05:54:56 AM »

Good morning! Below are the last night pizzas. The dough was prepared with my Santos fork mixer per the procedure put forth in Reply #803 in this thread. I can imagine how much better the pizzas would have been if they were baked in a wood-fired oven. Nevertheless, my gas oven is doing a splendid job. Sixty-seven percent hydration is stupendous!
________________________________________
Flour: 1000 gr. Caputo Pizzeria (Datum Point)
Water: 670 gr. (67%)
Sea Salt: 30 gr. (3%)
Natural Leaven: 25 gr. (2.5%)

☞ The total hydration is actually in excess of 67% because of the liquid sourdough culture.
________________________________________
Direct Method: Water (73.8° F) ➡ Salt (67.5° F) ➡ Starter (70.8° F) ➡ Flour (63.9° F) = Pasta (73.3° F)

Mix Time: 2 minutes
Knead Time: 5 minutes

☞ No interruption between mixing & kneading, and both mixing and kneading were continuous within themselves.
________________________________________
1st Fermentation (in mass): 2 hours at room temperature 69 - 70° F
2nd Fermentation (in balls): (29 hours in the marble chamber at 64 - 68° F)
Final Dough Ball Temperature Before Baking: 68° F
________________________________________
Gas Oven Temperatures: Floor = 859° F & Ceiling = 901° F
________________________________________

Pizza Napoletana · « **Reply #825 on:** November 10, 2011, 05:56:16 AM »

Continued . . .

Pizza Napoletana · « **Reply #826 on:** November 10, 2011, 05:57:39 AM »

Continued . . .

Pizza Napoletana · « **Reply #827 on:** November 10, 2011, 05:58:55 AM »

Continued . . .

JConk007 · « **Reply #828 on:** November 10, 2011, 09:21:03 AM »

Omid,
Exquisite pies as always! Can't say that enough.
Going back a bit could you explain the dough balloon technique?
Thank you
Good day!

Pizza Napoletana · « **Reply #829 on:** November 10, 2011, 06:04:29 PM »

Quote from: JConk007 on November 10, 2011, 09:21:03 AM

Omid, exquisite pies as always! Can't say that enough. Going back a bit could you explain the dough balloon technique?
Thank you
Good day!

Thank you, dear JConk! The "dough balloon test", as stated in Reply #803 in this thread, was to examine the balls' "consistency, elasticity, and extensibility in order to discern how uniformly and how smoothly the dough ball was constituted." Since the Santos mixer necessarily entails manual intervention (considerably more than other countertop mixers that I know of) and since I am quite wary of the fast fork speed thereof (fearing that it may overwork the dough), I carried out the test in order to evaluate the effects of my manual intervention and the development of the dough.

In the flour industry, the technical term for the dough ballon test is "Alveograph" or "Chopin Alveograph" test. This industry standard test measures the rheological properties (deformation and flow attributes of matter) of wheat dough in order to analyze its resistance to stretching and extensibility, while air is blown inside the dough under controlled conditions, until the bubble ruptures.

To conduct the test, an instrument, the "alveograph", is employed to quantitatively calculate the gluten strength of dough by gauging its "P" factor (the needed force to burst the dough bubble), "L" factor (the dough extensibility antecedent to the rupture), "W" factor (the correlation between the "P" factor [amount of force] and "L" factor [dough expansion] to the point of breakage), and "P/L" factor (the proportionality ratio between the "P" factor [dough strength] and "L" factor [dough extensibility]).

According to Antico Molino Captuo, the rheological properties of the "00 Pizzeria" flour are:

W: 280 - 320
P/L: 0.5 - 0.6

To make some sense out of the raw rheological data above, According to TheArtisan.net:

• "Flours with a high 'P' value tend to have a high gluten content and absorb a relatively large quantity of water."
• "'L' represents the extensibility of the dough or its ability to rise."
•"'W' is proportional to the baking strength of the dough. Values of 'W' range from 45 for very soft flours to 400 for very strong, hard red wheat flours."
•"The relationship between 'P' and 'L' [i.e., the 'P/L'] expressed as a ratio serves as an index of gluten behavior. High values of 'P' and 'W' indicate a strong flour." (See the "W Table" below.)
(http://www.theartisan.net/flour_criteria_judging.htm)

Besides the "alveograph", there is another industry standard flour/dough analysis known as "farinograph", for which you can check out the following link as a starting point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farinograph.

Good day!
Omid

Pizza Napoletana · « **Reply #830 on:** November 10, 2011, 06:05:11 PM »

Continued . . .

JConk007 · « **Reply #831 on:** November 10, 2011, 06:36:57 PM »

Fascinating Got it

I am familiar with the P/L and W but have never seen this balloon test or such equipment. Let me thank you for the clarification with your detailed explanation! However, I will probably opt to purchase my forcella mixer before the Alveographe machine.

John

Pizza Napoletana · « **Reply #832 on:** November 10, 2011, 08:27:07 PM »

Interesting video . . . Pizzaiolo Gino Sorbillo at work!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2PG7EY4GGE" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2PG7EY4GGE</a>

Pizza Napoletana · « **Reply #833 on:** November 11, 2011, 02:27:08 AM »

Tonight's pizzas (from the same batch of dough that engendered the the last night pizzas in Reply #824 above):

Pizza Napoletana · « **Reply #834 on:** November 11, 2011, 02:28:05 AM »

Continued . . .

Pizza Napoletana · « **Reply #835 on:** November 11, 2011, 02:29:00 AM »

Continued . . .

Jet_deck · « **Reply #836 on:** November 11, 2011, 09:53:38 AM »

Spectacular as always Omid.

I have a quick question related to a comment you have made in the past about the Neapolitan wallet.
A google search finds me no references like this.
A search here only finds two others: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1258.msg65065.html#msg65065
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,499.msg4319.html#msg4319

Can you tell us any more from your knowledge? Thanks always.

Pizza Napoletana · « **Reply #837 on:** November 12, 2011, 05:35:48 AM »

Quote from: Jet_deck on November 11, 2011, 09:53:38 AM

Spectacular as always Omid. I have a quick question related to a comment you have made in the past about the Neapolitan wallet. A google search finds me no references like this. A search here only finds two others: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1258.msg65065.html#msg65065
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,499.msg4319.html#msg4319
Can you tell us any more from your knowledge? Thanks always.

Dear Jet_deck, my gratitudes!

As far as I know, the term "Neapolitan wallet" is intimately associated with the peculiar "tenderness" of Neapolitan pizza crust¹ and cornicione, and it can be a tendentious subject. It is rooted in the Neapolitan tradition which, like many traditional values, is of obscure genesis. Over the years, I have heard many accounts or theories as to the origin of Neapolitans favoring tender pizza crusts. Some of them are as follows:

•They like tender pizza crust because in the dawn of pizza they had to make the oven temperature intense to compensate for the lack of proper fermentation which was not uncommon in those days.
• . . . because it used to be a food sold mainly by the street peddlers who naturally could not provide tables, plates, forks, and knives.
• . . . because it used to be a street food meant to be eaten while standing or walking, without the benefits of tables, plates, and utensils.
• . . . because that is how they baked their flat breads before the advent of pizza.
• . . . because that is how all the Mediterraneans enjoy their flat breads.
• . . . because it helps digestion and does not burden the stomach.

Whatever the case might be, the fact remains that Neapolitans generally like their pizza crusts tender enough not to break apart when they are folded like a book (i.e., "libretto") or a wallet (i.e., "portafoglio"). The 2004 Disciplinare itself is a testimony to this fact:

"La 'Pizza Napoletana' . . . nel suo insieme sarà morbida, elastica, facilmente piegabile a 'libretto'."
(Per the Italian version)

"'Pizza Napoletana' . . . should be soft, elastic, and easily foldable into a 'booklet'."
(Per the translated version)

Several years ago, I heard that a subtle dichotomy had been developing in Naples between those pizzaioli for whom the tenderness of pizza crust was of fundamental value (or even canonical) and those for whom the tenderness was of lesser value. Perhaps, this chasm is signified in the Washington Post article, entitled "Naples, by Pizza Possessed", printed on September 25, 2002. The article depicts the story of a pizza contest in Naples:

"The pizzaiuolo, the pizzamaker, shuffled his feet nervously as he stood by the stern judge. He was defending his pizza’s crust—it was crunchy. Unfortunately for the contestant, crunchy is a no-no in the heartland of pizza. ‘Stupid move,’ the judge said tersely. ‘Why enter a contest of Neapolitan pizza if you can’t make one the right way?’ A hard crust may be something consumers across the globe associate with 21st-century pizza, but here crackle is unthinkable. Chewy is also out. Crust is not even a proper description for the billowy circumference of pizza."

Also, folding a pizza napoletana into a portafoglio or libretto is a traditional manner of consuming the product, like a sandwich, without the aid of any utensils. (President Clinton was served a portafoglio by pizzaiolo Ernesto Cacialli back in 1994: http://www.pizzanapoletana.org/viewnews_eng.php?n=128.) Even with the advent of full-blown pizzerias, pizzas were reportedly served right on marble tables—no plates! Check out the following amazing videos:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiwDz2MfbS0" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiwDz2MfbS0</a>

(See time-marks 1:44 to 2:11)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIdZV6S-VY4" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIdZV6S-VY4</a>

(See time-marks 1:25 to 1:42 & 4:40 to 5:14)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGjT_OuaUWI" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGjT_OuaUWI</a>

Upon watching the tango scene in the movie "Frida" with a Neapolitan friend of mine some years ago, he commented, "Eating pizza napoletana is like dancing tango!" Immediately, I thought to myself, "What a powerful comparison?" Verily, eating Neapolitan pizza is akin to dancing tango with an impassioned woman whose body contour gracefully co-adapts to your movements. You bend her, but she won't break!!!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06u-a5jmi6o" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06u-a5jmi6o</a>

Good day,
Omid

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
1. "Crust" may be deemed by Neapolitan pizzaioli as a misapplication of the concept since it is, by definition, hard, dry, and crisp.

Jet_deck · « **Reply #838 on:** November 12, 2011, 03:03:14 PM »

Quote from: Pizza Napoletana on November 12, 2011, 05:35:48 AM

.... You bend her, but she won't break!!! .....

Good day,
Omid

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

I will forever have this picture on my mind when eating pizza Neapolitana. Who knew that the Tango and a wallet had anything in common with pizza? (aside from you)

Glad you are here.

salvatoregianpaolo · « **Reply #839 on:** November 12, 2011, 04:25:45 PM »

Omid,

Grazie mille!!! Motivating pictures. As always, your posts are enlightening!

Salvatore